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Thread: Tired of this

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Tired of this

    I am tired of Cleric getting knocked down another notch ever patch. I am tired of falling behind on DPS while everyone else gets a boost. My Cleric does 1500DPS when my simularly geared (refering to this in the past) Warrior was doing 2100 DPS.
    Why can't this game just make it simple for those of us who want nothing to do with healing.

    It would be nothing to take the Mein buffs and make them specific to the trees they want to be used for. (i.e.)

    Mein of Agression (MoA): Linked to DPS trees -- Shaman, Druid, Inquistor, Cabalist,

    Mein of Leadership (MoL): Linked to Tanking tree -- Justicar

    Mein of Honor (MoH): Linked to Healing trees -- Purifier, Warden, Sent

    For every point put into the tree that it is linked with the buff should have a simple equation to the percentage of the effect it grants. (p=points dedicated to the tree)

    For MoA/MoH: p/66*100= percentage of the buffs full effect generated.
    For MoL: p/51*100= percentage of the buffs full effect generated. MoL would be a differant value since there is only one tanking tree, and only 51 points that can be spent in it.

    This ofcourse would probably eliminate most of (if not all) the DoL raid heal specs, but a healer should not need to throw up 1-2k DPS. This would also allow for those of us that want to DPS to be able to DPS without all the slack jaw scaling we are recieving!

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedoc92 View Post
    Why can't this game just make it simple for those of us who want nothing to do with healing.
    They have, there is is three perfectly fine souls to choose from it you would like to dps.

    If you picked the cleric soul without knowing that going into it that it was THE healing class, then its not Trions fault.That said I see no reason why we should be this far behind in dps, yes we can heal but why should that gimp our pure dps roles. I know I'm not alone when I say that I don't think clerics should be beating Rogues warriors or Mages in dps, but at least make it competitive.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Clerics dont need to beat rogues as rogues dont need to out tank warriors.

    We need change!!!
    Last edited by Maedoc92; 06-01-2012 at 11:26 AM.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedoc92 View Post
    Clerics dont need to beat rogues as rogues dont need to out tank warriors.

    We need change!!!
    I agree. Just like mages don't need to out heal clerics.

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara
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    Well clerics need a a-la warrior rework to make em work and have all the souls scale properly.
    Cabalist getting a dot buff wouldnt be bad at all as well. Might even open the way to some slightly more complex and potent DPS spec combos

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haptiic View Post
    They have, there is is three perfectly fine souls to choose from it you would like to dps.

    If you picked the cleric soul without knowing that going into it that it was THE healing class, then its not Trions fault.That said I see no reason why we should be this far behind in dps, yes we can heal but why should that gimp our pure dps roles. I know I'm not alone when I say that I don't think clerics should be beating Rogues warriors or Mages in dps, but at least make it competitive.
    Too bad the game designers have themselves said it does not work the way you say it does.

    Since according to you mages are a DPS class I guess their healing needs a mega nerf then. And according to you warriors are tanks so they need a DPS nerf too. Oh and Rogues need a tank and healing nerf.

    Hey look, now we are playing EverQuest and not Rift!!
    I kill more players than anyone! Just ask the last raid that asked me to heal!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I wanted to come out and say the following pretty definitively: There is no goal to make DPS clerics that DPS do less damage than other callings.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Well then Ivengar, what do you sudgest? I am open for options....

    Simple fact is that cleric DPS has been the worst thing to spec into since the game started. We had a small reprieve when MoA came out, then it was back to the dumps.

    Mages = good DPS, good Healing, good support
    Rogues = good DPS, good Support, decient tanking
    Warriors = good Tanking, good DPS
    Clerics = good Healing, poor DPS, poor Tanking
    I refuse to comment on Clerics as a support class because all they do is raid heal. No buffs/debuffs wothwhile i wont call it support.

    There is most something wrong with this picture. So why not stop trolling and give us your idea...!
    Last edited by Maedoc92; 06-01-2012 at 12:33 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedoc92 View Post
    Well then Ivengar, what do you sudgest? I am open for options....

    Simple fact is that cleric DPS has been the worst thing to spec into since the game started. We had a small reprieve when MoA came out, then it was back to the dumps.

    Mages = good DPS, good Healing, good support
    Rogues = good DPS, good Support, decient tanking
    Warriors = good Tanking, good DPS
    Clerics = good Healing, poor DPS, poor Tanking
    I refuse to comment on Clerics as a support class because all they do is raid heal. No buffs/debuffs wothwhile i wont call it support.

    There is most something wrong with this picture. So why not stop trolling and give us your idea...!
    How are clerics poor tanks? They do well in all content now. Also, they are good tank healers where as you say
    all they is raid heal
    I realize it was referring to us as a support "class".

  9. #9
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedoc92 View Post
    Well then Ivengar, what do you sudgest? I am open for options....

    Simple fact is that cleric DPS has been the worst thing to spec into since the game started. We had a small reprieve when MoA came out, then it was back to the dumps.

    Mages = good DPS, good Healing, good support
    Rogues = good DPS, good Support, decient tanking
    Warriors = good Tanking, good DPS
    Clerics = good Healing, poor DPS, poor Tanking
    I refuse to comment on Clerics as a support class because all they do is raid heal. No buffs/debuffs wothwhile i wont call it support.

    There is most something wrong with this picture. So why not stop trolling and give us your idea...!
    You know I quoted Haptiic and not you right? His post is about how Cleric is "The Healing Spec" when Trion has on a number of times said that is not the case. The game is built so that each roll can do 3 of 4 things well. Haptiic was bring old MMO's way of thinking into an MMO which is trying to be different.

    There is no Tank class, there are 3 classes that can tank.
    There is no DPS class, there are 4 classes that can DPS.
    There is no Heal class, there are 3 classes that can HEAL.
    THere is no Utility/Buff class, there are 2 classes that can Buff/Utillity.

    You cant use EQ/UO/WOW class structures here as this game only has 4 classes.

    I will say it again. Rift only has "4" classes. And those 4 classes have a number of roles.

    Warrior: Tank, DPS
    Rogue: Tank, DPS, Utility-heal
    Mage: DPS, Utillity, Heal
    Cleric: Tank, DPS, Heal

    Now you could break down DPS into Mele, Range and AOE.
    And you can break down healing into Raid and Tank.

    I could then go on for a few pages more going into full detail but this has already been done a 100 times on this forum.

    In the end when you compare same geared players with same skill clerics are LAST in DPS on near last on any way you parse DPS.

    Cleric are the best tank healers in the game but mages CAN tank heal through 90% of the games content AND they do better DPS than a cleric.

    Clerics can raid heal and DOL is one of if not the BEST raid heal spell in the game you dont HAVE to have it.

    Yes you can have 6 clerics in a raid and still progress but that doesn't mean its the best way to do it. Having 6 of any of the other 3 classes on the other hand is most like the better way to go.

    A perfect raid would not have more than 3 clerics. 2 if your mages are really good.

    Name me an other class where you would not want more than 2 of on a raid if everyone played at their best?
    I kill more players than anyone! Just ask the last raid that asked me to heal!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I wanted to come out and say the following pretty definitively: There is no goal to make DPS clerics that DPS do less damage than other callings.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedoc92 View Post

    Mein of Agression (MoA): Linked to DPS trees -- Shaman, Druid, Inquistor, Cabalist,

    Mein of Leadership (MoL): Linked to Tanking tree -- Justicar

    Mein of Honor (MoH): Linked to Healing trees -- Purifier, Warden, Sent

    For every point put into the tree that it is linked with the buff should have a simple equation to the percentage of the effect it grants. (p=points dedicated to the tree)

    For MoA/MoH: p/66*100= percentage of the buffs full effect generated.
    For MoL: p/51*100= percentage of the buffs full effect generated. MoL would be a differant value since there is only one tanking tree, and only 51 points that can be spent in it.
    Speaking as a warrior, those static buffs basically kill any synergy. Any points you're putting into a tank tree hurt dps and vice versa. Want to try DPS tanking? You can't because you lose a ton of HP and mitigation as soon as you put any points in a non-tank tree.

    Things like *icar builds would lose a SIGNIFICANT amount of both dps and healing. Basically, you can go full DPS with zero healing, full healing and zero dps, or tank. The in-between stuff suffers very badly.

    If you don't like the ability to heal while DPSing, you should go back to your warrior.
    Last edited by Carinae; 06-01-2012 at 01:22 PM.
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  11. #11
    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carinae View Post
    If you don't like the ability to heal while DPSing, you should go back to your warrior.
    Or better yet, go back to playing a different game.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara BrownsMageNerfDelivery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedoc92 View Post
    I am tired of Cleric getting knocked down another notch ever patch. I am tired of falling behind on DPS while everyone else gets a boost. My Cleric does 1500DPS when my simularly geared (refering to this in the past) Warrior was doing 2100 DPS.
    Why can't this game just make it simple for those of us who want nothing to do with healing.

    It would be nothing to take the Mein buffs and make them specific to the trees they want to be used for. (i.e.)

    Mein of Agression (MoA): Linked to DPS trees -- Shaman, Druid, Inquistor, Cabalist,

    Mein of Leadership (MoL): Linked to Tanking tree -- Justicar

    Mein of Honor (MoH): Linked to Healing trees -- Purifier, Warden, Sent

    For every point put into the tree that it is linked with the buff should have a simple equation to the percentage of the effect it grants. (p=points dedicated to the tree)

    For MoA/MoH: p/66*100= percentage of the buffs full effect generated.
    For MoL: p/51*100= percentage of the buffs full effect generated. MoL would be a differant value since there is only one tanking tree, and only 51 points that can be spent in it.

    This ofcourse would probably eliminate most of (if not all) the DoL raid heal specs, but a healer should not need to throw up 1-2k DPS. This would also allow for those of us that want to DPS to be able to DPS without all the slack jaw scaling we are recieving!
    There is very little to justify simplifying the game any more as is, considering the tooltips are already in near-complete idiot mode (yet people still don't understand what a number of abilities do).

    Cleric DPS could use some work. Cleric healing could stand to be tweaked for MT heals a little , but the shielding they provide to mitigate hits during progression is not to be forgotten (and isn't seen on the parse). Looking purely at HPS is an incomplete metric of effective healing. And DoL is and will likely continue to be beastly for raid heals. You also seem to be missing out on the point of hybrid builds: they are designed to cut back on pure healers needed and supply some DPS so you can keep the raid alive without losing so much DPS so as not to beat enrage timers.

    If you want nothing to do with healing, don't put any points into justicar and run a 51 inquisitor or jolt 'n bolt or something. Again, I will admit cleric DPS could use a little bit of tweaking, though due to the versatility of clerics, I don't think it should be giving top DPS specs from other classes close competition.

    As for cleric tanks, they mostly need a health pool buff at the moment -- mitigation improved with the last patch, and the biggest issue is tanks getting hit harder and needing a larger effective health pool to compensate. Other than that, they have excellent threat generation and can help with healing later in fights by switching Miens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trisian View Post
    Or better yet, go back to playing a different game.
    If you don't like the way Rift does things, either buy the company out or stop giving them your money. I personally am content and optimistic about future changes (and there's not much else in the way of raiding MMOs), so I do the one thing within my control to show support or displeasure with a game.

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  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Remli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedoc92 View Post
    Why can't this game just make it simple for those of us who want nothing to do with healing.
    I stopped here.

    Lol@ Clerics who don't want to heal. Reroll.

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser SwiftFlame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedoc92 View Post
    Why can't this game just make it simple for those of us who want nothing to do with healing.
    That's the problem, they've made cleric dps too easy, nothing for us to min/max, and yea, if you don't wanna heal, reroll.

    What we do need is a defilemancer version for clerics.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftFlame View Post
    That's the problem, they've made cleric dps too easy, nothing for us to min/max, and yea, if you don't wanna heal, reroll.

    What we do need is a defilemancer version for clerics.
    They made cleric dps too easy, but there's still plenty to min/max. Similar to any mage spec, you're always following a priority system. You wouldn't refresh vex first if both it and lightning hammer had fallen off...you wouldn't prioritize Sanction Heretic over BoJ in a 35 inq Jolt n Bolt spec except for refreshing Sanction..

    Clerics can do quite a bit of dps (We were equal to mages and rogues before 1.8), but we do need a top-end spec that isn't as simple as Jolt-n-Bolt.

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