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Thread: Dark Passage is useful finally!

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    Prophet of Telara Morguloth's Avatar
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    Default Dark Passage is useful finally!

    Dark Passage is useful finally!
    Thank you Zinbik for finally making Dark Passage a straight teleport instead of a random one. No longer do I feel like I'm rolling the dice by trying this ability, it's quite handy for getting beyond the range of a pesky marksman or getting back to the safety of a healer, etc. After a long year this spell is worthy of being on my hotbar, thank you.

    A couple I'd like to note that still need attention though:

    1 Nebulous Haze....2 second cast time to reduce another caster's cast time by 25% is way too long. Especially in PvP, it has no practicle use, reduce the cast time and maybe more would use it.
    Imho, it should be an instant spell.

    2 Maelstrom....the nerf to this spell's radius and range a few patches ago was downright silly. It had been intact for months and then after the last Cab changes it gets the nerf bat, lame. As is it's not too useful, doesn't pull enough players or npcs to even be worth using. The POINT of Maelstrom was to gather more enemies into the radius of your Tyranny and other AoE blasts....the current radius of Maelstrom is redundant since it's NO larger than your AoE blast radius anyway. Restore this spell plz Zinbik, it's use in both PvE and PvP is gimp atm and needs to be addressed.

    3 Dark Water.....imho the cast time should be instant since it's basically a weaker version of Sanction Heretic, why is Sanction instant, yet the weaker Dark Water has a 1.5 sec cast time?
    I'm fine with the 15 sec CD, but fail to see the logic of having a spell we have to buy in our skill tree be not only a weaker version of our Inquistor brother's spell, but have a much longer cast time as well....makes no sense. This is partly why many don't use Cabalist for any single target threats, not a lot of viable single target options on our hotbar, if this was made instant cast, it would improve that a bit.

    Overall Cab is in a pretty good place, but these are some abilities I believe could use some adjustment.

    *note*..meant to put this in cleric forum originally, apologies for the double post.

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    Another issue, is that the Inquisitor crystal gives more DPS than the Cabalist crystal, when running a 51 Cabalist. This is because, in a raid, our single target rotation has SH and bolt of judgment, which turn out to be a majority of our total damage (only because Cabalist single target skills hit for so little) and are life damage. So the 10% life damage from the crystal is more valuable over the duration of the fight, than 15% Curse of Discord alone. I don't even count curse of solitude, simply because, for a cooldown skill, it hits for NOTHING (only time its not a dps loss is when you have 6+ targets, and thats rare)
    Last edited by Malbojia; 02-08-2012 at 03:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malbojia View Post
    Another issue, is that the Inquisitor crystal gives more DPS than the Cabalist crystal, when running a 51 Cabalist. This is because, in a raid, our single target rotation has SH and bolt of judgment, which turn out to be a majority of our total damage (only because Cabalist single target skills hit for so little) and are life damage. So the 10% life damage from the crystal is more valuable over the duration of the fight, than 15% Curse of Discord alone. I don't even count curse of solitude, simply because, for a cooldown skill, it hits for NOTHING (only time its not a dps loss is when you have 6+ targets, and thats rare)
    Call me an idiot (haven't used cabalist in a bit) but since when does the single-target rotation contain BoJ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjah View Post
    Call me an idiot (haven't used cabalist in a bit) but since when does the single-target rotation contain BoJ?
    Since it out damages Shadows Touch. Even if you DON'T talent Castigation (reduce casting time of BoJ by0.5 seconds), it still hits for more on an equal cast time. But being 1.5 also allows you to get more skills casted over all.

    Even before BoJ was buffed, it did more dps than Shadows Touch. Shadows touch should only ever be used in an aoe situation. Which is sad. Problem with cabalist, is that the dev's don't want its ST-dps to get anywhere near the actual ST-dps souls. But they have no problem with the ST-dps souls getting close to Cabalist in aoe. On the most common aoe situations, there aren't enough targets to let cabalist come out ahead of ST specs.
    Last edited by Malbojia; 02-08-2012 at 04:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malbojia View Post
    Since it out damages Shadows Touch. Even if you DON'T talent Castigation (reduce casting time of BoJ by0.5 seconds), it still hits for more on an equal cast time. But being 1.5 also allows you to get more skills casted over all.

    Even before BoJ was buffed, it did more dps than Shadows Touch. Shadows touch should only ever be used in an aoe situation. Which is sad. Problem with cabalist, is that the dev's don't want its ST-dps to get anywhere near the actual ST-dps souls. But they have no problem with the ST-dps souls getting close to Cabalist in aoe. On the most common aoe situations, there aren't enough targets to let cabalist come out ahead of ST specs.
    Before the buff BoJ didn't out-dps Shadow's Touch on single-target. I haven't tested it in ages though, which is why I'm surprised.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjah View Post
    Before the buff BoJ didn't out-dps Shadow's Touch on single-target. I haven't tested it in ages though, which is why I'm surprised.
    As far as I know it doesn't, it's a DPS loss compared to 'shadows touch', however it is worth having a macro with it in instead because sometimes you don't want to be doing any AOE at all. Maybe the crystal resetting it makes it worth it, doubt it though.

    I suppose there's also the option to use 5 points to reduce BOJ cast time instead of 5% spel crit.
    Last edited by Malark; 02-08-2012 at 05:34 PM.

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    Rift Chaser Raynedrops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morguloth View Post
    Dark Passage [...] Imho, it should be an instant spell.
    ^this

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    Prophet of Telara ChainsawPlankton's Avatar
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    1710 sp, and 4pc HK inq crystal

    on crit hits:
    2313 boj in 51inq/10/5
    2019 shadows touch (and that was hitting 2 targets giving reduced damage, dummies too close!) vs 1699 boj in 51/15/0 cab/justi

    looks like shadows touch does more to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raynedrops View Post
    ^this

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    Dark Passage has always been an instant spell, you quoted that out of context, I was referring to Dark WATER, that spell should be an instant cast OR should get a dps boost, one or the other.

    It's a gimp, poor mans Sanction Herectic atm. Our single target spells need a bit more fluidity, Obliterate is on a 15 sec CD, Dark Water is on a 15 sec CD, Curse of Discord is on a 15 CD, Distorted Shadows is on a 15 sec CD (AND breaks waaaay too easily imho), so switching single targets with Cabalist is cumbersome, I'd reduce a few of the CDs on these spells, as none of them are really worthy of a 15 CD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawPlankton View Post
    1710 sp, and 4pc HK inq crystal

    on crit hits:
    2313 boj in 51inq/10/5
    2019 shadows touch (and that was hitting 2 targets giving reduced damage, dummies too close!) vs 1699 boj in 51/15/0 cab/justi

    looks like shadows touch does more to me
    Try testing Shadows Touch out in a full Cab build, with Death Dominion fully feated, extra 10% dmg.

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    I totally agree with op.

    I've won dps and healing done in several wf's with my cabacar specc.

    I've also felt like the most useless player in several wf's with the same specc.


    It's fine that Caba has great weakness like in small groups or in duel when it is the best specc in larger groups.

    But it sure is strange that the difference is so insanly large. From being the best in some fights to being the worst in the next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawPlankton View Post
    1710 sp, and 4pc HK inq crystal

    on crit hits:
    2313 boj in 51inq/10/5
    2019 shadows touch (and that was hitting 2 targets giving reduced damage, dummies too close!) vs 1699 boj in 51/15/0 cab/justi

    looks like shadows touch does more to me
    2019 shadows touch: 2 second cast time =1009 dps
    1699 boj : 1.5 second cast time =1132 dps

    Your numbers say BoJ is better. Your also not losing 1/3 of a GCD with each cast, so your over all dps with other skills will increase as well.
    Last edited by Malbojia; 02-09-2012 at 12:49 AM.
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    I will say, that Shadows touch has better SP scalling. When your spell power reaches roughly 2100 , they will do the same dps (and above that, ST will do more), but ST suffers from knockback, much more so than BoJ. And with archon buffs, BoJ can suffer many knock backs and not lose any dps, where as ST will still drag down its numbers. Not to mention the sub-GCD BoJ would have, leaving room for small movements between casts.
    Last edited by Malbojia; 02-09-2012 at 01:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morguloth View Post
    Dark Passage has always been an instant spell, you quoted that out of context, I was referring to Dark WATER, that spell should be an instant cast OR should get a dps boost, one or the other.

    It's a gimp, poor mans Sanction Herectic atm. Our single target spells need a bit more fluidity, Obliterate is on a 15 sec CD, Dark Water is on a 15 sec CD, Curse of Discord is on a 15 CD, Distorted Shadows is on a 15 sec CD (AND breaks waaaay too easily imho), so switching single targets with Cabalist is cumbersome, I'd reduce a few of the CDs on these spells, as none of them are really worthy of a 15 CD.
    Oops, I meant Nebulous Haze. My bad.
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    Prophet of Telara ChainsawPlankton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morguloth View Post
    Try testing Shadows Touch out in a full Cab build, with Death Dominion fully feated, extra 10% dmg.
    I did say it was 51 cab

    Quote Originally Posted by Malbojia View Post
    2019 shadows touch: 2 second cast time =1009 dps
    1699 boj : 1.5 second cast time =1132 dps

    Your numbers say BoJ is better. Your also not losing 1/3 of a GCD with each cast, so your over all dps with other skills will increase as well.
    in a 51 cab spec would you spec into .5 sec cast reduction for boj over 5% crit? also don't forget to add in burning purpose,

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