Cleric PvP is a rip off

[Fadern]

1. Bingo. People don't want to change specs and that has nothing to do with a balance issue because the good specs are still there. I find Senticar enthralling to play. If someone else does not like Senticar, that does not mean you suddenly count it out.

2. 38/28 is a very difficult spec for mages in PvE; just because it's difficult you wouldn't call them unbalanced on the low-end. (They are the top potential Single-Target DPSers in PvE)

3. I did not imply that 99% of above-average players do not play a Cleric. I stated that most of the good clerics are healing warfronts and carrying them in that manner, while only a few good clerics are DPSing. This is why you will see a small proportion of clerics even competing for killing blows. The few times I DPS in a warfront as 51 Inquisitor, I usually top the KB.

1. Most players that use to heal has switch do dps, that is why other classes are angry at us because we stopped healing and started to dps instead. Other classes are also angry because a cleric dps in pvp is a waste of spot. I believe that most clerics who used to heal before doesn't like it one bit and having senticar is not going to solve the issue, mainly because even though it's the best atm it's still not good or fun.

2. My point as you clearly didn't understand is that if 3 clerics in the entire world is doing good, out of thousands it's either because the class is really bad or it is almost impossible to master, guess which of those statement that is most correct?

3. If we say that about 25% of the pvp players are cleric, and out of those 25% more than half of them is dps, I think it should be alot more clerics on top of the charts.
Since cleric dps is about 1% of the top dps'ers it's one of 3 things, either the class is really underpowered, or it is way to hard to play, or it's such a boring specc that none of the talented players wants to play it.
Which one of those statement do you think is most correct?

[Ahov]

Whilst I agree healing is normally the most important thing a cleric can do in a WF, it is also irrelevant to what I wrote.

There are plenty of clerics that DPS at least a significant amount of time in WF, some nearly all the time (especially since 1.8), I never see clerics put out the really high DPS/KB or KB to deaths that good rogues/mages/pocket healed warriors do (I'm talking single target builds, outside of cab), just cleics that sometimes do good "for a cleric".

As for the kill streak leader board, you don't have to play a lot to get it on, there are people on those that play relatively little, just not a single cleric (or 2 in the EU, whoopee!), there is a reason for that, clerics as an all round DPS package are second rate.

http://i.imgur.com/mfLHR.png

Judging by this picture we're doing relatively well compared to warriors!

If you account for all the clerics that routinely heal, 2 out of 20 isn't that bad.

Scrolling down further into the list we get 4 out of 30, an even better ratio, and good considering a lot of clerics heal.

[Ardor]

Warfronts were won or lost based on healing, before 1.8. Now, just count the warriors on your side, and the warriors on the other side. Whichever team has more, wins. Try it. It's an accurate predictor 90% or more of the time.

Uh, that's usually because clerics are healing. Warfronts are won and lost based on healing, so you have a much smaller percentage of clerics DPSing compared to warriors, rogues, or mages.

[Baramos]

a cleric Cabalist can top dps in WF but can't kill anything.

Well you are half right!

[Ardor]

Also, Ahov, you're advocating use of Senticar in PvP. I have a couple of questions about that.

1) How do you reliably/quickly keep up Convictions without getting into melee range (melee range = instant cleric death in PvP)? Even the Inq variant of Senticar doesn't give you a ranged instant conviction gnenerator that's always off cooldown.
2) How do you get any HI casts off (even with Serendipity procs) without being killed in mid-cast or attracting every DPSer on the map? Nothing attracts DPS attention like long heal casts. Nothing gets you killed like 1+ second-long casts.

I understand that positioning helps; there must be some other tactic you are employing specific to use of this build that is giving you the warfront success you're touting in this thread. If you could share, that's be great, thanks!

[Pork Star]

Also, Ahov, you're advocating use of Senticar in PvP. I have a couple of questions about that.

1) How do you reliably/quickly keep up Convictions without getting into melee range (melee range = instant cleric death in PvP)? Even the Inq variant of Senticar doesn't give you a ranged instant conviction gnenerator that's always off cooldown.
2) How do you get any HI casts off (even with Serendipity procs) without being killed in mid-cast or attracting every DPSer on the map? Nothing attracts DPS attention like long heal casts. Nothing gets you killed like 1+ second-long casts.

I understand that positioning helps; there must be some other tactic you are employing specific to use of this build that is giving you the warfront success you're touting in this thread. If you could share, that's be great, thanks!

I don't know about Ahov, but in addition to his conviction macro, I have another conviction macro containing nothing but instant spells to help me get convictions quickly. It has BoR, Life's Vengeance, and Banish. It may not be good DPS, but it'll get you the convictions from range, quickly.

Try to stay LoS from(or out of range of) the enemy when using HI. If getting it cast is a problem, TTL and Healer's Haste are your friends.

[Kaelani]

Those same players who stopped healing because they couldn't adapt to a patch (i.e. switch out from nerfed warden and start using Senticar or really any other spec) are bad players and don't speak for clerics.

As always, you can't compare classes based on grandmothers or otherwise "the average players". It's an unfair view. You must always look for changes based on the top-tier players. If trion listened to "the average player" you would see clerics with 60% dmg modifier on mien of aggression because they don't know how to dps.

Tell you what, Ahov...
When you show up in the top 50 for Killing Blows as a Cleric, we'll stop whining.
(Use whatever Cleric build you like to do it.)

Until then, all us "bads" will continue to convince Trion to fix clerics in PvP.

[dead2soon]

I've been playing justicar/inquisitor. It's a lot of fun. Much more fun than healing is anyways. DPS and heals are mediocre. I usually place between 3-5 on the top chart for both of those. Where I really seem to shine is damage taken. I almost always lead that category. I am constantly taking damage. When I'm in a full heal spec that category is usually the reason I spend most of my time at the graveyard and the heals afforded by a full heal spec are just not enough to keep me up. I did find justicar/sent to be decent at keeping me up but the healing hit for survivability kinda sucked making healing more lackluster. Since most of the healing was coming from dol anyways I chose to pick up a little pew pew instead.

[Nefelia]

I am of two minds regarding the Cleric's current situation. On the one hand I still manage to get in the top three for healing on the chart, despite being a R10 Warden/Sentinel. That tells me there is still some value left in that build, so long as it is played well - that tends to mean less HS/SS and more mana-guzzling HC and better use of strategic OotT on friendlies taking a beating.

If healing in general has taken a hit, I can at least comfort myself that Wardens are still among the best healers.

On the other hand, self preservation has taken a gigantic hit. I think healing is generally where it should be right now. It is useful but not godly. However, I wish they could have accomplished that without stripping away so much survivability.

[Ardor]

In PvP, the healers are the tanks! We are the ones who get targeted first (get the aggro), and we must have tools to absorb the damage!

Now that our highest-mobility instant-cast soul is completely gimped, we cannot fulfill our actual main function (PvP tanking -- surviving focus fire, and soaking up enemy DPS), and we become useless in warfronts once we are identified as a high-priority target (in 1.8, read: "free kill").

[Fates]

Whoa I have really missed out on all these Ahov troll threads. I really need to start reading the cleric forums more since the mage forums are sooooo boring.

Please continue to flame Ahov it makes me all warm and tingly inside.

(<3 Ahov)

[Silentstorm]

Cleric is in no way bad it might be the player not the game.....
Look at my sig if you want proof. I've been destroying people no matter what they do to us clerics. You adjust and come up with no ways to win. Or when its too annoying heal or support heal. But to say clerics s bad or a rip off lol............lol...........again lawl....

You just really need to practice all jokes aside. Look for advantages in a fight don't pick a fight not in your favor unless you have CD's. If you notice what I do if you watch i rock back and forth. It's not that i'm bored lol I'm assessing the environment. That will make you win alot of fights alone. You cant just go in thinking your a cannon and no one can kill you.

You don't haved to listen to me your can ignore the advice. But I'm kinda proof everday its not bad and guys really need to learn to use the class better.

[Silentstorm]

As far as dps competitive I'm usually at the top in raid gear and i dont even have relics. I am maxed PA and learned to maximize my dps erase dps mistakes. I imagine if i did have relics i'd be on top of the meters. I can proove that to you as well if you like. It's really sad guys complain and say omg buff please. Because really other then making our rotations more interesting and interactive we don't need one.

The only thing that needs to be buffed is button mashers knowledge on playing a game. Every game you have guys saying omg its hard to get dps numbers. To be honest i dont want to play a game where it's easy. The main issue in cleric dps is on the outside its easy to do. But in order to actually do well in pvp/pve as dps. You gotta understand what to do when to do it and how to do it. That is where the problem lies not that we need buffs. It's lack of knowledge in whole on how to be successful at it.

Lastly if you see less dps of a class in a top concensus. But it does have representation on the list some even right there with the tops. What that says is the class isnt easy mode or more people be doing it. And what it also says is people want the game dumb down because they too lazy on figuring it out. I hope trion never EVER conforms to lazy gamers.

[Flimble]

But I'm kinda proof everday its not bad and guys really need to learn to use the class better.

Not really...

[Silentstorm]

Yea really post proof otherwise my example is out there. All I'm saying is its not sky falling as complainers always want you to think it is. And if you feel as such post the proof not omg i suck statements or we suck. That is just a opinion that maybe based off of lack of knowledge in the class.