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Thread: Cleric DPS issues that are really lowering my desire to continue playing

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isriam View Post
    this thread makes me laugh. i quit my rogue and rolled a cleric. my cleric stomps all over my rogue in almost every aspect. clerics are beautiful, aside from a few minor tweaks. go play something else so you have an idea of what class balance is and enjoy what you currently have before you get it nerfed with your complaints.
    Did you read the thread? Its about how clerics are played, not how good they are.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elco View Post
    Thank you for all the replies so far. but it seems some of you are missing the point. Ill try and make it clear

    I thnk that with 4 pure DPS souls (yes i am aware of all the hybridization potential that every other calling also has) that we should be much more on par - gear for gear with other callings than we are.

    I also know other callings have lots of DPS issues themselves. but this is about clerics. right now clerics are dead last gear for gear in our best spec out of all 4 callings. and we only have 1 role where we can come that close and its pure melee.

    I know there are inquisitor builds that do ok. thats my point. all of our dps roles do ok. but they dont compete when matched against any equally geared calling. they just do OK.

    yes we have 3 healing souls. yes we dominate healing in gneral.

    this is rift. we have 7 souls for a reason. but I not seeing that promise fulfilled. thats the issue here. i dont care what wow did or what EQ did.

    I want to see what rift can do to fulfill the promise of having 7 souls on 4 callings that can all fit into eachothers shoes, if they so chose.
    OT --- Can be fixed by somehow making LE/Fervor do something for mana users, energy redux is ~30% of energy users dps, approx 0-0.5% for mana users. In a raid situation.

    On Topic-- However this entire thread isn't about lack of dps for clerics, it's about lack of general "fun" in playing a cleric that has competitive dps and lack of mixing and matching I.E. an effective 38/28 build, or like the old cookie cutter 31/24/11 etc and eliminating 1 button spam macros. Although 51/10/5 inq/sent/ward or the 46/10/10 build or 45/11/10 or whatever it is seems competitive and non macro spammable really, well less so
    Last edited by timc0907; 09-02-2011 at 12:17 PM.

  3. #33
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    This is a case of the grass is greener on the other side.

    Do you realize that rogues have 1 viable DPS spec? Its sabdancer. Warriors have 1-2 viable DPS spec's and its bleeds.

    Clerics have a huge range of what they can do. Open your eyes, I see druids, shaman, shamicar, cab, tons of DPS options.

  4. #34
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    Man I love being a cleric. I can kill most players without trying and entire groups can never kill me. Thanks Trion!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isriam View Post
    This is a case of the grass is greener on the other side.

    Do you realize that rogues have 1 viable DPS spec? Its sabdancer. Warriors have 1-2 viable DPS spec's and its bleeds.

    Clerics have a huge range of what they can do. Open your eyes, I see druids, shaman, shamicar, cab, tons of DPS options.
    All of which are below a rogue, war, and mage in their respective specs...
    Nerdrage QQ tears make me happy!

  6. #36
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    you're a cleric. you can queue up for 4 different roles in a group. you can tank HK, you can heal better than any class. do you want to do ALL roles the BEST? seriously, stop whining.

    that being said, there are things that need tweaking. not nerfing, not reworked. the cleric class is the most well rounded group in rift.

    so you don't want to be a 51 cabalist that can do 2-3k aoe. then be a 51 shaman. be a 51 druid. thats 3 specs that do almost the exact same DPS. who cares if you go all or nothing. as someone else stated, first people whined that they couldn't be 51 pt specs, now they whine that they have to be 51 pt specs.

    go read the other class forums to get an idea of the state of their class, and be glad you aren't getting nerfed.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isriam View Post
    This is a case of the grass is greener on the other side.

    Do you realize that rogues have 1 viable DPS spec? Its sabdancer. Warriors have 1-2 viable DPS spec's and its bleeds.

    Clerics have a huge range of what they can do. Open your eyes, I see druids, shaman, shamicar, cab, tons of DPS options.
    Yes, rogues have the 1 sabdancer spec that puts out viable dps.

    Warriors however (I am one), have about 5. And similarly, we have 4 pure dps souls.

    I feel bad for the clerics in that their rotations are 1 button - I value involved gameplay - it's very rewarding as screwing up my rotation ends up in huge losses in dps. But I'm sorry I don't feel too too bad about you guys not having more than 3-4 viable specs.

    I'd say Trion's priorities should be this, but hey it's just my opinion:
    Look at rogues first for talent redesigns and create more viable specs with different rotations - 1 spec sucks (we were all in cookie cutters at one time, rogues are still in one - ranged isn't even viable at all as a rogue).
    Look at clerics second for gameplay redesigns. Then look at warriors again and fix AP scaling

    edit: forgot to include i think the top priority should be to allow all callings to produce similar dps based on risk vs. reward (melee vs. ranged, difficulty of rotation vs. 1 button macro)
    Last edited by Flitch; 09-02-2011 at 07:45 PM.

  8. #38
    Rift Chaser Bobopedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isriam View Post
    you're a cleric. you can queue up for 4 different roles in a group. you can tank HK, you can heal better than any class. do you want to do ALL roles the BEST? seriously, stop whining.

    that being said, there are things that need tweaking. not nerfing, not reworked. the cleric class is the most well rounded group in rift.

    so you don't want to be a 51 cabalist that can do 2-3k aoe. then be a 51 shaman. be a 51 druid. thats 3 specs that do almost the exact same DPS. who cares if you go all or nothing. as someone else stated, first people whined that they couldn't be 51 pt specs, now they whine that they have to be 51 pt specs.

    go read the other class forums to get an idea of the state of their class, and be glad you aren't getting nerfed.
    i was going to quote like 4 replies but this probably sums up all of them.

    did any of you actually read my post? what the **** does being able to heal or tank have to do with this? what do other classes have to do with this? nothing.

    Going from forcing everyone into cookie cutter to forcing everyone into 51 shaman doesn't exactly fix the problem. it just moves it.
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  9. #39
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    There's always going to be a "top build". Warriors don't have several different specs to choose from, they have just been changed with each patch lately and are forced to accommodate the latest bug or nerf with a new optimal build. It's the same with rogues. They both have very, very narrow choices and usually there's always a "top dog" cookie cutter build. There are of course deviations like AoE heavy builds or encounter-specific builds (we have the same).

    Granted some of our trees could use a bit of diversity in terms of rotations, but even WoW has it's fair share of bland and boring to play talent trees (BC destro locks or BM hunters anyone?). Or even one up, it'd be awesome to see some of the more useless talents we have get some love and utility.

    I don't necessarily think we're in a bad position in terms of versatility or build diversity though. We probably have more raid viable specs and utility than any other calling by a long shot. One thing that would be nice though is a revision of the melee trees in specific as I think they're one of the biggest culprits when it comes to 1-button macro kings. But I personally really enjoyed coming up with several -icar specs and on occasion some encounter specific builds.

    Our class does not get enough attention with each patch to warrant FotM builds like warriors are having fun with atm though. Not sure it's something we should be jealous of.

  10. #40
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    With the dps changes, I erased my Inquisitor spec because the dps was not impacting. Cabalist for the win baby.

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  11. #41
    Plane Walker diiorio's Avatar
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    ROgue is definatly NOT a 1 button job. You need to lower armor build Points then utilize a proper finisher.

    I find cleric much easier, as well as unbalanced. My cleric shouldn't be out Dpsing my pure dps rogue or mage. It shouldn't have high level heals and DPS at the same time. Otherwise it is unbalanced.

    As cleric i sit back and yawn, it lacks challenge in most cases. I utilixe it more as a deep healer with some attack abilities which is what the cleric is. Luckily it is starting to balance out, earlier on in the game Clerics were so Over powered and unbalanced it was a shame. It was the build those who wanted an easy way out and noone really gave respect to skill wise.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by diiorio View Post
    ROgue is definatly NOT a 1 button job. You need to lower armor build Points then utilize a proper finisher.

    I find cleric much easier, as well as unbalanced. My cleric shouldn't be out Dpsing my pure dps rogue or mage. It shouldn't have high level heals and DPS at the same time. Otherwise it is unbalanced.

    As cleric i sit back and yawn, it lacks challenge in most cases. I utilixe it more as a deep healer with some attack abilities which is what the cleric is. Luckily it is starting to balance out, earlier on in the game Clerics were so Over powered and unbalanced it was a shame. It was the build those who wanted an easy way out and noone really gave respect to skill wise.
    Thank you for pointing out the OP's entire point.... "As cleric i sit back and yawn, it lacks challenge in most cases".

    Off Topic - Clerics "can" tank in HK, sure, so can rogues and warriors and warriors are the best at it, while also being the best dps, go figure. Clerics are healing machines sure, no one complained when mages could out aoe heal a Senticar while tank healing as well as a ward/sent and doing more dps than archons and bards ALL at the same time. Besides clerics/mages are already almost on par with warriors and rogues, it simply LE/Fervor that is pushing energy users above us. Don't believe me? Parse your warrior friends raid spec on a dummy, now parse your dps spec. Check disparity. Find a bard, have him put fervor up. Watch your warrior buddy gain 30% on you while you do the same.

  13. #43
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    As a raider, I am more concerned with being able to make a viable dps contribution when I raid. I can do that now, and I am happy.

  14. #44
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    I quite like the Cabalist rotation with 6-7 buttons in the single target and 3-5 in the aoe.
    It could perhaps use a reduction in Curse of Solitude cooldown to make Aoe a little more engaging, and they need to fix Curse of Discord so it actually lasts the listed 15 seconds instead of 10.
    The main issue with Cabalist is while its very "viable" in any aoe situation, (I tend to find myself top on the meters for trash or aoe fights) the single target is far too low, which is fine, 1 Aoe only spec.


    Inquisitor rotation was ok to play, but 1.4 changes to bolt spam have seen it reduced to a 3 button rotation in HK gear and again the single target dps is too low.
    My ideas; Scale Harsh discipline with ritual of judgment, have Nysyrs Rebuke reduced to 30 seconds and increase the damage on vex to put it back in the rotation, Ballance this to bring the soul up to around 100-200 dps under current top mages souls, and you have a 6 button "viable" ranged spec.


    The 1 button 51 druid does not scale in raids this feels like bug and its around 600 dps behind current rogues/warriors,
    all you can do for more dps is.... Push the button harder?
    Ideas for more buttons!
    Remove the cooldown and intial damage on Eruption of life, add weapon damage to the "proc damage" and let the pets melee hits proc stacks for triple damage.
    Perhaps have crag hammer also stack a dot that increases bombard damage by 5% per stack 10 times but is consumed when bombard is used.
    this gets you to 3 buttons..... Imo druid should be top single target CLERIC dps since it lacks Mobility, suffers from poor aoe dps and pet control/death issues. Perhaps 100-200 dps under warriors/rogues single target.


    Shaman.... meh who knows how to change this the Vengance ST to AOE is nice, its still around 500 dps behind warriors/rogues in equal t1 raid gear.
    need to find some way to remove Sanction heretic from the rotation!
    Make massive blow remove all shaman dots/bleeds on the target but long memory causes the next massive blow used in 10 seconds deal 200% of its damage over the next 15 seconds as air?
    Perhaps make jolt a 3 second cast thats reduced to 0 by crits.
    So you would, have to time massive blow, and pickup jolt procs, 3 buttons?
    Whatever you do to make it use more than 1 button, Would be nice to see shaman pickup an extra 300 dps


    Rather than Raw dps Trion could add some utility to these specs perhaps make the Druid Debuffs Viable dps.
    Could have druid 51 Strength of the fae a sort of Guard, you take 50% less damage and you and your pet take 25% of the damage from a friendly player for 30 secs.
    or have the shaman heal proc on personal melee crits and heal the lowest raid member
    Perhaps make the 6 shaman auras do somthing apart from get wiped out by Archons.
    Shaman vengance of the Piercing cold 1 min cooldown, all of the shamans melee attacks increase the damage the target takes by 10% for 15 seconds (same debuff slot as chloro wild growth)

    the extra buttons don't have to be all dps
    Last edited by Pantaliamon; 09-03-2011 at 08:31 AM.

  15. #45
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    Wanted to bump this thread, now that we're apparently seeing changes that, instead of encouraging hybrids some, is going to push everyone to 51 point builds. I.e. the exact opposite of what was suggested here.

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