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Thread: 1.7 Justicar Tanking/icar Thread and Improvements Requrested!

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default 1.7 Justicar Tanking/icar Thread and Improvements Requrested!

    Since we will no longer be forced as tanks to put 9 points into shaman anymore this really opens up some options for tanks. If you look at the trees you will now see that our new most likely top tank build will become a:

    51 Purifier/12 Inquis/3 Shaman(for the damage reduction)

    What do we gain with this??
    -Purge
    -Higher Crits
    -Vex will self heal us
    -Aggressive Renewal for mana regen

    Overall this will really help us out in many ways espeically now that we will have a purge AND an aoe interrupt!!

    Now on to the meat of things:

    Zibnak if your not going to actually buff our raid healing souls to allow them to actually take the place of DoL then I would recommend the following changes:

    I really like that you have moved Favored of the Valnir buff to the justicar tree in the form of Healer's Creed , it was an Ace move. I think the problem is that you removed the Doctrine Mana reduction skill to do it which effects almost all cleric raiders. What I would recommend is that you leave Healer's Creed in its current form and move the Favored of the Valnir buff to Shield of Faith. Shield of Faith should then just give a 2% healing increase and 2% damage reduction per level (up to 10% for each at rank 5).

    This would make tanks happy, icar's happy, and most of the cleric community happy.

    This will go along way to helping you shorten your list in top project needing to be addressed:

    1) Justicars HP/Mitigation concerns
    2) Druid soul needing a overhaul
    3) Raid Healing improvement to healing souls
    4) DPS scaling
    5) Warden ST heals
    (shaman dps may be addressed in 1.7)
    I think that is the short list everyone wants fixed for the most part.

    What do you guys think about 1.7 tank changes, raid healing changes, and icar changes and opportunities?

  2. #2
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    On a side note:

    I think thick skinned should be removed from the Shaman tree and placed into justicar tree, into Shield of Faith also. This could also be buffed to help close the mitigation gap some. A possible re-write of Shield of Faith would be.

    Shield of Faith:
    Reduces the damage you recieve by 3% and increase heals recieved by 3% per level (up to 5 levels).

    This would overall help the heals we get and mitigation helping close the gap on warriors/rogues to a degree. This would also show a step in the right direction towards our tanking ability and make many many people happy without really taking away/changing much. It puts it high enough into justicar that unless your tanking or willing to lose DPS you won't gain it. It would also open up our no brainer tanking souls we must tank.

    Thick skinned would need to be changed in order to make this happen.

    Thick Skinned => Eternal Vengence
    2% increase in damage to all Vengence Skills per level (3 levels)
    Last edited by Broxus; 01-20-2012 at 11:03 PM.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Should probably check out the new shaman shield. It looks like a must have for multi mobs aggro.
    Assuming aggro is still a problem for tanks.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Should probably check out the new shaman shield. It looks like a must have for multi mobs aggro.
    Assuming aggro is still a problem for tanks.
    Aggro isnt really that big of an issue but remember the shield WILL overwrite Puri shields so its best to stay away from them or put them in any build ever.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    i think cleric tanks only require some small change to be back in line with warriors and rogues

    HP: we need a bit more HP scaling, perhaps tweak the MoL buff slightly to match warriors HP scaling

    avoidance and mitigation: we are currently at the parry cap which limits our scaling in future content. we need to somehow not be parry capped (so we can scale again) AND increase our base mitigation so that we don't take 50% more damage than warrior tanks

    solution for parry, either raise the cap, or reduce our parry gains from spellpower and make up for it in more dodge and block spellpower scaling

  6. #6
    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    Could do something like 46 justi 20 sent and get healer's cov to use on yourself. Plus protect the flock passively on others and on yourself whenever you DoL, and a cleanse and a silence. Give up 8% damage taken tho from a current max mitigation spec.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Default What are the actual changes?

    Ive searched the forums and cant find much, what are the cleric tanking changes?

  8. #8
    RIFT Community Ambassador Radak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfer View Post
    Ive searched the forums and cant find much, what are the cleric tanking changes?
    The main change that will allow us to spec differently are these 2 changes:
    SHAMAN:
    Favored of the Valnir: Now increases the duration of Lightning by 4-8 seconds, causing increased damage on each additional tick. (no longer increases healing taken)
    JUSTICAR:
    Healer's Creed: Now increases the healing you receive by 5-10%. (no longer reduces mana cost of doctrines)

    The result is we are no longer forced 7 points into shaman for the increased healing taken.

    Also as a heads up when patch 1.7 gets out I will be starting on updating my tank guide to include any new possible specs which their advantages and disadvantages.

    As for what I would like to see changes for justicars would be an increase in hp to put us above warrior (yes I say above here). Removal of the parry cap and a slight increase in the amount of avoidance we get from wisdom.
    The result would be that we because real avoidance tanks. The increased HP will help as survive bigger spikes of unmitigated hits. While a warrior will take a more flattened amount of damage because of their high block chance and high base mitigation. The total mitigation should become about equal (by balancing the wisdom to avoidance correctly) but there would be a real difference between the tanks as a result.
    Cleric tanking: Justicar guide | Justicar spreadsheet and item list
    Defence is as much a part of war as offense, the shield as important a tool as the sword.

  9. #9
    Plane Walker Kolfinna's Avatar
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    It'd be super awesome if those last three points in Shaman were... not. Ideally, I'd like the option to go Sentinel + Cab for the extra SP, or Inq + Purifier for the extra Armor. But, no, the base cleric tank is still 51 Justicar/ a little shaman/ remainder Inq/Cab. Then again, I'm only a cleric. I don't know if I could cope with any sweeping class changes.

    Say, remember back before Justicar had those passive scales, and there wasn't much need to go deeper than 38 points in? You could do a lot of fun things then: heal yourself through T1s with warden, get aggro with Crag Hammer + VotWS + oh-so-many SHoE procs, be a raid cleanser/Protector of Flocks. Good times.
    Last edited by Kolfinna; 01-22-2012 at 01:25 AM.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radak View Post
    The main change that will allow us to spec differently are these 2 changes:
    SHAMAN:
    Favored of the Valnir: Now increases the duration of Lightning by 4-8 seconds, causing increased damage on each additional tick. (no longer increases healing taken)
    JUSTICAR:
    Healer's Creed: Now increases the healing you receive by 5-10%. (no longer reduces mana cost of doctrines)

    The result is we are no longer forced 7 points into shaman for the increased healing taken.
    I have to ask, what's the point of not being forced to go 7 points into shaman when we're still forced to go 3 points into shaman for the 3% damage reduction, especially when the problem with cleric tanking atm is the fact that we get instagibbed in the space of 1 GCD due to bad RNG? ALL the increased healing in the world isn't going to save a cleric tank from that. In fact I would argue that the 7 points in shaman for the extra healing is merely an afterthought rather than an essential part of cleric tanking. The 3% damage reduction, on the other hand....

    Add that to the fact that the other bread and butter choice of clerics is 6 into cab for the reduced elemental damage; after 6 points in cab the soul starts looking pretty pointless in terms of passive boosts for cleric tanks; which probably explains why the most common justi variant I've run across is 51 justi/9 shaman/6 cab.

    Imo this is a blatant DoL nerf and to claim otherwise is totally disingenous.

    Also as a heads up when patch 1.7 gets out I will be starting on updating my tank guide to include any new possible specs which their advantages and disadvantages.

    As for what I would like to see changes for justicars would be an increase in hp to put us above warrior (yes I say above here). Removal of the parry cap and a slight increase in the amount of avoidance we get from wisdom.
    The result would be that we because real avoidance tanks. The increased HP will help as survive bigger spikes of unmitigated hits. While a warrior will take a more flattened amount of damage because of their high block chance and high base mitigation. The total mitigation should become about equal (by balancing the wisdom to avoidance correctly) but there would be a real difference between the tanks as a result.
    Actually I wish rogues were still the avoidance tanks tbh. However, that said, I'm glad the devs have finally admitted that cleric tanking needs to be looked at.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    What about...

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...EuRsqesdqR.VLz

    going into Sent increases our Block via spell power, reprieve will be getting more out of it, heck most stuff a Justicar does will get the SP benefit and you still get a purge from Inquis.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Anuhart's Avatar
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    Since we will no longer be forced as tanks to put 9 points into shaman anymore this really opens up some options for tanks. If you look at the trees you will now see that our new most likely top tank build will become a:

    51 Purifier/12 Inquis/3 Shaman(for the damage reduction)
    Call me mad but I'm tempted to tweak this slightly and take 51 pts out of Purifier and pop them into Justicar.

    Thoughts?

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    You obviously know nothing about Laethys, have you tried him?
    I don't log in anymore.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuhart View Post
    Call me mad but I'm tempted to tweak this slightly and take 51 pts out of Purifier and pop them into Justicar.

    Thoughts?
    That is a bold move Anu, very cutting edge lol
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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