+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 16 to 23 of 23
Like Tree2Likes

Thread: Why don't so many Cleric souls have a mechanic?

  1. #16
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MNM View Post
    Thats not special mechanics, thats what some of the souls' spells do.
    So basically, just because purifier SPECIFICALLY focuses on bubbles, it's just what some of the spells do? Same with warden? How are they not mechanics? Because they don't have self buffs that give you hots or bubbles?

    Believe what you want, but there's no need to q_q about clerics being bad when you won't look at the awesomeness right before your eyes.

  2. #17
    MNM
    MNM is offline
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,032

    Default

    Well really I dont care if each soul has/gets its own mechanic, what I do want though is a class mechanic

  3. #18
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MNM View Post
    Well really I dont care if each soul has/gets its own mechanic, what I do want though is a class mechanic
    I'd personally prefer if each Cleric soul had it's own unique mechanic. Due to the Cleric calling as a whole having 3 roles, I think it would be very difficult for Trion to design some kind of class mechanic that works across all Cleric souls without having to revamp the entire calling. May the Vigil help all Clerics if Trion decides to gut ALL Cleric callings and have to rebuild the entire calling from scratch, if only to implement some sort of class mechanic.

    While Warhammer and LOTRO had good ideas with the "If you heal, your damaging abilities get stronger or their cast times get reduced" or "If you deal damage, your healing abilities get stronger or have cast times reduced" mechanic, you ended up with a hybrid dps/healer class that was mediocre at both. I vote to not have this mechanic in Rift. If you think the dps whining is bad now.....

    I'm not very good at brainstorming ideas but, in example, I think that "The Game that Shall Not Be Named" had it right on with Maelstrom Weapon. It was something unique to their Shaman class, gave it options, and actually made it feel like your attacks fueled something.

  4. #19
    Plane Touched Fractus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    195

    Default

    Actually a good point. They seem to have gone for fundamental playstyle differences with the inherent design of the whole game and the way basic mechanics work as Grenadier mentioned. Thing is they could of gone more indepth.

    The pet class could actually work a hell of a lot better than it does, why not have multiple pets? At 50 you're basically using the Satyr, why not make the Faerie better. Why not give us more abilities based around using the pet?

    The Shaman tree could be based around dual wielding? With the current itemisation 2 main handers would work the same stat wise as a hammer.

    The healing tress are good though shield mechanics should be more indepth instead of just a shield, why not give them crit modifiers too with procs on crit or combos on them? Sentinel should not be the only tree with battle res or Serendipity needs to be reworked (it's far too strong) and deluge buffed.

    Justicars still don't have a longish cd ability to grant them 4 convictions instantly like Riff for Bards. As we gear Chloros are equalising and beating -icars on some fights , they can do comparable single target damage and the same amount of healing.

    There isn't one cleric soul that brings a buff (I'm talking auras or hour long buffs, not things like HC as they would be compared to Flaring Power, etc) to a raid which can't be over written more efficiently by another class I think. Maybe soul drain but I think there is a mage buff which can over write it.
    Last edited by Fractus; 08-18-2011 at 08:51 AM.

  5. #20
    Rift Chaser Saralene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MNM View Post
    Well really I dont care if each soul has/gets its own mechanic, what I do want though is a class mechanic
    I feel like that's something the class designers tried to explore, but it would be really hard given the cleric's souls... Cleric can melee and ranged dps, heal, and tank, so how do make a mechanic that can be universally used by and benefit all the souls and their combinations?

    I feel like they are almost there with Convictions; There are so many -icar builds around, and I play a couple -icars myself, for PvE and PvP just because the conviction mechanic adds that extra dimension to make things more fun

    I bet they could make Convictions a class-wide mechanic, make you build convictions by using an ability (damaging or otherwise), and then add some "finishers" or modify abilities/talents to use x # of convictions when casting y ability. This would require an entire re-work of all the souls, but asking for a soul-by-soul mechanic would be just as much work, if not more, on their part.
    Saralene - Cleric || Wolfsbane

  6. #21
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fractus View Post
    The Shaman tree could be based around dual wielding? With the current itemisation 2 main handers would work the same stat wise as a hammer.
    I'd love this if they took the time to implement it. Though for myself, it would only be for aesthetic purposes as compared to functionality. The 2-handed blunt weapons in this game look atrocious; Martyr's Fist looks like it was designed by someone that's in a high-school level 3D-rendering class and the Mace of Frozen Power resembles a toilet plunger. I'm also horribly disappointed on most of the 1.4 epic recipes that came out; Oathsmasher looks terrible as do the rest of the recipes. Recycled graphics of level 20 gear (referring to the armor pieces by the way). Yuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fractus View Post
    Justicars still don't have a longish cd ability to grant them 4 convictions instantly like Riff for Bards. As we gear Chloros are equalising and beating -icars on some fights , they can do comparable single target damage and the same amount of healing.
    I wish Justicars had more abilities that used Convictions. Anytime that I'm tanking, I'm at 3-4 Convictions for about 90% of the fight (I'm only guesstimating here and therefore not an exact value) with nothing else to use them for other than the 51-point talent or an occassional group spot heal. Whoopee. Would be nice if we had something like "Charges your weapon with holy energy. Your damage-dealing abilities deal an additional X amount of Life damage. Consumes 1 Conviction per attack. Conviction may not be gained while this is active. This ability is off the global cooldown." Something like that. Something that will provide Justicars with a reason to use their Convictions for when they don't need to heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fractus View Post
    There isn't one cleric soul that brings a buff (I'm talking auras or hour long buffs, not things like HC as they would be compared to Flaring Power, etc) to a raid which can't be over written more efficiently by another class I think. Maybe soul drain but I think there is a mage buff which can over write it.
    I agree with this. While my current schedule doesn't allow me to raid at all, imagine me being a Shaman which does as fair amount of dps less than similar geared rogues or warriors, trying to get into a raid yet having no unique raid buffs that aren't already replaced by some other class. So let's recap:
    1) Low dps compared to other Rogues/Warriors
    2) Nothing to bring to the raid other than damage. See point 1.

    Why on earth would anyone bring a dps cleric to a raid other than to fill an empty spot?
    Last edited by Miraodus; 08-18-2011 at 09:26 AM.

  7. #22
    Shield of Telara
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    663

    Default

    Bard and Archon are the 'support' (i.e. group buff / debuff) classes. If they were going to add another one I'd rather see it go to warriors. Warriors are dps/tanks, rogues are dps/tanks/support, mages are dps/healers/support, we're dps/tanks/healers. If they give us support also then the claims of 'we can do everything' are more valid and warriors are still level with only 2 roles. If they give support to warriors then every class has 3 roles and complaints about us being able to fill more roles are false.

    -----

    If I were going to make a cleric class-mechanic I'd make it similar to charge. Warriors and Rogues both build and consume points; Mages build and consume charge, so if we had a charge-like mechanic the casters would mirror the physical classes.

    Since warriors build points on themselves, rogues build points on their targets, and mages build charge on themselves, I'd make clerics build charge on enemies in order to mirror the mechanics again. Basic heals would add X charge to the person healed and bigger or instant heals would consume X charge off the target. Basic attacks would add X charge to the target and big / burst attacks would consume X charge from the target.

    For specific examples: Warden hots would apply 2 charge to the target per tick or per second (so 4 stacks of ss + hs would build 10 charge per tick). Deluge would consume 20 charge (i.e. 2 ticks or seconds worth) to do an instant medium-sized direct heal.

    Inquisitors would build 5 charge for each BoJ and BoD would consume 25 charge (5 BoJs worth) to do a big instant DD.

    Justicars would add 5 charge to each target healed by reparation (which would be increased to 10 targets) and DoL would consume 20 charge to do a medium-sized direct heal to upto 10 targets.

    This would mean you have to heal (in some way) to use healing 'finsihers' and you'd have to dps to use damaging (or tanking) 'finishers' keeping the two sides seperate. It's somewhat less useful to hybrids (though you could make a 'bard' type soul that would consume charge from an enemy to heal the group).

    ---

    Of course I'd prefer if clerics built charge (called inner focus or spiritual focus) on themselves and then consumed it. That feels like a better mechanic to me even if it would make it similar to mages. You'd build focus by attacking or healing and then you could consume the focus for either a burst heal or a burst nuke. Since you'd be consuming the focus you'd still have to pick one or the other, but you could build focus by attacking and then use it for healing or build focus by healing and then use it to attack. That keeps the hybrid feel of the class.

    Optionally you could have 'stances' that consume focus (i.e. Rage of the North causes all of your abilities to critically hit - consumes focus while active - focus cannot be gained while active), but that directly copies the current mage implementation and I'd rather not do that. Though mage would probably work better for the 'targeted' charge listed above instead of the build-charge-on-self model (so they'd match rogues and we'd match warriors).

    ----

    However, these ideas require a fundamental reworking of the class and it's a bit late for that. It would have been an ability to design into the class from the start - not an ability to try to retro-fit into the class. So, I think trying to add a class-mechanic (or individual soul mechanics) would be a bad idea now.
    Last edited by Minerian; 08-18-2011 at 12:01 PM.

  8. #23
    Shadowlander Berotort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    48

    Default

    Everyone is talking about convictions, but remember we also deal death damage as well and we have a death mechanic, lurking decay. Could work the same way but proc off death damage instead and have different themes of ability. Convictions could focus on healing and buffing while Lurking Decays focus on DPS effects,debuffs, and DoTs. The name lurking decay would have have to be changed as the mechanics name is associated with the Cabalist but both it and the Inquisitor have the ability to deal the damage. This would allow for some interesting hybrids come light and death damage with some interesting hybrid specs. You could have them work like the old Justicar conviction dump "Doctrine of Valeince" if I recall and the more of the mechanic you dump the more effective it would be, be it a DoT or debuff.

    I for one would love to actually think about my rotation of BoJ and BoD to build different charges and actually have to think ahead of time how I have to play the fight. I can see it being quite similar to a inquisacar with a boat load more dps if played right instead of healing.
    Berotort - 60 - Cleric - <Philanthropy>

    I've never been the guy you want to kill. I'm just front of that guy keeping you away from him.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts