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Thread: DPSing raidhealer(s) - which setup is better?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default DPSing raidhealer(s) - which setup is better?

    With MoA getting released, I started thinking about how to take advantage of it raid-healing wise and this is a question I came up with: Both hps and dps wise, is it better to have one cleric going full dps and one going 11 pts inquisicar with MoH or is it better to have two going 6 pts inquisicar?

    With MoH on, one DoL heals for 150% of its base. With MoA of, one DoL heals for 80% of its base. Therefore having two players DoL heal with MoA should provide more healing. Also, as far as I know, all the +healing taken buffs (such as the +5% one provided by the bard) stack additively so instead of 155% DoLs you will have 2*85% DoLs. That's 155% vs 170% instead of 150% vs 160%. Also I'd like to think two players casting DoLs is more versatile since one of them can be stunned, silenced or otherwise unable to heal. The 6 point version won't have reparation and that does eat at the hps a little bit. However, I don't think anyone really considers the reparation healing critical by any means.

    How do the two setups stack up dps wise though? The first obvious thing is, of course, the fact that they will both be able to benefit from MoA. Another consideration is the fact that twice as many GCDs will be spent healing nd dps will suffer during those times. I do think though that the overall dps will be higher when using two 6-point inquisicars with MoA. Id addition to the MoA, the 6-point inquisicar can afford to spend 5 points more in other souls, typically inquisitor to boost SH/Vex

    Any observations, comments and/or ideas?

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara
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    We usually bring one or two inquisicar's depending on the fight and then have any other non-MT healing clerics go dps. Only had 20 people on tonight and still managed to kill every boss up to Akylios.

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    Telaran
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    Thanks for the reply, tho I did hope you could try to answer my "research question"

    Consider this situation: You have two clerics and require one inquisicar worth of raidhealing.

    I'm trying to find out whether it's more beneficial both dps and hps wise to have both of them go 6-justicar inquisicars and raidheal with MoA OR to have one go full dps and one 11-justi inquisicar with MoH.

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    Rift Disciple
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    Depending on the encounter, one inquisicar could simply mien dance it. No?

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy Of Science View Post
    Depending on the encounter, one inquisicar could simply mien dance it. No?
    Indeed they could. However, it's still 2 gcd's every time they do it plus the increased complexity makes it more error-prone, even if ever so slightly. Let's assume the two MoA clerics use a 50/10/6 build. If one of them went full dps, he gains 4% sp bonus in sh/vex and 5% sp. The other guy on the other hand will lose 20% sp bonus in vex and sh. If there is anything to gain there, it's very minor.

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    Shield of Telara MaddBomber83's Avatar
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    Running a Inquisitor Build and hitting 2.2 k DPS for an entry level HK Cleric.
    Running an Inquisicar Build (38/17/11) variant that will have a little less than normal dps:
    With MoA doing 1700 DPS with DoL Crits for 1.4k
    With MoH doing 1200 DPS with DoL Crits for 2.4k

    You would need both to go support DPS with MoA for a combined DPS of 3.4k
    You could go with 1 pure dps and one MoH for a combined DPS of 3.4k.....

    I guess it depends on your fight. If you need light heals have 1 pure 1 hybrid. Have the hybrid start of in MoA and swap to MoH if needed. On a heavier fight have one start MoA and the other MoH and have them 'feel' it for when to swap back and forth.

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    Shield of Telara MaddBomber83's Avatar
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    I should add that the combined dps of the more traditional Inquisicars looks like it would be higher than the Pure / Hybrid combo.

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    Shield of Telara MaddBomber83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy Of Science View Post
    Depending on the encounter, one inquisicar could simply mien dance it. No?
    Kinda, for me I started in MoA and when it got to the point where I had to do mostly healing I swapped to MoH and stayed there. Fights typically don't get easier at the end so I'm not sure a 'dance' is right, but just swapping over depending on how the fight is going.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaddBomber83 View Post
    Running a Inquisitor Build and hitting 2.2 k DPS for an entry level HK Cleric.
    Running an Inquisicar Build (38/17/11) variant that will have a little less than normal dps:
    With MoA doing 1700 DPS with DoL Crits for 1.4k
    With MoH doing 1200 DPS with DoL Crits for 2.4k

    You would need both to go support DPS with MoA for a combined DPS of 3.4k
    You could go with 1 pure dps and one MoH for a combined DPS of 3.4k.....

    I guess it depends on your fight. If you need light heals have 1 pure 1 hybrid. Have the hybrid start of in MoA and swap to MoH if needed. On a heavier fight have one start MoA and the other MoH and have them 'feel' it for when to swap back and forth.
    I have to admit I didn't quite get the point of this. I'm not familiar with your variant of the inquisicar. It seems to be some variant with HI in it..

    To reiterate my question:

    We're in the quite common situation where we need ONE inquisicar worth of raidhealing and have TWO clerics that don't have their roles assigned yet. Is it better to have one full dps and one MoH raidhealer or two MoA 6-justi raidhealers?

  10. #10
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    Eh.

    Inquisicar with MOH is basically first and foremost the beneficial thing that a Cleric brings to any encounter with AE damage.

    You don't NEED a cleric for pure DPS but you might NEED a MOH Inquisicar. If you do have extra Clerics in my opinion you might as well have them run pure DPS if you have the healing covered.

    The whole MOA thing I would only consider if you had heaps of Clerics, I don't think MOA Inquisicars are really going to be the way to go, only if you have a bunch of Clerics. Throwing out 300-500 point DOLS isn't terribly impressive.
    Last edited by Malark; 12-09-2011 at 12:55 AM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer rantology's Avatar
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    You're just gimping yourself on flexibility if you don't go 11 points in, you won't even get reparation healing. If you want, have 1 "main" inquisicar have them run the 38/17/11 build with protect the flock, and then have one in the 51 point build for backup who could mainly DPS and stay in MoA. (Though both can stance-dance). But to only go 6 points in is a waste. Those DoLs have the potential to be worthless, as DoL is used to counter burst damage- the heals need to be strong, MoA DoL heals are pretty weak. Not to mention if one of your raid healers dies, you can switch it up on the fly. Sacrificing 5 talent points for MoH and the value of the flexibility it brings is a no brainer imo. You won't gain anywhere near the amount of DPS that would make up for losing MoH.
    afk tera.

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    Telaran
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    To the two previous posters, rantology and malark:

    Either I'm really not understanding your point or you're really, really not understanding mine.

    This is my hypothesis: Two 6-justi inquisicars with MoA will heal MORE than one 11-justi inquisicar will with Moh WHILE doing more dps than the 11-justi inquisicar and one full dps inquisitor combined.

    Granted, I didn't factor in the 38/17/11 build, instead assuming the full dps would be running 51/10/5 and the inquisicar 45/11/10.

    The point still remains, if you have TWO players casting DoL with MoA on, they WILL heal more than one player casting DoL with MoH on.

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    RIFT Guide Writer rantology's Avatar
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    Depends on the builds I guess. If you were to have two say, 51/6/9 clerics running MoA-icar, they'd probably actually put out some decent numbers. Would it be enough to counter raid damage on Runeking's cursed blows and Grugonim tower phases? Probably not, but then that's where you'd need to factor in how much other raid healing you have.

    If you want to min-max you could probably do it, the only difficult fight in HK is Akylios. But you're straight up losing Protect the Flock (5% mit on the tanks and the raid the majority of the time, very valuable raid buff) and in some ways taking unnecessary risk. If one of your raid healers dies you won't be able to adapt.

    So I suppose the answer to your question is yes, you'd probably get a mild increase in DPS out of two MoA-icars and they could probably do the job of 1 MoH inquisicar. As to whether you'd want to or not, that's up to your guild. Personally I wouldn't, especially if you are still progressing (we always run with 1 Protect the Flock inquisicar).
    Last edited by rantology; 12-09-2011 at 01:56 AM.
    afk tera.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by rantology View Post
    But you're straight up losing Protect the Flock (5% mit on the tanks and the raid the majority of the time, very valuable raid buff) and in some ways taking unnecessary risk. If one of your raid healers dies you won't be able to adapt.
    Well obviously we can play the PtF game with the 6-justi version. Let's have TWO 6-justi inquisicars with PtF on each (43/17/6). Assuming you take Benediction for another 5% boost to heals, the 6-justi version will pull even more ahead at healing. Also, PtF will have a more reliable coverage ( tho that's almost a non-issue tbh). The downside if of course the fact that dps dips a little bit more, tho I'd still suspect the 6-justis will be ahead. Or you could just have one of them get PtF.

    Saying we'd be unable to adapt in case one of our raid healers die is incorrect. What if your sole raid healer dies? You'll have nothing. With 2 healers you'll still have one left who either will or won't heal enough. But at least he'll heal.

    BOTTOM LINE:
    The way I see it, the MoA gave us a new tool regarding raid healing: Any time you have one inquisicar and one full dps cleric, you can turn them into two 6-justis to boost both the healing and dps. If you need a full inquisicar, fine, you can have as many as you want. But any time you have one of them AND a full dps one, you're better off getting two 6-justis instead.
    Last edited by Tuplis; 12-09-2011 at 02:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuplis View Post
    To the two previous posters, rantology and malark:

    Either I'm really not understanding your point or you're really, really not understanding mine.

    This is my hypothesis: Two 6-justi inquisicars with MoA will heal MORE than one 11-justi inquisicar will with Moh WHILE doing more dps than the 11-justi inquisicar and one full dps inquisitor combined.

    Granted, I didn't factor in the 38/17/11 build, instead assuming the full dps would be running 51/10/5 and the inquisicar 45/11/10.

    The point still remains, if you have TWO players casting DoL with MoA on, they WILL heal more than one player casting DoL with MoH on.
    I understand you I just don't think there's ever really going to be a point to what you're saying.

    You want to raid heal you drop that couple of hundred DPS slap on MOH and you just do it. Throwing out weak DOLs isn't really going to work unless a lot of Clerics are doing it. I'm not advanced along far into HK, but looking at a fight like Murdantix which involves a lot of AE healing, why would you ever bother with MOA-icar ?? You're just better dropping the bigger heals down at the cost to DPS.

    Basically what i'm saying is in most scenarios you'd just have 2 Inquisicars, or 1 or whatever, there doesn't seem to be much point in half-n-halfs.
    Last edited by Malark; 12-09-2011 at 03:34 AM.

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