Why has 33+ Points in Sentinel Been Left as Bad for so Long?

[Bowler Hat]

You cannot die with Vigilance.

Thanks for the update Zinbik however I am very surprised that it's taken this long for this rather important snippet of information to come to light. Reading the tooltip again I can see now that there is a hint that the ability might act in this manner, but it's far from clear.

I suppose we as a community could have done more testing and theorycrafting and this would have been brought to light sooner, however I think the real issue are the lacklustre ability tooltips.

Can you give us any more information about how this works? I'm guessing there is no ICD and it can proc multiple times per second? I'm curious how this will look in the combatlog.

oh, more role & macro slots FTW!

[Bowler Hat]

Well it's good the dev posted, plus secret stuff? Maybe there are already changes incoming down the pipeline, or with the level increase it will go from 51 to 60 points per tree and Sentinel will be getting something nice?

There are ALWAYS changes incoming down the pipeline, and Zinbik has already dropped hints that Sentinel will eventually get some love.

"Secret Stuff" will be related to the upcoming expansion. I saw a peek of a behemoth on an E3 stream earlier, it looks awesome!

[Noshei]

Can you give us any more information about how this works? I'm guessing there is no ICD and it can proc multiple times per second? I'm curious how this will look in the combatlog.

oh, more role & macro slots FTW!

I think you might be forgetting a few things about the ability. Firstly it only lasts 10 seconds (at the most), second it is a 2 minute cd.

I just tested and it is consumed when it heals, no matter the amount of time left on it. So it is just a one trick pony. Though this can obviously be rotated with other abilities (HC) to give you the ability to basically negate a mechanic every minute (Word comes to mind or kick).

I still find the ability to be very lackluster in how it functions. Not to mention the obviously lacking tool tip that doesn't even tell us it works as a 'charge' mechanic like warden orbs do. Side note here on ****ty tool tips Marked by the Light is also lacking the same information that is is a 'charge' ability, would be great (tons of sarcasm) if the tool tips actually gave us some decent information about our abilities. There is a little thing known as oversimplification, in which the attempt to make something simpler actually results in it appearing more complicated and obscure. (and another tool tip side not, GIVE US BACK OUR USEFUL TOOL TIPS!!!!!!!!!!)

[Bowler Hat]

I think you might be forgetting a few things about the ability. Firstly it only lasts 10 seconds (at the most), second it is a 2 minute cd.

Not forgetting; confused perhaps. The duration and the cooldown are probably the only things I definitely understand

I just tested and it is consumed when it heals, no matter the amount of time left on it. So it is just a one trick pony. Though this can obviously be rotated with other abilities (HC) to give you the ability to basically negate a mechanic every minute (Word comes to mind or kick).

Forgetting how we might use it for a moment, I'm trying to understand how it works (I don't have a free role for testing and its not too convenient to be mucking around with my roles right now). Given it states it heals for a certain amount, and given we "cannot die" regardless of the damage we are about to receive, I want to know how the combat log looks when Vigilance saves our bacon.

Let's say we are about to receive a 30k unmitigated hit with Vigilance active, what happens? Presumably we suddenly mitigate a whopping chunk of that, leaving us with the Vigilance heal amount +1 HP, I'm guessing this is shown as an absorb?

I didn't realise it was consumed on first use, which is why I asked about the ICD. I wasn't sure if it bought you 10 seconds of invicibility or not. I guess that would be rather OP

I still find the ability to be very lackluster in how it functions. Not to mention the obviously lacking tool tip that doesn't even tell us it works as a 'charge' mechanic like warden orbs do. Side note here on ****ty tool tips Marked by the Light is also lacking the same information that is is a 'charge' ability, would be great (tons of sarcasm) if the tool tips actually gave us some decent information about our abilities. There is a little thing known as oversimplification, in which the attempt to make something simpler actually results in it appearing more complicated and obscure. (and another tool tip side not, GIVE US BACK OUR USEFUL TOOL TIPS!!!!!!!!!!)

Totally agree on the tooltips, particulalry Marked by the Light which has been a hot topic of late. I suspect a lot of people commenting on it have no idea that it's consumed either, I think it's 5 charges before you refresh the buff?

Even with Zinbik advising us what the Vigilance ability can do, the tooltip still makes things far from clear. The buff being consumed on use makes things much clearer now.

[Mayi]

There are ALWAYS changes incoming down the pipeline, and Zinbik has already dropped hints that Sentinel will eventually get some love.

"Secret Stuff" will be related to the upcoming expansion. I saw a peek of a behemoth on an E3 stream earlier, it looks awesome!

I doubt it, devs have already released that they will be changing around the soul trees with the level increase. As a guess, I'd say 61 points per tree with 80 points to spend (sticking with their current format).

Either way thread served a purpose. Feedback was given on the strength of the Sentinel soul which they will hopefully take into account when doing changes.

[Noshei]

Let's say we are about to receive a 30k unmitigated hit with Vigilance active, what happens? Presumably we suddenly mitigate a whopping chunk of that, leaving us with the Vigilance heal amount +1 HP, I'm guessing this is shown as an absorb?

So I decided to take a chance on the tool tip actually being correct in how the ability functions (Crazy, I know) and test this by jumping off a really high point (the mountain behind granite falls, and no I didn't land in the water). Very surprisingly the ability did act as I expected, it healed me and kept me alive. I guessed it would work with fall damage because it doesn't indicate that the manner in which your health has to drop below 20% (i.e. from an attacker).

So here is the log lines from this.

10:45:40: ( 6 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 0 , 430046198 , Vigilance ) Noshei gains Noshei's Vigilance.
10:45:41: ( 7 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 0 , 430046198 , Vigilance ) Noshei's Vigilance fades from Noshei.
10:45:41: ( 14 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 4484 , 316931269 , Falling Damage ) Noshei takes 4484 damage from Falling Damage. (1122 ignored)
10:45:41: ( 5 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 2593 , 430046198 , Vigilance ) Noshei's Vigilance heals Noshei for 2593.

Now how this actually ended up working in practice is very interesting. For a fall the max amount of damage you can take is equal to your current max HP. In this case I had 5606 HP. So when I hit the ground I should have died, but what really happened is that Vigilance kicked in and actually ignored the damage that would have pushed me below 20%. It then applied the heal. This resulted in me taking a net amount of damage of 1,891.

If Vigilance didn't have the heal, I would have landed with exactly 20% of my HP (1122 HP). This is very interesting and significantly different from the explanation that zinbik provided. He said that you could take 1 million dmg and you would live with 1 HP + the amount healed by Vigilance. This compares to my test which resulted in my having 20% max HP + amount healed. That is a huge difference in the function of the ability. So I'm hoping that zinbik misspoke with his explanation, though I would bet on this being a bug.

I'll get more testing with actual incoming damage and post back here.

oh yeah, hey zinbik, if this is a bug, just leave it alone man. This ability is way better this way.


*Edit* Also, if you apply the ability when the target is below 20% it will just automatically heal them and go away. So it's not really that great as an 'oh crap' CD, it's more of an 'I know bad **** is coming' CD.

[Sebb]

I was not aware of Vigilance' effect. I believe it's now time for a battery of tests to see which mechanics we can now ignore

One tank Ituzial.

Would work because of the CD, but could be a fun prank on the raid.

[Noshei]

One tank Ituzial.

yeah if only for that darn stun and toughness reduction...

[Mayi]

yeah if only for that darn stun and toughness reduction...

I wouldn't get too excited, it's a 2 minute cooldown ability. All Sentinel would bring to a raid would be highest potential hps/largest heal with no damage mitigation. Sentinel would be good if health pools were 50% larger, but they aren't... and damage comes in big spikes.

[Noshei]

I wouldn't get too excited, it's a 2 minute cooldown ability. All Sentinel would bring to a raid would be highest potential hps/largest heal with no damage mitigation. Sentinel would be good if health pools were 50% larger, but they aren't... and damage comes in big spikes.

yeah sarcasm isn't conveyed all that great in text...

[usman]

Consider the Orb of Crystaline Desolation on Maklamos the Skryer.

One player (whom you can pre-determine by pushing everyone else into close range) is going to receive a huge predictable hit, perfect for Vigilance.

Suppose said player has 6k HP's. Orb is floating towards and you protect him with Vigilance, the orb will hit and knock him back to 20% HP's, all the excess damage will be 'ignored' and then Vigilance will heal him back to almost full HP's again if it crits. (flashover). No need for other players to soak damage, no need for raid healing. 44/22 Sent/puri looks attractive now for this fight.

[No_Exit]

Consider the Orb of Crystaline Desolation on Maklamos the Skryer.

One player (whom you can pre-determine by pushing everyone else into close range) is going to receive a huge predictable hit, perfect for Vigilance.

Suppose said player has 6k HP's. Orb is floating towards and you protect him with Vigilance, the orb will hit and knock him back to 20% HP's, all the excess damage will be 'ignored' and then Vigilance will heal him back to almost full HP's again if it crits. (flashover). No need for other players to soak damage, no need for raid healing. 44/22 Sent/puri looks attractive now for this fight.

You simply dont need or want a 51 or even 44 Sent in the current raid environment for the vast majority of fights. And since even with rotating HC and Vig your only able to CD once every minute... its still not fast enough to solo CD a fight for the most part although it "could" possibly work on Mak. Then again.. the Mak fight is still fubar atm and your better off just using a tank to take it and forget the need for extra CD's.

Throw in the fact that the nature of the health pools plus nature of the damage in this game makes Sentinel healing secondary to Puri healing most of the time... and its just not viable for most clerics to carry a high sent build.

[Zinbik]

So I decided to take a chance on the tool tip actually being correct in how the ability functions (Crazy, I know) and test this by jumping off a really high point (the mountain behind granite falls, and no I didn't land in the water). Very surprisingly the ability did act as I expected, it healed me and kept me alive. I guessed it would work with fall damage because it doesn't indicate that the manner in which your health has to drop below 20% (i.e. from an attacker).

So here is the log lines from this.

10:45:40: ( 6 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 0 , 430046198 , Vigilance ) Noshei gains Noshei's Vigilance.
10:45:41: ( 7 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 0 , 430046198 , Vigilance ) Noshei's Vigilance fades from Noshei.
10:45:41: ( 14 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 4484 , 316931269 , Falling Damage ) Noshei takes 4484 damage from Falling Damage. (1122 ignored)
10:45:41: ( 5 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 2593 , 430046198 , Vigilance ) Noshei's Vigilance heals Noshei for 2593.

Now how this actually ended up working in practice is very interesting. For a fall the max amount of damage you can take is equal to your current max HP. In this case I had 5606 HP. So when I hit the ground I should have died, but what really happened is that Vigilance kicked in and actually ignored the damage that would have pushed me below 20%. It then applied the heal. This resulted in me taking a net amount of damage of 1,891.

If Vigilance didn't have the heal, I would have landed with exactly 20% of my HP (1122 HP). This is very interesting and significantly different from the explanation that zinbik provided. He said that you could take 1 million dmg and you would live with 1 HP + the amount healed by Vigilance. This compares to my test which resulted in my having 20% max HP + amount healed. That is a huge difference in the function of the ability. So I'm hoping that zinbik misspoke with his explanation, though I would bet on this being a bug.

I'll get more testing with actual incoming damage and post back here.

oh yeah, hey zinbik, if this is a bug, just leave it alone man. This ability is way better this way.


*Edit* Also, if you apply the ability when the target is below 20% it will just automatically heal them and go away. So it's not really that great as an 'oh crap' CD, it's more of an 'I know bad **** is coming' CD.

Gah, of course, the one time I say something without checking first to make absolutely certain... Anyway, it's not a bug. Just too many things to hold in my head to speak with total confidence out of memory.

[Bowler Hat]

10:45:40: ( 6 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 0 , 430046198 , Vigilance ) Noshei gains Noshei's Vigilance.
10:45:41: ( 7 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 0 , 430046198 , Vigilance ) Noshei's Vigilance fades from Noshei.
10:45:41: ( 14 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 4484 , 316931269 , Falling Damage ) Noshei takes 4484 damage from alling Damage. (1122 ignored)
10:45:41: ( 5 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=P#R=C#218424582445204150 , T=X#R=X#0 , T=X#R=X#0 , Noshei , Noshei , 2593 , 430046198 , Vigilance ) Noshei's Vigilance heals Noshei for 2593.

Now how this actually ended up working in practice is very interesting. For a fall the max amount of damage you can take is equal to your current max HP. In this case I had 5606 HP. So when I hit the ground I should have died, but what really happened is that Vigilance kicked in and actually ignored the damage that would have pushed me below 20%. It then applied the heal. This resulted in me taking a net amount of damage of 1,891.

Well I don't think I've come across "ignored" in the combat log before. Either way this 20% of HP plus the Vigilance heal is a surprising result. hmmmm

[Primalthirst]

That is an amazing ability.
The way it functions is not even vaguely mentioned in the tooltip.
Perhaps we could get better tooltips, or our old ones back...

Now to make deep Sent viable they just need to add a mechanic that is guaranteed to hit for like 10000% of a tanks hp in Primeval Feast and voila, Deep Sent is now needed! That or everyone just stacks Riftstalkers..