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Thread: For Clerics hating PVP – This might help

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default For Clerics hating PVP – This might help

    The intention to this post is to hopefully bring some enjoyment back into PVP for some Clerics. If you are in a good spot or having fun as a Cleric in PVP then move on to the next post – I want to save those people who are where I was a few weeks ago.

    I am going to give you a little background and my PVP story to cut down on the ‘assumption’ posts that always fly in after someone is trying to help other people in good faith. Skip the next four paragraphs if you can live without the dribble.

    I read the forums all the time but rarely post to them as you can see. I only play the Cleric and do not fully understand the other classes as well as most players do who play several of them. I am not positive if any class is OP because I only play one but do feel that the Devs all play Rogues and Mages. To lower my credibility even more this is only my 3rd MMO over 3 years and the first one that I have PVPd in. I even learned how to tank and heal in this game – What a noob. So it should be obvious that I do not know everything and do not pretend to.

    So I went from R1 to R6 as a straight healer (Ward/Sent). Months went by and many of my PVP friends left over time. Being more comfortable in PVP I started to fool around with –icar builds because I found myself healing strangers in pug groups. Life was very good to me in 1.7. I had found a sweet build that fit my play style perfectly and felt very effective in PVP. Yes, I had to be focused by several players to be brought down but never considered it OP because of the BS bag of tricks (too many to list) that the other three classes get. They really should rename Player vs. Player to Silence vs. Fear in this game.

    Then 1.8 hit. OMG! This did not affect some play styles but it put a serious dent in mine and I was not going to play gimped. I tested all sorts of healing builds – Some were quite good but the ‘fun’ was just not there for me. Then of course I did the proper and mature thing and immediately cancelled my sub. LOL Of course I did all Clerics justice by submitting a good write up with the reasons backed up by feelings. My prepaid sub is not until November so we will see what happens between now and then. I guess that I should also note that I am not on a PVP server and do not go into wf on pre made groups. Probably should tell you that I am full blown everything PVP wise in gear and have 100K PA points.

    Obviously Trion only wants a certain type of healing done in wf – God forbid if someone has to go Chloro or Bard and we lose due to lack of DPS. If you are a straight Cleric healer right now in wf and are happy then you really need to celebrate and understand how lucky you are because many people find it boring to say the least – Me included. You want to run around and pocket heal your friend all night then have fun with that one. 1.8 did bring the greatest gift to all Clerics in PVP – The gift of going DPS or DPS/Healer without the usual ‘you are not healing’ comments that we all heard for months on end.

    I am always testing and changing up builds and I probably suffer some performance from doing that but it is fun for me. If you just want to straight heal and it is not working for you right now then you are probably screwed. However, if you can adapt to a new play style and understand that you can do good DPS and healing at the same time then this might work for you. I have found this spec to be the best rounded one for going DPS/Healer (so far): 45 Inquisitor/11 Justicar/ 10 Sentinel. This spec has serious DPS, nice self-healing, and group healing that does quite well with other healers.

    Positioning and awareness are really important in this build and I am still learning this myself. Stay in the herd or even a little back. Stay close to LOS objects (pop, shoot, hide, heal). One trick I used to do on my tank healer was to run at casters acting like you are melee but actually healing is a bit risky on this one. Spam Vex while on GCD or need to keep moving in case you get some unwanted attention. I have tested full Inquisitor in PVP and found it very effective. Even the full Inquisitor with Justicar is little fragile for me. This build is the perfect balance of DPS and healing (Tried the Puri instead of the Sent but even with the greater essence the 2K shield burns away too fast for getting it every 30 seconds). Anyway, very fun to play and now you do not only watch healing done but damage done and killing blows. A great tip is to take a full Inquisitor and do a bunch of invasions, Instant Adventures or even war fronts. Sound too easy – Then do not use Divine Pardon as a training rule. Then when you change back to this build in wf you will feel much less fragile with your new found survival skills. I also suggest to learn this build in Codex or Whitefall Steppes. Port Scion is not bad either as you can run with the herd. Oh, I am not a huge fan of this in the Library though – I usually go in there as a full healer to carry longer.

    You are going to need a couple of macros here: One to build convictions and one to self-heal. It is that simple and everything else is just cast individually (hopefully via some gamming mouse). Before you leave the game in frustration please give this a shot. This just might turn you around and bring some fun back into PVP for you. Remember that this only has to get you through a major patch or two because it will be all different then anyway and who knows what the new soul will bring to Clerics. I never thought that I would have fun going DPS in war fronts but as it turns out it is just as fun once you adapt to the changes and if you are really lucky then you will be having fun once again.

    One thing to note though: We are all pretty good at playing with a #1 over our heads. I can easily tell from match to match if I am marked or not. What I have found out is that there are just as many people who hunt you after you kill them. So now that you will be doing really good DPS and healing get ready for both types to try and kill you. Also be prepared for more trash talk for when the stars align and you 3 shot someone before they can get close to you. The good news is that you will have the tools to kill them again and again. My very favorite is when someone runs from me and dies from the DOT spells.

    Can you heal as much as a straight healer – Usually not but this often turns the tide.
    Can you DPS as much as a the other classes that are pure DPS – Usually not.
    Can you always have the highest numbers – No but you will always be up there towards the top.
    Will your team will always win – Sometimes the other team does that for you.

    Hopefully some really good players will chime in with better advice and tips on how they play similar builds. I sincerely hope that you all find a place in the new PVP situation. Please tell me if you have tried this build or one like it and it worked or not. I am sure that there are some people who want to be like the guy in Fantastic 4 – Flame On! LOL

    Rossel

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser Silentstorm's Avatar
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    It's good advice but honestly you can't play for a person. It's up to each and everyone of us to learn and adapt. Problem is people don't want to adapt they want easy mode and buffs. Doesn't matter what trion does to my class i will adapt to win. I do want more interactive aspects to my class more choices and souls being viable mind you. But more power or survival doesn't exactly equal a better experience. It just bandaids a flaw in how things are going. But its not a earth shattering time to reroll sitauation either.

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    RIFT Guide Writer usman's Avatar
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    To increase survivability of above spec, get selfish, turn off reparation, equip 3x shield procs. you lose ~100valor but you gain upto 2k in shields per 5s. Surely this is the main reason for taking low justicar in any pvp spec.

    Seems like an important aspect of the build to me and as you didn't mention it, I felt it worth talking about.
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    Sword of Telara Valavus's Avatar
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    I personally think every straight healer should try a Senticar in WF's. When I decided to push ranks again about a month or so ago, I was getting hammered in my regular PvE Senticar..so I crafted a little something beefier.

    I ended up with a 28/27/11 Sent/Just/Inq build. With this little number, I can shrug off a ton of damage.. and still heal the dog crap out of my team.
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    Shadowlander Olumis's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=.... It's up to each and everyone of us to learn and adapt. Problem is people don't want to adapt they want easy mode and buffs. Doesn't matter what trion does to my class i will adapt to win...[/QUOTE]

    I agree. However, my issue is not because I can't adapt... My issue is I do understand the reason(s) why our own devs relented to put us in a dingy cheap Turkish Hammam when the rest of the classes are getting a 5 star Austrian spa treatment.
    Olumis 60 Cleric Laethys
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    You want to run around and pocket heal your friend all night then have fun with that one.
    Sounds like a boring way to play. If this is how people are doing it, no wonder they are bored.

    One of the most important decisions you make as a healer is where to go in the first place. I usually hang back a few seconds at the start to see where everyone is splitting off too and deciding which group to follow. If I choose well I can make a great impact while having a bit of challenging fun. If I choose wrong, I end up with an inglorious and useless death. I find joy in healing strangers and turning the tide of a battle - something any good healer has a chance of accomplishing.

    My advice for healers hating PvP would simply be to adapt and overcome. If you want to heal there are still plenty of effective healing specs to play around with. There is also the possibility of improving your play with Wardens. Stacking HoTs were strong enough before 1.8 that we didn't have to use all of the tools at our disposal to be effective. Making better use of the Orbs can go a long way into making up for the loss of HoT effectiveness.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olumis View Post
    I agree. However, my issue is not because I can't adapt... My issue is I do understand the reason(s) why our own devs relented to put us in a dingy cheap Turkish Hammam when the rest of the classes are getting a 5 star Austrian spa treatment.
    Try playing a low rank mage. There is little to no joy there. My main is a mage, and there is a good reason I am currently PvPing with my healing Cleric rather than the mage.

  8. #8
    Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by usman View Post
    To increase survivability of above spec, get selfish, turn off reparation, equip 3x shield procs. you lose ~100valor but you gain upto 2k in shields per 5s. Surely this is the main reason for taking low justicar in any pvp spec.

    Seems like an important aspect of the build to me and as you didn't mention it, I felt it worth talking about.
    Actually, one could argue that the drastic increase you would get in survivability with this strategy would lend a great deal more support to your team. Staying alive to ba able to toss out alot more dol's is most likely much better than some reparation heals but dying quickly

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Default hrm?

    I have a lvl 36 cleric running senticar. Was in a Whitefall match, with 4 other clerics, all of which running dps. A twink started complaining about how no cleric was healing, when i told him to check the boards (100k heals atm) he told me that DoL spamming is not healing, and i need to switch specs. Does this happen often?
    IM BACK!

  10. #10
    Ascendant Pesmergia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valavus View Post
    I personally think every straight healer should try a Senticar in WF's. When I decided to push ranks again about a month or so ago, I was getting hammered in my regular PvE Senticar..so I crafted a little something beefier.

    I ended up with a 28/27/11 Sent/Just/Inq build. With this little number, I can shrug off a ton of damage.. and still heal the dog crap out of my team.
    I've played every healing variant, nothing comes close to 38WARDEN/28SENT.

    Senticar is a "you survive but your team dies" build, tried it, no single target burst healing. Convictions are a waste of a gcd.
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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesmergia View Post
    I've played every healing variant, nothing comes close to 38WARDEN/28SENT.

    Senticar is a "you survive but your team dies" build, tried it, no single target burst healing. Convictions are a waste of a gcd.
    So wrong. Healing breath + Healing invocation or Touch The Light + Healing Invocation.


    What do you think you're doing when you have a sent/ward spec? Do you spam Soothing Stream and hope you "single target burst heal" someone or something? Or do you use Healing Invocation to top them off?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    So wrong. Healing breath + Healing invocation or Touch The Light + Healing Invocation.


    What do you think you're doing when you have a sent/ward spec? Do you spam Soothing Stream and hope you "single target burst heal" someone or something? Or do you use Healing Invocation to top them off?
    You do realize that 38/28 Ward/Sent has Healing Breath and Healing Invocation as well, do you not? You can throw in a beefed-up instant-cast Orb of the Tide to the rotation when the pressure is on for three procs of OGC AoE healing to help your team get through the pressure.

    Healing Showers is also a useful option for "Oh ****!" moments. warden AoE healing doesn't keep focused targets up, but if they are up they will certainly help your ST efforts.

    I've switched back and forth from 38/28 Ward/Sent to Sent/Ward. Both are excellent specs, tjough the Sent/Ward is somewhat easier to play.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    You do realize that 38/28 Ward/Sent has Healing Breath and Healing Invocation as well, do you not? You can throw in a beefed-up instant-cast Orb of the Tide to the rotation when the pressure is on for three procs of OGC AoE healing to help your team get through the pressure.

    Healing Showers is also a useful option for "Oh ****!" moments. warden AoE healing doesn't keep focused targets up, but if they are up they will certainly help your ST efforts.

    I've switched back and forth from 38/28 Ward/Sent to Sent/Ward. Both are excellent specs, tjough the Sent/Ward is somewhat easier to play.
    You're stating senticar does not have ST burst heal.
    He answers you it's wrong since it has almost the same tools than warden for that.
    Now you're talking about orb of the tide and healing showers, what the hell ?

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    So wrong. Healing breath + Healing invocation or Touch The Light + Healing Invocation.


    What do you think you're doing when you have a sent/ward spec? Do you spam Soothing Stream and hope you "single target burst heal" someone or something? Or do you use Healing Invocation to top them off?
    I think it all depends what your "Senticar" build looks like, to determine if it can put out ST heals like a Sent/Ward will. Any Sentinel build without 12 points in Warden for Healing Flood is not going to get as many Serendipity procs, and thus have slower (effectively weaker) ST healing. Sure DoL will probably get you one proc, but you had to use a GCD to do that, and it was just one proc. Healing Flood or Ripple + SS (or even better, both) will usually get you more than 1 proc, and you don't have to spend GCDs attacking people to get convictions for DoL.

    Both builds obviously have the standard "oh ****" option of TtL, but healers in PvP usually have a lot more than one "oh ****" moment every 45s.

    A strong PUG team will have at least two healers -- one with lots of "oh ****" tools (aka ST Healer), to keep a person alive through a reasonable amount of FF (at a certain point, nothing can be done to stop a death), and one with good AoE heals, like from Justicar, Bard, or Chloromancer. In general, I'd rather have more AoE healers than ST healers, but if I had to pick just one I'd take the ST healer.
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  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valavus View Post
    I personally think every straight healer should try a Senticar in WF's. When I decided to push ranks again about a month or so ago, I was getting hammered in my regular PvE Senticar..so I crafted a little something beefier.

    I ended up with a 28/27/11 Sent/Just/Inq build. With this little number, I can shrug off a ton of damage.. and still heal the dog crap out of my team.
    Switch out that 11inq with 11ward and you'll be in business. Warden insta casts, plus the passive healing bonus are where it's at. You'll have more serendipity procs, your instant cast heals improve by 15% and you get a 8 sec immunity to snare, root, etc.

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