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Thread: 51 Justicar - why Inq over Purifier as third?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default 51 Justicar - why Inq over Purifier as third?

    Quickish question. For most Justicar tank builds, most people agree that 51 Justicar and 8 Shaman are the "required" talents, with 7 points to spend in a third tree of your choice. Obviously there are a few specific utility/threat builds that use 44 or less Justi, but vast majority of all-round tank builds are 51/8/something. Yet I see a LOT of people taking 6 Inq for the Armor skills and most people shun 7 Purifier.

    I basically want to know why!

    Inquisitor gives you :

    5% spell crit on damaging moves. I assume this doesnt convert to melee crit with Faith in Action because it's simply a bonus attached to damage, which affects basically just Sovereignty and Bolt of Radiance?
    - Armor of Trechery. 50 Endurance and about 300 armor.
    - Armor of Devotion. Some spellpower/spellcrit for use when DPSing with mein of honor or threat tanking, at the cost of trechery. Good, but Trechery is the reason to take 6 Inq.
    None of the skills that a 6 Inq gives make any difference to tanking, perhaps slightly more threat on a pull.

    Purifer gives you:

    - 6% armor that's up all the time because Salvation procs it. It doesnt scale with the Leadership bonus, but still equates to about the same bonus armor as Armor of Trechery in okay gear, apparently, if slightly more!
    - 5% wisdom, which is a little chunk of threat and avoidance. Not as high as sentinel/cabalist, but certainly higher threat than 5% spell crit and some avoidance too.
    - a small personal Shield that doesnt stack with Glacial Shield but can still be used alternately, so you get a shield of mitigation every 15 seconds instead of 30.
    - a 2 sec cast time heal. Not great but you can help heal a bit without needing convictions when not tanking, or between boss phases or something. Just a minor thing, but still kinda handy to be able to spam heal yourself/someone for a while, especially if offtanking or when you can't be meleeing something.

    So although it loses 50 endurance, it seems Purifier gives as much armor, more threat (when in armor of trechery), and more avoidance than Inquisitor, plus a couple of healy/shieldy skills that Inquisitor doesnt have.

    Have I missed something? Why do people prefer Inquisitor over Purifier for that third tree? Is it -purely- due to the Endurance buff on Armor of Trechery, because without that it feels that Purifier is just more useful in every way.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    - 6% armor is based off your pre-MoL armor
    - a 2 second cast heal (that's reduced by MoL) wouldn't be advised. More than likely you'll be dead anyways if you're using it to heal yourself.
    - 5% wis isn't all that much. Lets say you have 400 wis, that's only 20 wis. I know that 1 point of wis only gives .6ish block rating (forgot the dodge/parry it gives, but it's less than that). So you're talking only 12 block rating. (Radak has the actual numbers in his Justi guide).
    - The extra shield is nice, but not worth the loses from Inq.

    -AoT-: 50 endurance that stacks with all other end buffs is a great survivability buff. Since our magic resist sucks, the more health we have, the more of a chance to survive the big hits. Also, the armor only applies to your pre-MoL armor rating.
    - 5% SC will help with generating extra conviction with your Justi instants as well as with SH from Inq.

    Overall, it may seem that puri looks good, inq provides a bit more toward survivability than puri does. I probably missed something, but I'm sure that the cleric tank experts will see this and add to it and correct whatever I missed. Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Byamee; 08-12-2011 at 02:04 PM.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    I have used Inq as my third soul tanking, moved lately to a Cab build for the resistances. The Inq also gives you SH which is another nifty way of building a conviction and st threat during a pull so you can keep Sov and BoR ready for anything getting away.

    If you are really gung-ho, you can range tank for a short while with BoJ. You will run oom if you try to stay that way, but it lets you continue to build threat and convictions if you are forced to be at range for any reason.
    Trolling:
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  4. #4
    Plane Touched
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    If you just go 44 in Justicar and 7 in Shaman you have 15 points for Puri which gets you access to a cleanse as well. Not to mention the little shields and healing blessing. I like Puri much better overall. Better mitigation and the extra shield is nice. With the puri shield the glacier shield and the Justicar shield you can make a macro that activates whichever one is up. I have 11399 HPs in puri build with just all T2 gear.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    Well that all makes sense, especially I guess the sheer weight of the survivability that 50 endurance gives to a class that suffers from magic-damage burst.

    I'd be interested in numbers from 50 clerics as to how much armor Armor of Trechery gives compared to the Purifier armor buff - Radak's guide seems to imply that even though the 6% armor doesnt get multiplied up by the justicar talents, it still provides a tiny bit MORE armor in top end gear than Armor of Trechery.

    I'm also very interested in what skills the 5% "damaging spell crit" talent in Inq actually affects. If it's just Bolt/Sovereignty then its basically 5 wasted talent points. If it affects -all- of the justicar stuff like the strikes and even justice, then i can see it being a very useful threat/damage talent indeed. If it's the first case though, the 5% wisdom from Purifier -has- to be a better spending of points.

    Also note that although its more convenient at instant cast with Sanction Heretic in Inq as a bonus ranged threat builder, Purifiers -can- cast their Spirit Rupture as a ranged Conviction builder too if not being meleed.

    I'll definitely bow to the importance of 50 endurance, but until i know what the difference in Armor value is between the two specs, and exactly what the 5% spell crit in inq affects, I'm not sure I can be sold that Inq is the natural choice given how a well timed Shield can nullify a lot of the burst damage that 50 endurance would help protect against.

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Radak's Avatar
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    Well lets take a look at my raid buffed stats
    http://i.imgur.com/Bn9ug.jpg
    I am a 51just/9sham/6inq.
    Now I have 436wisdom full buffed so even if the 5% talent affected buffs (which it doesn't) it would give me a additional 0.05*436=21.8wisdom
    This 21.8wisdom converts to 16.35SP
    Now what does 16.35SP give me
    16.35*0.9=14.7 parry rating
    16.35*0.6=9.81 dodge rating
    16.35*0.3= 4.91 block rating
    If we round those numbers we get 15parry, 10 dodge and 5 block. Now that's not something to write how about.

    But lets take a look at what the 6% armor would give me.
    I have 14279armor fully buffed. So lets start subtracting.
    14279-504 (archon armor aura) = 13775 armor
    13775-215 (armor of treachery) =13560 armor (no armor of treachery is not affected by MoL so you only get 215 in total)

    Now we have to remove MoL and armor of virtue
    13560 / (1 + 1.51 + 0.15) = 5097.7 base armor + armor plating

    You don't remove the armor plating as it's affected by both MoL and flame ward.

    So we get 6% extra on that 5097.7 which is 5097.7*0.06=305.8 armor.

    Now the comparison looks like this
    Purifier
    1. 15 parry (0.24%)
    2. 10 dodge (0.23%)
    3. 5 block (0.24%)
    4. 90.8 armor
    5. 831 shield (not much when bosses like matron hit for more then 10k from time to time)

    Inquisitor
    1. 50 endurance (450 health)
    2. Extra ranged attack which higher damage then SoJ and builds conviction
    3. 5% crit on Sovereignty, Sanction Heretic, Bolt of Radiance and Righteous Imperative
    4. Option to switch 215 armor and 450 health for 42SP and SC (37.8parry, 25.2dodge and 12.6block)
    5. 1 free talent point*
    * to get 2 point in flame ward it requires 7 points in purifier to get Armor of Treachery you only need 6 points this leaved you with 1 talent point to pick any of the following.
    • 4% increased crit healing and damage bonus
    • 1% more melee crit
    • 1% more physical damage (lol)
    • 2% mana cost reduction on Sovereignty, Sanction Heretic, Bolt of Radiance and Righteous Imperative

    Conclusion
    I think it is safe to say that inquisitor is simple the better choice in 99% of the situations. (the last 1% is you need that extra armor for some reason)
    Last edited by Radak; 08-12-2011 at 05:54 PM.
    Cleric tanking: Justicar guide | Justicar spreadsheet and item list
    Defence is as much a part of war as offense, the shield as important a tool as the sword.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radak View Post
    I think it is safe to say that inquisitor is simple the better choice in 99% of the situations.
    Quoted for truth. Inquisitor is the best cleric spec ever

    *laughs maniacally as the quote is taken out of context*

  8. #8
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sokanon View Post
    Quoted for truth. Inquisitor is the best cleric spec ever

    *laughs maniacally as the quote is taken out of context*
    Inquisitor? Wasn't that the soul with the strongest death-type AoE-spell clerics can have? =O
    Oh no, that's cabalist now, nvm.



    BOOYA!

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