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Thread: Warden in ID

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    Champion Synergis's Avatar
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    Default Warden in ID

    Having a discussion in guild today about the yes and no's to bringing a 51 warden into ID for progression. Before the flaming starts im against it. Id rather a 8/8 guild post reason why/whynot. As they've seen all the content the game has to offer. Would you allow a warden to tank heal any bosses in ID? Said person on the other side of the argument claims he can keep the tanks alive on bosses up to 6/8 because his hps is high , and claims that senticar is inferior to 51 warden. Please keep it "constructive" As we need to actually see posts to get to the bottom of it.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Yes ,but only on a couple fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    As an 8/8 player, I'll say that Warden is suboptimal for ID. The type of healing it brings is mostly filler healing (similar to a chloro) but they don't do any dps, nor add raid dps with Wild Growth. Therefore, cleric tank healers are better off as 51 puri or some version of puri/sent to your flavor. From there, they are complimented by 51 chloros to smooth out the spikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    As an 8/8 player, I'll say that Warden is suboptimal for ID. The type of healing it brings is mostly filler healing (similar to a chloro) but they don't do any dps, nor add raid dps with Wild Growth. Therefore, cleric tank healers are better off as 51 puri or some version of puri/sent to your flavor. From there, they are complimented by 51 chloros to smooth out the spikes.
    This x100. From a tank perspective, I'd rather see shields than HoTs. Knowing that the next hit will be for X less dmg... makes me a happy guy. Knowing that after I take a full face punt, some HoT is going to tick? No thanks.
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    Champion Synergis's Avatar
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    Would you find any reason to bring a warden? Outside of what a pruifier could do for tank heals, or a senticar would provide for raid heals?

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    Per WhiteLady's writeup about their raid comp on Ituziel, Special Olympics used a Sent/Ward. All I can think is that at their level, they're trying to find ways to increase the raid difficulty by lowering DPS and HPS as much as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grapesoda View Post
    Per WhiteLady's writeup about their raid comp on Ituziel, Special Olympics used a Sent/Ward. All I can think is that at their level, they're trying to find ways to increase the raid difficulty by lowering DPS and HPS as much as possible.
    Sent/ward is never a superior spec to Senticar in terms of tank healing unless you're keeping up 4 stacks of soothing stream on the tanks. That SO cleric did not play sent/ward in a way that would warrant it as a tank healer. Senticar would have been better for how they played.

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    Prophet of Telara BrownsMageNerfDelivery's Avatar
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    A warden typically brings the sort of heals that are needed to keep a tank topped off consistently throughout the fight. A chloromancer does this just as well (if not better) while providing some extra damage (damage to heals FTW), an energy buff if you need the bard to run competence and Wild Growth for extra DPS.

    As for senticar vs. sent/warden, the bulk of the utility of sent/warden comes from sentinel -- damage reduction cooldown and instant emergency healing cooldowns (TTL and Healer's Haste). I believe our clerics just found it difficult to pass up on the utility of having -icars over wardens because...well, three letters.



    The letters were DoL, by the way.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    I had decided to give 51 Warden a go on Laethys to just see how it performed but the problem I faced was healers topping everyone off immediately before the HoTs could actually be effective. Sure, I was still able to snipe in healing on the Laethys tank and add tank but.. it was honestly useless especially when there was also a DPS requirement and being another full healer was not going to be us make it.

    On Ituziel, even if you did go sent/ward, sub 35% you're going to be spamming healing communion just as a senticar would. As a 51 Warden, you wouldn't be able to cover the heals fast enough. You would have 1 TTL for Healing Cataract, Downpour and Healing Showers. Once those are down, you're not going to be getting everyone topped off as quickly as HC spam from Senticars (and I guess sent/ward if you really wanted to use that..)

    It just doesn't hold a candle to Senticar when you need raid healing and some spot tank healing (those HB/HI really help out.) Anything else, 51 puri or puri/sent like Ahov said.

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    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    As an 8/8 player, I'll say that Warden is suboptimal for ID. The type of healing it brings is mostly filler healing (similar to a chloro) but they don't do any dps, nor add raid dps with Wild Growth. Therefore, cleric tank healers are better off as 51 puri or some version of puri/sent to your flavor. From there, they are complimented by 51 chloros to smooth out the spikes.
    Apart from all this, from a pure healing standpoint a chloro is still more favorable on the tanks due to the faster healing. Soothing Stream will only tick approx every 2 seconds whereas Void Life heals every 1 second. On a lot of fights the speed of the healing is an important factor for the tank's survivability.
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    It isn't just soothing stream that makes sent/ward a better tank healer than senticar.


    There are 3 other HOts that could also be ticking and a tidal surged orbs of the stream is a valuable 45 second cooldown considering that the tank will instantly get back 2-3K hit points when being hit.



    My personal opinion is it may be a matter of gearing, once tanks get more hitpoints/mitigation, using Warden becomes more usefull because it IS easier to heal with it because you aren't as reliant on a 3 second heal. A tipping point may come where you don't have to run as many Purifiers or total healers.
    Last edited by Malark; 06-11-2012 at 04:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malark View Post
    It isn't just soothing stream that makes sent/ward a better tank healer than senticar.


    There are 3 other HOts that could also be ticking and a tidal surged orbs of the stream is a valuable 45 second cooldown considering that the tank will instantly get back 2-3K hit points when being hit.



    My personal opinion is it may be a matter of gearing, once tanks get more hitpoints/mitigation, using Warden becomes more usefull because it IS easier to heal with it because you aren't as reliant on a 3 second heal. A tipping point may come where you don't have to run as many Purifiers or total healers.
    If you're a sent/warden and looking for max HPS you wouldn't even be using those other hots unless you're on the move and forced to...

    Last I tested soothing streamx4 and HI spam was top hps as sent/warden.
    Last edited by Ahov; 06-11-2012 at 04:26 PM.

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    the only thing 51 warden has going for it is orbs and overflow, that and say movement fights with no ability to gain convictions like say grug where everyone is stacked up.

    you have to constantly hot people when you could be doing damage and then when you do need healing its generally too slow.

    for progression i see no reason not to have tank healers being 51 purifiers and chloros with senticars and maybe a inquisicar for raid healing. As you get better gear you try to trim the healing a bit and swap 51 puris with puri/sent, senticars with inquisicars, inquisicars for dps.

    switching to a less effective healing role especially one thats a PITA like 51 warden managing hots all the time simply because your tanks are geared, well that seems kinda odd to me. Id look for ways to trim healing and get more dps.
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    Sword of Telara Calibrex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shieldy View Post
    the only thing 51 warden has going for it is orbs and overflow, that and say movement fights with no ability to gain convictions like say grug where everyone is stacked up.
    how are you not able to build convictions on grug? There is no phase were you will be unable to.
    Where's the Auction House to buy more DPS for my cleric?

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    Plane Touched Bellamorte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calibrex View Post
    how are you not able to build convictions on grug? There is no phase were you will be unable to.
    Exactly....there's always something on grug you can build convictions off of and even if there wasnt you have healing communion.

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