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Thread: Remove damage nerf from mien of leadership for pvp

  1. #1
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    Default Remove damage nerf from mien of leadership for pvp

    Was just thinking to myself that it would be nice if clerics could melee pvp with mien of leadership without the massive loss, or rather complete lack, of ability to do any damage. One of the roles of a cleric is to be able to be "tanky" with a shield, as warrriors are. Its a shame that warriors have many viable pvp specs with shield, due to the ability to still do great dps, while clerics are stuck either healing, or caster dps/support in pvp. Melee clerics just dont have half the survivability that warriors do in pvp, and are therefore almost useless. Going justicar with a shield and mien of leadership doesnt work, since we do almost no damage, and very low healing in that spec.

    Take away the damage penalty from mien of leadership to give clerics a viable role in pvp as melee. Using the shield alone will be a huge dps loss even without the damage reduction from mol, as we lose half the spellpower/attack power vs 2h or 1h/totem. Warriors have multiple god-mode pvp sword and board specs, clerics have none. Im not saying to make clerics warriors, just let us use the tools we have and the ability to pvp with sword and shield.

  2. #2
    Telaran Relinquish's Avatar
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    No.

    /10char.

  3. #3
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    When Warriors can heal as much as a Cleric tank then you can do some damage.... until then... no fkin way

  4. #4
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    Default asdf

    lol at other classes posting there opinion when they have no idea how bad mien of leadership is.

    pvp cleric using MOL in rank 8 gear vs any other pvp class in rank 6 or 7 gear would smash said cleric because leadership is worthless..

    about the only choice you have is to roll support or ranged dps. the melee dps isnt there

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relinquish View Post
    No.

    /10char.
    Agreed, the entire point of the damage nerf on MOL is so that you cannot have 12k HP as a DPSer lol, that would be completely and utterly absurd, oh and OP, that too.

    PS: I am a cleric and even I understand that the change you are suggesting is a bad idea.
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  6. #6
    Sword of Telara taugrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefe View Post
    Melee clerics just dont have half the survivability that warriors do in pvp, and are therefore almost useless. Going justicar with a shield and mien of leadership doesnt work, since we do almost no damage, and very low healing in that spec.
    Justicar-spec'd Clerics have excellent survivability.
    Justicar-spec'd Clerics can heal very effectively in PVP.
    High-ranked Justicar-spec'd Clerics can also output substantial DPS.

    I wrote a Guide and have been posting videos how to play Justicar melee healer in PVP, it's in my siggy.

    You do not want to use a 1H + shield nor MoL in PVP, the mechanics favor the opposite approach.

    Here's a relevant section from my Guide using 1H + shield:
    Stick with a 2H weapon, because the healing from Salvation and Reparation scale based on weapon damage.

    You might wonder whether itís worth swapping to 1H + shield to boost survivability. The short answer is no. Your damage and therefore damage-based healing would take a significant hit, and moreover your survivability wonít increase that much.

    In other games, where block is avoidance, swapping to 1H + shield provides a huge benefit. In RIFT, block is mitigation, and for a Cleric without the talents for increasing block, the base block % is anemic (~1%). So all you practically get for swapping from 2H to 1H is armor, but Cleric shields donít have much of that stat and armor is only good against Physical damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by HighLife View Post
    lol at other classes posting there opinion when they have no idea how bad mien of leadership is.
    Why do you care how "bad mien of leadership is" when Mien of Honor is awesome for PVP? Most Clerics put some (and in my case, a lot of) points in Justicar primarily for Doctrine healing, and MoH synergizes with Doctrines while MoL does not.

    It doesn't matter what class you play, the suggestion by the OP is absurdly imbalanced.
    Last edited by taugrim; 09-10-2011 at 12:10 AM.
    Taugrim
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    Many of the responses are completely wrong. In full pvp gear and pvp sigil, with shield, 1h, and MoL, i have about 9k health. Warriors in r8 have, guess what..over 8k health. MoL is the only way we can get the high armor and survivability of the sword and board setup, with the extra block and magic damage mitigation. They can do a bit of aoe healing, but NOTHING like an inquisicar can do, and the self heals are small enough to be laughable.

    The main point would be, an actually tank viable spec with shield, decent damage(even w/o the damage penalty, damage will be alot lower due to no spellpower on shield). The point is, we have a tanking soul, but it is useless in pvp, unlike warriors who have the option to run tanky specs in pvp.

    Even without the damage penalty, dps in this spec would be much lower than a warrior with sword and board, but again, im not asking for a carbon copy of a warrior, just the option for clerics to be able to "tank"in pvp viably, with our own flavor.
    Last edited by stefe; 09-11-2011 at 03:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickboy101 View Post
    Agreed, the entire point of the damage nerf on MOL is so that you cannot have 12k HP as a DPSer lol, that would be completely and utterly absurd, oh and OP, that too.

    PS: I am a cleric and even I understand that the change you are suggesting is a bad idea.

    wouldnt that be the same as having a guy in plate with 10k hp and a shield dishing out 900 magical dps??


    cuz god forbid if that ever happened... oh wait....
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    wouldnt that be the same as having a guy in plate with 10k hp and a shield dishing out 900 magical dps??


    cuz god forbid if that ever happened... oh wait....
    dont post if you are this ignorant about the topic.....justicar specd with shield wont do 900 dps..maybe half that, then cut that in half again against pvp geared players. Wtb some intelligent replies.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefe View Post
    dont post if you are this ignorant about the topic.....justicar specd with shield wont do 900 dps..maybe half that, then cut that in half again against pvp geared players. Wtb some intelligent replies.
    He's talking about warriors.

    Anyway damage nerf or not, MoL kinda sucks in pvp. You get more endurance, but your heal sucks. And extra armor doesn't do much for you atm.

  11. #11
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    As a cleric I have to say um no.

    Granted it would be fun to be completely over powered like the early clerics of vanguard but um yea I don't think so.

    But as long as we are asking, can I get star fall for my druid?

  12. #12
    Sword of Telara taugrim's Avatar
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    Stefe, you have a lot of baseline assumptions about your class that are off-the-mark.

    Aside from which giving Clerics high HP, high mitigation, and good damage on top of their healing would make for a very OP class in PVP.

    Quote Originally Posted by stefe View Post
    One of the roles of a cleric is to be able to be "tanky" with a shield, as warrriors are.
    Clerics can already be tanky in PVP, and it doesn't require a shield.

    If you are trying to use a shield as a melee Cleric, you're doing it wrong.

    Per my Guide:
    Stick with a 2H weapon, because the healing from Salvation and Reparation scale based on weapon damage.

    You might wonder whether it’s worth swapping to 1H + shield to boost survivability. The short answer is no. Your damage and therefore damage-based healing would take a significant hit, and moreover your survivability won’t increase that much.

    In other games, where block is avoidance, swapping to 1H + shield provides a huge benefit. In RIFT, block is mitigation, and for a Cleric without the talents for increasing block, the base block % is anemic (~1%). So all you practically get for swapping from 2H to 1H is armor, but Cleric shields don’t have much of that stat and armor is only good against Physical damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by stefe View Post
    Going justicar with a shield and mien of leadership doesnt work, since we do almost no damage, and very low healing in that spec.
    Justicar healing is actually very effective in PVP, it's why most specs have it as a 2nd or 3rd tree (or in my case 1st tree).

    Quote Originally Posted by stefe View Post
    Take away the damage penalty from mien of leadership to give clerics a viable role in pvp as melee.
    There are already multiple viable roles for Clerics as a PVP melee. The bread-n-butter Sham/Just/Inq for MDPS. My M*A*S*H spec. Etc.
    Last edited by taugrim; 09-11-2011 at 09:47 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Clerics should be able to call down firestorms and cloak. Cuz there shouldn't be anything unique about each class right?
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  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    i play pvp healer (ward/sent/templar) and can easy tank at least 2 ppl with selfheals
    (also warden passive skill to heal 150% of wisdom when they crit dmg me is almost always on)

    today i stolen stones at steppes and run all way with at least 3ppl attacking me and couldnt even get me 50%hp...last weekend at codex escalation i was making funny provoking ppl that replied with wish we should be nerfed:P

    we cant dps at heal spec...but sure we can tank a lot of dmg and heal group same time
    In pvp clerics are best for heal or aoe dps/cc (cabas) and this way we get top heal or top dmg
    ....im fine with what we can already do

  15. #15
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    Another thought popped into my head. If the damage penalty is removed from MoL, they would have to keep the healing penalty. I can see that justicar spec, with 3x into a healing treee, would be op without the nerf to heals. But i still say they should remove the damage penalty, although our pve dps would be extremely high if this were to happen ,so its probly a damage/threat balancing issue. Guess i dont see an easy way to implement.......trion...help!!!
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