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Thread: Bewilder useful? Would making it insta-cast be so wrong?

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Ming's Avatar
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    Default Bewilder useful? Would making it insta-cast be so wrong?

    Bewilder is an Inquisitor ability requiring 20 pts in INQ. It has a 1.5sec cast time and renders 1 target mez'ed for 8 sec or until damaged.

    I pose this as a question rather than a request, but why the cast time?

    I leveled up my cleric up specced INQ and didn't use this spell a whole lot in PvE, but I think I would have had this been insta-cast. Lets face it, in PvE the Inquisitor blows stuff up pretty fast, but is also pretty squishy. The most use I got out of it was to loot grund spawn items under the noses of monsters didn't want to fight.

    Raiding/dungeon use? I'm sure bewilder could definitely have it's uses here, but every PUG I've ever been in (not a ton but plenty) just goes crazy hitting everything so the cast time would be DPS lost. I'm sure regular guild raiders can chime in here as that's an area I'm not at all familiar with.

    For PvP the spell works as a spell-interrupt but not so much as a mez because it's so quickly/easily removed. As an INQ with Bewilder I'm already 21 points into the INQ tree ...so chances are I've gone further if not all the way to 51, which is a glass cannon spec.

    It goes without saying CC is extremely important to the PvP survivability of the INQ spec. They have little healing potential and die very quickly 1v1 vs everything. The general strategy for INQ's is quick CC reactives combined with burst DPS (Sanction Heretic and insta BoD) to take opponents before they take you out. This rarely happens, by the way once the Inq has been singled out by a rogue or warrior. They're pretty much dead once this happens as they have little in the way of escape methods.

    Let's look at the INQ's CC:

    30 sec CD insta cast gap opener...........Excommunicate (8 pts req. in Inq)
    1.5 sec CD, insta cast 8 sec ST snare... Impede (20 pt req)
    No CD, 1.5 sec cast ST stun................Bewilder (20 pt req)
    60 sec CD insta cast AoE fear..............Trepidation (26 pt req)


    Excommunicate is immediately countered by melee gap closers.
    Impede is good to slow an opponent down if there's a gap or even kite , but it's immediate removal is pretty much automatic. If there's not already a gap Impede does little as INQ's die FAST when in melee range.

    They have no innate healing other than the channeled spell harsh discipline which doesn't scale well and is basically a big neon arrow in PvP saying follow this to a free kill. Vex heals in ticks as well, but isn't going to keep an INQ alive once a rogue or warrior is knocking on their backdoor.

    Fear is nice every minute.... but RARELY gets said melee's off me.

    The inquisitor is a purely offensive cleric yet their KB's are nothing near other casters because they spend a lot of time running back into battle. They die too easy. Would making bewilder a useful stun go a long way in combination to make INQ's more hearty? It would be nice in combination with the other CC tools to maintain gaps for a short time. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to ask for INQ's to be a little more battle-hearty. Would it imbalance PvE content?The Inq already PWNS PvE so I don't see how.

    Edit... probably would havee to put a reasonable CD on it to prevent chain casting as an interrupt.
    Last edited by Ming; 02-09-2012 at 10:04 AM.

  2. #2
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    Agree and disagree. It has the potential to be a strong spell, but has its (major) limitations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming View Post
    Why the cast time?
    I do think it could be more useful (like Transmogrify). Longer ability, can spec into instant-cast, doesn't break immediately upon damage, can spec into making it no cooldown.

    Raiding/dungeon use?
    It can be used to mez certain mobs in HK (Lost Soldiers, etc). Though, an archon spamming Transmogrify does just as good a job, and doesn't reduce overall raid DPS.

    30 sec CD insta cast gap opener...........Excommunicate (8 pts req. in Inq)
    1.5 sec CD, insta cast 8 sec ST snare... Impede (20 pt req)
    No CD, 1.5 sec cast ST stun................Bewilder (20 pt req)
    60 sec CD insta cast AoE fear..............Trepidation (26 pt req)
    I agree with you on certain things.

    Excommunicate (20 points in) on a 30s CD I can understand, but it punts the person like 5 meters. The Warden KB punts them significantly farther, and is on an 15s CD.
    Impede is not useful at all in PvP, since DR nerf it to the ground. It used to be good for kiting, but not so much anymore.
    Trepidation is a great way to get warriors/rogues off of you, but on a 60s CD, it's very situational.

    However, your main two weapons in PvP with inquisitor are two that you didn't mention. Your range is significantly longer for abilities than rogues/warriors. If you can keep them at a distance, then you're set. The other weapon is Purge. If you can purge a warrior's charge-on-crit ability, or a rogue's Fell Blades/Vampiric Munitions, you have a significant advantage. Most players are too tunnel-visioned to notice their buffs purged, and those that do take GCDs to rebuff them, giving you time to heal/DPS.

    I agree, inquisitors could use some help with "get away from me" CDs, but it's not as bad as you make it sound. Their burst is top-notch, so making a bursty slippery class is just asking for a nerf.

    On a different note, why are you doing anything but healing in PvP?



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  3. #3
    Rift Chaser Ming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    Agree and disagree. It has the potential to be a strong spell, but has its (major) limitations.

    I do think it could be more useful (like Transmogrify). Longer ability, can spec into instant-cast, doesn't break immediately upon damage, can spec into making it no cooldown.
    Yes that would be cool but we have to remember, the overall point pool in any class tree is already set at 51 so changes have to remain 100% conservative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    Excommunicate (20 points in) on a 30s CD I can understand, but it punts the person like 5 meters. The Warden KB punts them significantly farther, and is on an 15s CD.
    Impede is not useful at all in PvP, since DR nerf it to the ground. It used to be good for kiting, but not so much anymore.
    Trepidation is a great way to get warriors/rogues off of you, but on a 60s CD, it's very situational.
    Fine with me.. it should punt them further in line w crushing wave. Crushing wave is just 4 points into warden, so it's likely a 51Inq build will have both at their disposal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    ...If you can keep them at a distance, then you're set. The other weapon is Purge. If you can purge a warrior's charge-on-crit ability, or a rogue's Fell Blades/Vampiric Munitions, you have a significant advantage. Most players are too tunnel-visioned to notice their buffs purged, and those that do take GCDs to rebuff them, giving you time to heal/DPS.

    I agree, inquisitors could use some help with "get away from me" CDs, but it's not as bad as you make it sound. Their burst is top-notch, so making a bursty slippery class is just asking for a nerf.
    First off, "IF" you can keep them at a distance is key. If you can't you die quickly. It shouldn't be easy because we do have a lot of big burst, I agree, but having useful tools is the goal.

    As for being slippery and being able to do burst damage... let's remember a 51 Inq is all about offense. Why should it be any less offensive than say marksman rogues? **huge gasp from the crowd- the AUDACITY.. ROGUES ARE SACRED!!!!!** Would making bewilder insta- (and maybe tweaking excommunicate to be better) really push INQ's into OP land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    On a different note, why are you doing anything but healing in PvP?
    I actually do heal most of the time, but there are certain WF's I sometimes really like to run offense.. namely Whitefall... flag runner chasing is a guilty pleasure.
    Last edited by Ming; 02-09-2012 at 11:03 AM.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    However, your main two weapons in PvP with inquisitor are two that you didn't mention. Your range is significantly longer for abilities than rogues/warriors. If you can keep them at a distance, then you're set.
    Marksmen casting range is 27-30m and any rogue with Riftstalker will just port to you.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    Marksmen casting range is 27-30m and any rogue with Riftstalker will just port to you.
    Since I can't edit: I'm wrong and it's 30m w/ an extra 5m from talents. So 35m range for Rogues.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser Ming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    Marksmen casting range is 27-30m and any rogue with Riftstalker will just port to you.
    Exactly... and there's no counter. They port to you, you excommunicate them 5m away, maybe if you live long enough, and they're back and then you're dead. It would be nice to pop that insta stun (that could last as long as 8 seconds -yeah if they're AFK lol) and get maybe another few meters away, then maybe SH is back up and/or Nyster's. INQ's do have range, and they're awesome for finishing wounded ducks, read as KB stealing if you will but arena's not here yet, but they could use a little love. They just can't get away, period.. no chance as it is now and don't have time to burst down anyone when they're dead in 3 seconds.

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    Rift Chaser Raynedrops's Avatar
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    Well, as an Inq in pvp you're not really supposed to go toe to toe with anything, but rather stay at the outskirts of battle, using your team mates as shields. Keep Vex up on everything you see and look out for enemies that are getting low on health, then hit them with Nysyr's Rebuke and/or Sanction Heretic.
    You can get a lot of kills if you stay constantly on the move and use LoS when you start taking damage. Pre-vexing multiple targets is a good way to stay alive if you want to attempt melee range for those epic soul drains.
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    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Both slumber and bewilder should be insta cast.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Ming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raynedrops View Post
    Well, as an Inq in pvp you're not really supposed to go toe to toe with anything, but rather stay at the outskirts of battle, using your team mates as shields. Keep Vex up on everything you see and look out for enemies that are getting low on health, then hit them with Nysyr's Rebuke and/or Sanction Heretic.
    You can get a lot of kills if you stay constantly on the move and use LoS when you start taking damage. Pre-vexing multiple targets is a good way to stay alive if you want to attempt melee range for those epic soul drains.
    It's not about going toe to toe, and yes LoS is the bread and butter of the spec. Nobody expects to go toe to toe using an offensive casting spec. The idea is to have a chance at a getaway. As soon as anyone targets my Inq I'm just just basically dead. LoS is great and all, but a warrior/rogue just runs/warps up or a rogue shoots from distance or comes out of stealth and it's death 2 seconds later. There's no time to react even. If a rogue can stun from stealth and then take an INQ to 30% health before the player can even act, asking for an insta-bewilder at least buy a second back is hardly ridiculous sounding.

  10. #10
    Ascendant tro44's Avatar
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    similar to Druid Slumber

    it seem like these abilities were planned to be used a CC in Instanced PvE. but they have too short of a duration to be of any use there, and the Fights normally dont hold in PvE anyway for use of CC.

    so in PvP, with the short duration, the DR already kills this ability, as well as AoE and Dots.

    Lets Go Rift. Hope Archeage can do something next. Lets Save Rift

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