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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Why has 33+ Points in Sentinel Been Left as Bad for so Long?

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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Default Why has 33+ Points in Sentinel Been Left as Bad for so Long?

    Why has 33+ Points in Sentinel Been Left as Bad for so Long? Title of the thread says it all. There's a big reason why Senticar, Puri-sent and Warden-sent all stop at 32 points. I get that not every soul can be optimal, but why has Sentinel been left with bad abilities for so long?

    Issues with Sentinel Abilities that need improvement:

    Marked by Light - range on the additoinal heal is too short, amount too low, why waste a GCD on such a small heal
    Vigilence - for what it does it should have a shorter CD
    Shared Recovery - ok, it's a pvp ability that gets reduced to insta cast with serendipity but it's still near useless in pve
    Lasting Invocation - needs to be buffed, considering this is 5 points spent on the core heal you'd expect more

    Buff these abilities and maybe... just maybe Sentinel will not be useless. Without a ward applied after healing invocation (like puri) probably not but hey, it won't be as bad.

    Other possible additions to help higher Sentinel:
    - shared recovery healing increase, it would give upper sentinel another possible insta cast tank heal that no other build gets
    - lasting invocation, double amount over 4 seconds
    - change marked by light into a passive with the same effect without needing a recast, increase range
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Why has 33+ Points in Sentinel Been Left as Bad for so Long? Title of the thread says it all. There's a big reason why Senticar, Puri-sent and Warden-sent all stop at 32 points. I get that not every soul can be optimal, but why has Sentinel been left with bad abilities for so long?

    Issues with Sentinel Abilities that need improvement:

    Marked by Light - range on the additoinal heal is too short, amount too low, why waste a GCD on such a small heal
    Vigilence - for what it does it should have a shorter CD
    Shared Recovery - ok, it's a pvp ability that gets reduced to insta cast with serendipity but it's still near useless in pve
    Lasting Invocation - needs to be buffed, considering this is 5 points spent on the core heal you'd expect more

    Buff these abilities and maybe... just maybe Sentinel will not be useless. Without a ward applied after healing invocation (like puri) probably not but hey, it won't be as bad.

    Other possible additions to help higher Sentinel:
    - shared recovery healing increase, it would give upper sentinel another possible insta cast tank heal that no other build gets
    - lasting invocation, double amount over 4 seconds
    - change marked by light into a passive with the same effect without needing a recast, increase range
    Marked by the light is off the GCD from the last time I tested it

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    RIFT Guide Writer Sebb's Avatar
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    Rift has a strange desire to not let players have too much flexibility. It seems like they view the cookie cutter specs as a leash, and are afraid that letting go will make them lose control.

    Look at high levels of many trees and you will see the same. For some classes, entire trees are dead.
    Seb - R40 OP PVP Warrior
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    Rift Chaser efitall's Avatar
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    I'm not sure where you're getting that it's "bad". I pretty consistently stat 33-34 sent in my PvP raid healing spec. The AoE radius increases, Healing bonuses, and auto-shields alone make Sent super-handy in PvP, not to mention that it's hands-down the least mana-draining soul for spam-casting AoE heals on a group (which is essential when you're being bombarded by a bunch of mages that are out of range). I also use heavy sent in my senticar spec so I can work as a temp fill-in for a downed healer during PvE progression.

    No, my builds aren't cookie-cutter. No, you won't find them on a list anywhere or in any guide. The only other people you'll see using them are people who've asked me for them, then fell in love with them.

    You won't find me topping the charts on HPS in warfronts or raids, but I do keep more people alive and have less mana trouble than my super-HPS-dealing counter-parts. To me, that's my job - to keep my team alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebb View Post
    Rift has a strange desire to not let players have too much flexibility. It seems like they view the cookie cutter specs as a leash, and are afraid that letting go will make them lose control.

    Look at high levels of many trees and you will see the same. For some classes, entire trees are dead.
    Souls become dead because people Max/Min. If all souls were 100% equal we'd only have 1 soul. The minute people figure out the optimal spec that's what everyone picks and says the others are crap.

    In this case though...it might be right hehe
    Rallick - HE Cleric

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    RIFT Guide Writer Sebb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallock View Post
    Souls become dead because people Max/Min. If all souls were 100% equal we'd only have 1 soul. The minute people figure out the optimal spec that's what everyone picks and says the others are crap.

    In this case though...it might be right hehe

    It's a little bit of a catch-22. Min maxing is only relevant when the different in measure significantly outweighs he benefits gained by breaking that trend. Situational utility can more than make up for small HPS differences.

    Look at the 51 puri/15sent and compare to 44puri/22sent. What's the trade off? You get smaller RF/shields, no conflag. Instead you get HC and AOE cleanse. If you are running a 10 man, the the 44 build is actually pretty good because utility gets a higher premium in a 10 man scenario. If HC were a 1 min CD, I think you'd see more of this variant.

    The above case is where purifier is a well designed tree. It's hard to say the same about sentinel. There is not a huge utility gain in going to higher sent to compensate for all that you would lose in the 20 points of puri or warden. At least IMO.
    Seb - R40 OP PVP Warrior
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    New WF Idea for Rift
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    Especially with how hard stuff hits in ID, I don't see Sentinel making a comeback even if they redesign those abilities. The fact that there are no shields with Sentinel and its a pure HPS type of tree, it isn't TOO useful in tank healing. Low end Sentinel is only good because of the modifiers it helps to make other trees better, but high end Sentinel would need a major overhaul to make it anywhere near worthwhile. Side note, Vigilence has got to be one of the most useless abilities ever. Such a long CD for an ability that requires such specific conditions to occur.

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    MNM
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    Vigilence is the 10 second version of latent blaze right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MNM View Post
    Vigilence is the 10 second version of latent blaze right?
    Yep, it is all kinds of bad.

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    I think the reason something like a 51 sent build gets overlooked so much is that Preventative healing > Reactive healing. 51 puri brings too much to the table that makes it far better in a raid environment.

    A 51 sent may be good in tandem with something like a puri on a fight like ituziel where you need mitigation and the ability to get a tank back up to full quickly. But like a number of our souls, high point builds need a great deal of tuning and have a great many abilities that really aren't that good.

    Marked by Light would actually see some benefit from having a short CD added to it, since it is off the gcd, it could then be macro'd (not that I'm advocating mindless spamming) on top of Healing Invo to add some decent raid healing on certain fights. Though this could be a huge mana sink.

    Vigilance should honestly be a complete heal, something akin to a Disc Priest Guardian spirit.

    I wouldn't mind seeing shared recovery be something of an intermediate fast heal.

    Healing benediction should have its cd/mana cost reduced based on how much it heals. Its no where near as good as downpour and has twice the cd length.


    And bluelight, wtf yo? You go super casual?

  11. #11
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    Deep Sentinel as a senticar has a place and is very popular. 51 Sentinel is just bad, but 33+ sentinel with justicar and inquisitor is very good and very relevant to the current content.

    We oten use a deep sentinel as senticar for our raids. It doesn't have the benefit of Light makes Right but does have stronger single target healing if needed and higher ranged dps and just as strong raid healing compared to the classic double battlerez Senticar.
    Last edited by aLittleBird; 06-06-2012 at 06:50 AM.
    Undecided! P90 Cleric | 9/9 FT-EE | 4/4 GA | 3/3 IG | 5/5 PB | BoB 2/4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Marked by the light is off the GCD from the last time I tested it
    Doesn't change the fact that its awful.

    GSB Conq/ROS Conq/HK Conq/ID Conq
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    <snip> The fact that there are no shields with Sentinel and its a pure HPS type of tree, it isn't TOO useful in tank healing. <snip>
    There are shields in Sent, they're just not target cast (they pop up on their own when you AoE heal). Also - sent is a raid heal spec, not a tank heal spec. Trying to use Sent to tank heal will make it look all kinds of fail - it was never intended for deep Sent to be a tank heal spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by aLittleBird View Post
    Deep Sentinel as a senticar has a place and is very popular. 51 Sentinel is just bad, but 33+ sentinel with justicar and inquisitor is very good and very relevant to the current content.

    We oten use a deep sentinel as senticar for our raids. It doesn't have the benefit of Light makes Right but does have stronger single target healing if needed and higher ranged dps and just as strong raid healing compared to the classic double battlerez Senticar.
    Exactly. Plus you don't have the mana issues some other builds have when you need to throw out some extra AoE heals.

    Not sure I understand the point of a senticar build without reparation, but if it works for you guys, go for it.




    And... PvP. PvP PvP PvP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Synergis View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that its awful.
    RE: Marked by the light
    As for whether it's on GCD or not I don't know, but it lasts 5min... throw it on 'em before the fight starts and forget about it.

    Has about the same utility as bubbles in Warden. +HP is +HP... +HP with no cast is even better. If you're statting deep in Sent anyway, you may as well throw it on them.

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    51 Sentinel actually isn't that bad, but ...

    The problem is that 33 sentinel combines so well with Purifier or WArden. Both ways you go it tends to work out better. The reason is the way the crystals were designed and how damage works in the game.


    Two things really make the combination work with Purifer, the 7% mitigation bonus and surging flames. Arguably better than 5% aoe heals and 10% more healing on single target life spells. With Warden, there's things like mana regen, orb, stacking hot, and the crystal gives a blanket 15% boost on it all and another 5% on the main hot. Basically even if healing invocation is healing for 2K more at the base, it's not enough of a hit compared to hybrid builds.


    I'm not sure what Trion could do about it, something to reduce the cast time of Healing Communion maybe, have healing benediction work on 10 targets, delete shared recovery... I dunno.. either way nothing is going to happen.

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