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Thread: Cleric DPS issues that are really lowering my desire to continue playing

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Bobopedic's Avatar
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    Default Cleric DPS issues that are really lowering my desire to continue playing

    This isn't a qq post about low DPS issues - it's soul mechanics that is my problem.
    I have two main gripes with cleric DPS at the moment. One of them was introduced with the most recent major patch, but the other has existed since release.

    1. Forced into 51-point specs for every DPS soul

    This issue really causes problems because it undermines what Rift is about. Instead of creating builds utilizing three souls and combining synergies and whatnot, every Shaman build, every Druid build, every Cabalist build, and most Inquisitor builds require 51 points to be competitive. The reason is because all of these trees have ridiculous scaling talents and 51-point abilities.

    Here's how to make a cleric DPS build in Rift at the moment:
    Pick a dps soul. Put 51 points in it.
    Was this soul Inquisitor?
    No → Put 11 points in Inquisitor.
    Yes → Put 10 points in Sentinel.
    Blindfold yourself, randomly select a third soul, fill out the amazing tier 1 passive.

    There's really no spec that you could try that would parse higher than these. Cookie-cutter, the brainchild of mixing and matching three souls, is outparsed by 51-point builds. You can't try mixing Cabalist and Inquisitor for an "Everything-Ranged" spec. Cabalist abilities scale with points in the tree, and Inquisitor as well. Something like 33 Inq / 33 Cab build will be weaker in both AoE and ST aspects compared to their 51-point counterparts. Where rogues and warriors can continually come up with new specs, we've really hit a ceiling. Any ability worth using requires several points in its respective tree, or just isn't worth using at all. Tell me, which one of you throws 16 intro druid to grab Eruption of Life (and don't get me started on how terrible the Druid tree is. No synergy with anything, not even its fellow melee soul)? And which one of you has built a competitive DPS spec utilizing Dark Water? Nobody...because you can't. Creativity is dead.

    2. Our melee specs (which mostly parse higher than our ranged) are literally 1-button specs.

    Everyone jokes about how Warriors and Rogues play 1-button specs and top the meters. Obviously this is an exaggeration: Sabdancer has a rotation that takes getting used to and definitely uses more than 1 buttons. Warriors and Rogues by class mechanics need to use at least 2 buttons because of Attack Points/Combo Points. But as a Shaman/Druid, I literally press one button to DPS. I don't have to keep up self-buffs. There are no debuffs/dots that I have to worry about overwriting. Frozen Wrath and Lightning Hammer and Sanction Heretic's dots last as long as their cooldowns! I can just throw them in my macro and not even care! Vex, which is actually one ability that you cannot just throw in a macro, is not even worth casting in melee builds. I literally press 2 buttons during Murdantix – My main attack spam macro, and charge when necessary. I press -one- button on Plutonus. One button. Tell me, how is this engaging? Or fun? Or require skill? Or timing? I have no rotation. I make a macro, list abilities by priority, and spam that one button.

    Melee clerics need some sort of Combo-Point mechanic, or some sort of build-up/finisher way of fighting. Or give us DoTs without CD that we shouldn't overwrite (remove CD on Frozen Wrath?). Or self-buffs to keep up, a la SLI. Something, please, because spamming one button isn't fun.

    It's been like this since launch - just look at Cookie Cutter. Nothing has been done to fix this. Did Trion seriously intend on people DPSing like this? With one button?
    Last edited by Bobopedic; 08-30-2011 at 08:28 PM.
    Hiphop - Cleric
    Nasa - Warrior
    of <Dominance>, Faemist

  2. #2
    Plane Walker InferiOmega's Avatar
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    I agree wholeheartedly. Additionally, resource management is nonexistent for any melee cleric build, you can just throw whatever version of the mana on hit off-GCD ability at the bottom of that spam macro and scroll your mousewheel to victory, sticking any other versions of that same ability into your aoe macro so they don't overlap.

    Granted, for tanking and support healing, having that functionality allows for maximum situational awareness, but that's not exactly the point.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Runkett's Avatar
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    46 inq (10/10 sha/sen) is very viable, maybe 45 shaman too (but less so).

    Still very deep in the tree, but ruins or 51 only premise.

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    Plane Touched Aubie's Avatar
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    I actually like this aspect, but that is because I only rarely get to play my pure dps role. (51 sham).

    its most useful for support and tanking as mentioned earlier because i can basically pause, prepare, anticipate raid damage/curses/movement/organize. I'm usually the one calling actions or activity during a raid and having a very easy or nonexistant rotation while still pulling the numbers makes my life a lot easier.

    sure, if you were in a raid as pure dps and nothing more, you may get a bit bored, but maybe break it up a bit, swap with the raid healers ocasionally, listen to music, take on more responsibility. bring and place banners or philters whatever allows you to make the most of the fact that your normal attack is one button mash.
    Auberon ~ Mage-wannabe Cleric
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  5. #5
    Rift Chaser Bobopedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runkett View Post
    46 inq (10/10 sha/sen) is very viable, maybe 45 shaman too (but less so).

    Still very deep in the tree, but ruins or 51 only premise.
    I'm aware, which is why I said most inq builds
    Hiphop - Cleric
    Nasa - Warrior
    of <Dominance>, Faemist

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser Bobopedic's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Aubie View Post
    I actually like this aspect, but that is because I only rarely get to play my pure dps role. (51 sham).

    its most useful for support and tanking as mentioned earlier because i can basically pause, prepare, anticipate raid damage/curses/movement/organize. I'm usually the one calling actions or activity during a raid and having a very easy or nonexistant rotation while still pulling the numbers makes my life a lot easier.

    sure, if you were in a raid as pure dps and nothing more, you may get a bit bored, but maybe break it up a bit, swap with the raid healers ocasionally, listen to music, take on more responsibility. bring and place banners or philters whatever allows you to make the most of the fact that your normal attack is one button mash.
    I both tank and dps for my guild. This isnt about what i can do during raids, it is about the state of dps clerics. Having to call out raid mechanics over vent or being able to use banners and feel "active" is a terrible excuse for a mindless 1 button mash "rotation".
    Hiphop - Cleric
    Nasa - Warrior
    of <Dominance>, Faemist

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Actually we do better dps than rogue at rank 8.....

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    Rift Master Spyrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobopedic View Post
    I both tank and dps for my guild. This isnt about what i can do during raids, it is about the state of dps clerics. Having to call out raid mechanics over vent or being able to use banners and feel "active" is a terrible excuse for a mindless 1 button mash "rotation".
    If you really want to break up the boredom, play a hybrid.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shendream View Post
    Actually we do better dps than rogue at rank 8.....
    L2Read ......

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shendream View Post
    Actually we do better dps than rogue at rank 8.....
    ..................

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara
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    The all or nothing state of affairs is a bit lame.

    The few abilities that would make hybridizing beneficial are basically negated by 51 point abilities, e.g., Jolt vs Thorns. You gain one source of DPS at the cost of another, which is obviously counter-productive.

    Honestly it doesn't really bother me that Cleric doesn't have any charge or finishers, I just wish we did slightly more damage in our rotation to make up the lack one. We have a more cooldown based rotation, so it isn't like we lack some novelty, it just isn't as explicit when compared to the other classes. If we had a slight increase in our melee rotation to make it on par with the average combo/finisher damage for a warrior/rogue I would be set.

    At the same time, Trion did do a decent job at create 51 point soul builds that do work well. The passives are pretty solid, which isn't the case for many of the other callings that still must hybridize to be competitive.

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Khierra's Avatar
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    Well I do agree with you mostly...

    However I know there are quite many that like the 1 button macro and want it that way. Also we are not forced to make a macro if we don't want to and then you will have alot of management to do

    However I prefer to have more to do then one button spam, but that doesn't mean that I represent everyone

    Moreso the 51 only souls (with few exceptions) are boring indeed. This should be changed so we get more diversity.

    /k

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Definitely agree with the things being said here. I try to avoid playing pure DPS whenever possible (51 Shaman for me). I think I have 4 buttons that I use with that build lol. 1 - ST DPS Macro, 2 - AOE DPS Macro, 3 - Rage of the North, 4 - Trinket. You could even put Rage of the North and your trinket into your DPS macro if you really wanted to be lazy.

    Gotta say though, 1 button DPS is pretty nice for Sicaron at low %'s when my heart is pounding!
    Isanla - 50 Cleric - Waiting on Diablo - Freeholme - http://waitingondiablo.guildlaunch.com/

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Majsharan's Avatar
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    This has gotten "worse" recently imo.

    I played the game for awhile (with crappy gear) as something like 38 inq/ 15sent and 13 purifier and was getting about 500 dps. After a few patches however, they really started to go down to where I couldn't get above 450 with better gear.

    Now i am doing 750ish dps with 51inq/10cab/5sent with t2 dps gear.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple
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    Yeah, being stuck with a 51 point soul does suck, esp when we're still quite a bit behind the other DPS classes. It would be nice to have a bit more variety with other 31 pt builds that would be viable as well (the 33 inq/33 cab idea would be interesting). As for the macro, I don't see any problem with that. No one is forced to make a macro so those that want it can use it and those who don't, well...don't.

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