So... how goes the Mien of Aggression testing?

[Kolfinna]

How's everyone doing? Has everyone been sending in their progress reports to Mr. Zinbik? Has anyone stumbled upon a reason why this emergency hotfix shouldn't be added to the live servers immediately?

I'm just concerned that we might've not been testing hard enough or theory crafting well enough to get the datas that the class-balancey folks need. Is the ball still in our court, or are we waiting for the next move? I hope this tiny little hotfix hasn't been waiting on a conclusive "All Clear" from the Cleric forums. Wouldn't we just have egg on our face!

I mean, everything seems to be working just fine on the PTS. Am I missing something? Is there something we, as a community, can do to help speed this process along?

[p3t3r1]

I stopped tracking after the 25% change from 20%. I guess I could start another thread

[Sarrom]

How's everyone doing? Has everyone been sending in their progress reports to Mr. Zinbik? Has anyone stumbled upon a reason why this emergency hotfix shouldn't be added to the live servers immediately?

I'm just concerned that we might've not been testing hard enough or theory crafting well enough to get the datas that the class-balancey folks need. Is the ball still in our court, or are we waiting for the next move? I hope this tiny little hotfix hasn't been waiting on a conclusive "All Clear" from the Cleric forums. Wouldn't we just have egg on our face!

I mean, everything seems to be working just fine on the PTS. Am I missing something? Is there something we, as a community, can do to help speed this process along?

I made a small post about my results in one of the stickied threads. Was before the change to MoA from 20% to 25% when I was comparing 51inq10sent5cab to 46inq10sent10cab. I had only gotten to test both specs with archon/bard once for about 5 minutes each, where 51inq won by about 75dps albeit SH crit % skewed the results a little, and me not turning the parse off in time on 46inq. I also think I could've done more dps as 46inq changing my rotation around, vex may not be worth using with full raid buffs for this spec.

As far as how much damage clerics will be able to dish out with MoA added..it'll be more than fine. I think most clerics will be satisfied with how much dps they can contribute to the raid provided they actually play one of the few viable specs. The select few who expect to be competing for 1st place provided everyone in the raid is equally geared/skilled will be sorely disappointed though. I didnt notice any issues/bugs when testing MoA.

Need more rogues/mage/warrior toons to log on PTS to help clerics out with raid buffs when parsing.

[Dorai]

"It got a little better, but we're still 15-20% behind"

/thread

[jMerliN]

The math and testing show that we should get roughly a 20% increase in DPS as inquisitor. It affects other souls differently and it makes hybrids stronger (as they generally have less access to large +% damage modifiers).

All in all, it has pluses but it feels hastily thought up and has significant drawbacks:

1. It comes with an increase in cooldown on the miens, making MoH/MoL dancing for tanks much, much more dangerous thus reducing our utility.
2. It adds an additional -20% healing even though it's exclusive with MoH. This alllows us to provide almost competitive ST PvP DPS but massively reduces our already weak survivability in DPS specs.
3. It is completely dismissive of issues hundreds of clerics have raised in many hundreds of posts.

I don't think any of the above are acceptable at all.

This is a slap on the hand for us in PvP. It's saying "you cannot be competitive in dishing out damage without being even thinner wet paper than you already are." Other callings have competitive DPS without a gimmick of using buffs that reduce survivability (AoA +% damage taken and we can't use the AoT, MoA -20% heals, think Healing Breath/Spray). All in all, clerics are in a very, very weak position in PvP right now with only a niche of healing in coordinated group v group PvP remaining. We really need a true DPS increase, not a gimmicky buff nor a gimmick that requires us to massively sacrifice survivability. This change is bad. The only good that comes from it is that we can DPS better in pure DPS specs in PvE raiding (that including some less good builds becoming a lot better than they were). The problem statement is: "cleric ST DPS is very poor in comparison to every other calling." The change we got doesn't actually fix this.

[The Widgit]

From what I can tell everyone seems to agree this is overall a step in the right direction with room for further improvements and tweaking. I don't personally see any reason why this change shouldn't go live asap in its current state.

[jMerliN]

From what I can tell everyone seems to agree this is overall a step in the right direction with room for further improvements and tweaking. I don't personally see any reason why this change shouldn't go live asap in its current state.

That's not at all the overall consensus. I'd say the dot product of the "right direction" and the direction this change is going would be at best 0.

[The Widgit]

That's not at all the overall consensus. I'd say the dot product of the "right direction" and the direction this change is going would be at best 0.

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you here, but it almost sounds as if you want to reject this change completely and go "back to the drawing board" as it were. Is that correct? If not, one might assume the change is worth adding now with further changes and adjustments to be made in the future. If so, elaborate on what direction the correct change should make, if we were to disregard this one.

[Assassins]

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you here, but it almost sounds as if you want to reject this change completely and go "back to the drawing board" as it were. Is that correct? If not, one might assume the change is worth adding now with further changes and adjustments to be made in the future. If so, elaborate on what direction the correct change should make, if we were to disregard this one.

I think the concern is that this doesn't really adjust or fix any of the fundamental issues of our class and that they are gonna slap this in and say ok now we don't need to change anything for 1.7 at all.


And based on Trion's history in regards to this class it's 100% justified to be concerned....they are gonna give this to us and tell us to be happy.

[Eughe]

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you here, but it almost sounds as if you want to reject this change completely and go "back to the drawing board" as it were. Is that correct? If not, one might assume the change is worth adding now with further changes and adjustments to be made in the future. If so, elaborate on what direction the correct change should make, if we were to disregard this one.

The correct direction has been stated numerous times. In fact, in 1.4, and 1.6, as well as post 1.6 numerous threads with suggestions have been given as to what should, could and needs to be done to clerics. Math and all.

And through out all those pages of wisdom, trion chose the easiest, and most rejected idea as a fix.
Temporary or not, its an off kind of bad. Its satisfies a particular aspect of cleric problems that the pve crowd has complained about, but ignores the more pertinent problems the cleric class has as a whole, while giving an unnecessary drawback.

If that is the right direction, god only knows what the wrong one is.

[The Widgit]

And who is to say there aren't already other changes in the pipeline, other than Trion themselves (which they haven't)? I think there's a lot of assumptions being made.

[Whizack]

And who is to say there aren't already other changes in the pipeline, other than Trion themselves (which they haven't)? I think there's a lot of assumptions being made.

Actually you are the one making assumptions: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3415024

[seruum]

ok yes increase in damage is good i like it alot most clerics will the 20% healing reduction is unneeded since we already losing 50% from MoH also even with this new mien we will still need some scaling fixes trion or we will be back in a sorry state next tier of raids because our damage doesnt scale with our gear as much as other callings like i said props for the extra damage would like to have a more stable dealing with the base problems tho you saying this will be a final patch and should not be taken into thought of what might come next is a little insulting put the patch through and the set to fixing our scaling please

[The Widgit]

Actually you are the one making assumptions: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3415024

That's funny he clearly says other changes are possible in the future as they continuously evaluate the state of the game so ... dot dot dot ...

[Assassins]

That's funny he clearly says other changes are possible in the future as they continuously evaluate the state of the game so ... dot dot dot ...

i don't know how long you have been around, but it's hard to be optimistic about cleric changes anymore.

I like your attitude though, reminds me of me 4 months ago