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Thread: Shaman crystal suggestions.

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    Plane Touched Tomaj's Avatar
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    Default Shaman crystal suggestions.

    Well, there's a thread for justicar ones, but I don't see too much overall discussion on shaman here. I think it's agreed that the current iteration of the shaman crystal, for lack of a better term, sucks.

    So, here's some passing suggestions on what can be done to improve the shaman crystal:

    - Jolt has a 5-10% chance of resetting the cooldown on Massive Blow.
    - Reduces the cooldown of Rage of the North by 15 seconds.
    - Massive Blow has a x% chance to strike twice - ideally a higher proc chance than the CB proc, since MB is already on a cooldown.
    - Lightning Hammer's duration is increased by 3 seconds (this means more CB spam, and more LM procs for more MBs - also puts a little more thought into the shaman rotation).
    - When one of your Vengeance spells triggers, there is a 5% chance of resetting the cooldown on Jolt. (This is looking forward to VotPN being a 44pt root in 1.4.)
    - Increases the damage of VotWS/VotPN by x%.
    - While a Vengeance is active, increases Physical and Air damage by 5%. (I don't know under what circumstances anyone would use Primal Earth in PvE, but hey, why not?)
    Last edited by Tomaj; 08-01-2011 at 03:47 AM.

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomaj View Post
    - Jolt has a 5-10% chance of resetting the cooldown on Massive Blow.
    We don't need more weak gimmicks eating up bonuses,
    - Reduces the cooldown of Rage of the North by 15 seconds.
    This ability is mediocre at best given raid geared crit.
    - Massive Blow has a x% chance to strike twice - ideally a higher proc chance than the CB proc, since MB is already on a cooldown.
    Low proc gimmicks equate to bad deeps.
    - Lightning Hammer's duration is increased by 3 seconds (this means more CB spam, and more LM procs for more MBs - also puts a little more thought into the shaman rotation).
    This is not macro friendly and would likely be wasted.
    - When one of your Vengeance spells triggers, there is a 5% chance of resetting the cooldown on Jolt. (This is looking forward to VotPN being a 44pt root in 1.4.)
    Jolt is on a 6 second CD, this means you typically will have 3 chances at best to reset Jolt, add into the mix that some of your rotation will not be melee. Too low a chance for too small of a window to benefit.
    - Increases the damage of VotWS/VotPN by x%.
    They hit for little, they can't crit. Vengeances are not vital to DPS and will increasingly be less valuable.
    - While a Vengeance is active, increases Physical and Air damage by 5%. (I don't know under what circumstances anyone would use Primal Earth in PvE, but hey, why not?)
    Would be decent, but given the other multipliers so this is providing significantly less damage than 5%, but is at least more of a useful bonus
    Honestly, I do not want to see gimmicks that are on 5-15% chance procs. I don't need RNG, I don't want RNG, I want abilities that will provide solid benefits all the time and have decent synergy with other callings.
    Last edited by Eorith; 08-03-2011 at 02:30 AM. Reason: Abusive language directed at Trion employees

  3. #3
    Plane Touched Doctorjon's Avatar
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    Actually with the new 51pt shaman ability VotWS hits pretty hard. I'd like to see a 2pc: 20% damage increase on massive blow and a 4pc: 50% chance for ltng hammer to reset the massive blow cooldown.
    Last edited by Doctorjon; 08-01-2011 at 05:30 AM.
    I sometimes get things right.

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    Plane Touched Tomaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjon View Post
    Actually with the new 51pt shaman ability VotWS hits pretty hard. I'd like to see a 2pc: 20% damage increase on massive blow and a 4pc: 50% chance for ltng hammer to reset the massive blow cooldown.
    Yeah, but I don't think going for 51-pt is good, tbh. And does the increase on WS outweigh the benefits from Inq/Sent crit damage increase? VotPN will scale from Stormborn besides.

    As for the above regarding RNG, I don't necessarily want RNG, either, but sitll. A lot of crystals seem very intent on using RNG anyway. And besides, percentages can always be changed. ;P
    Last edited by Tomaj; 08-01-2011 at 01:11 PM.

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    Plane Touched Doctorjon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomaj View Post
    Yeah, but I don't think going for 51-pt is good, tbh.
    I don't think you currently have any data to base that on.
    I sometimes get things right.

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    Plane Touched Tomaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjon View Post
    I don't think you currently have any data to base that on.
    None of the other crystals are based on 51-point roots, last I knew. That's what I was referring to, I apologize if I was unclear (hence the rest of my post).

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    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    on PTS VotWS was hitting for 200 damage on every hit with 51pt shaman

    thats not signifigant at all...

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    Rift Disciple Internetosaura's Avatar
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    whats RNG?
    Clerics: Jack of all trades, Ace of none.

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internetosaura View Post
    whats RNG?
    Random Number Generator

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    Plane Walker Elco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phage View Post
    Honestly, I do not want to see gimmicks that are on 5-15% chance procs. I don't need RNG, I don't want RNG, I want abilities that will provide solid benefits all the time and have decent synergy with other callings.
    This. Those Ideas are all as terrible as the original ones trion came up with.

    Im going to be upset if we end up with crappy RNG gimmicks on top of our overly RNG reliant class.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Tomaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elco View Post
    This. Those Ideas are all as terrible as the original ones trion came up with.

    Im going to be upset if we end up with crappy RNG gimmicks on top of our overly RNG reliant class.
    See above. I'd rather not have RNG gimmicks, but I wouldn't be surprised by it either. Still, I wouldn't be upset to actually have to think about my rotation instead of hitting one extra button every 15 seconds, and another button every 90.

  12. #12
    Champion xDuffvy's Avatar
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    I'd like a water boost, like our air skill.

    And then maybe one directed towards MB.

    ** sorry dont have a tree infront of me

    (2) 20% increase in water damage
    (4) X% increase to the MB passive per point

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quick numbers with tier 1 raid gear (1284SP 51sha/10sent/5war) gave me:
    57(153) VotWS (FW) in a pure spec
    45 CH, 54 VotWS in hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    on PTS VotWS was hitting for 200 damage on every hit with 51pt shaman

    thats not signifigant at all...
    Significantly less significant than you think when you consider that:

    Forces you to go 51 points into Shaman
    You lose Crag Hammer
    Vengeance line never crits

    Going pure Shaman means you lose 10-20% crit damage and use a weaker rotation. Considering our melee build's propensity to crit, this can be upwards of 5~10% damage increase (multiplicative). Not to mention all the better rotation abilities that don't include Crushing Blow.

    For me, CH+VotWS = 2/3 FW VotWS, so going pure Shaman only gave me about 50 more damage per hit, which translates into ~37 DPS. While 37 is nice, it is not enough to lure me into 51 Shaman.

    Both VotWS and CH both lack the ability to crit, which means you're basically filling tons of your GCDs with weak Crushing Blows that have upwards of 40% of their damage unable to crit. Considering you can easily push 50% crit, that's ~75 DPS you're losing out than compared to another build that used better scaling abilities.

    Hitting for an additional 200 damage per attack is nice, but their inability to crit and the fact that you're really not gaining much for going all the way into 51 Shaman aren't really selling the class.

    Again, Trion, until you actually gain the ability to balance gimmicks, please just give flat bonuses or additional effects. If Massive Blow had a 100% chance to reduce the GCD to 1 second for 3 seconds, that basically gives a free Crushing Blow per proc, so given a couple procs this might be 5~10%. It isn't amazing, but it is your gimmick not being useless.

    A crystal that gave +10% physical, water, and air elemental damage with Massive Blow having a 100% proc to reduce the GCD by 0.5 seconds for 3 seconds would be a perfectly reasonable crystal. The 2p would have versatility with some other builds, but not all and the 4p would scale much better with a pure Shaman build than a hybrid.

    The Druid crystal could be equally simple. The Ranger crystal gives its pet 60% increased damage, whereas ours is 25% crit damage, aka realistically a ~10% increase for the pet or less. If Trion really, really wanted to give us better pet crit...how about having them just copy our base crit multiplier instead? Or have our pet receive the same bonuses from trinkets, essences, weapons, or self-buffs (Armor of Devotion etc)?

    It is very frustrating when there are so many unique things that Trion could include if they really want to take the gimmick approach, but instead introduce mediocre abilities with way too low proc rates.

    Gaaaaah.

    As always, please fire Zibnik.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched Tomaj's Avatar
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    @Phage

    That assumes you go into druid, which isn't always the case. For example, using a 45 sham/10 sent/11 inq build, there's no Crag Hammer to start.

    On that note, going 51 Shaman with that spec means either losing 20% crit damage and 1% AP, or 20% crit damage and Armor of Devotion (more AP and crit).

    As for the suggestion on 100% on MB, I might actually suggest more like 75% if we want to go that route, since you can very possibly go MB > CB > MB from LM (assuming LH and SotM are on cd, and SH and Vex are both up).

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomaj View Post
    @Phage

    That assumes you go into druid, which isn't always the case. For example, using a 45 sham/10 sent/11 inq build, there's no Crag Hammer to start.

    On that note, going 51 Shaman with that spec means either losing 20% crit damage and 1% AP, or 20% crit damage and Armor of Devotion (more AP and crit).

    As for the suggestion on 100% on MB, I might actually suggest more like 75% if we want to go that route, since you can very possibly go MB > CB > MB from LM (assuming LH and SotM are on cd, and SH and Vex are both up).
    Right now, Shaman is bad.
    In 1.4, Shaman is less bad, but still bad.
    Because Shaman is bad, no one realistically mains the soul.

    Our only realistic DPS soul is Druid, subsequently all DPS builds should be compared against our highest spec, which means that Crag Hammer would be relevant. Because the current winner has both VotWS and CH, Frozen Wrath --a 51 point ability-- should be doing more than 37 DPS, period.

    Also, screw RNG.

    Screw 5%. Screw 75%. Screw anything less than 100%.

    When you give an effect a non-guaranteed proc rate you are doing way, WAY more than the lacking percent. An effect that triggers 75% of the time misses 25% of the time. This means sometimes the effect will allow me to tweak my rotation, sometimes it won't, which often causes ambiguous decisions or significantly more complicated rotations. DoTs get clipped or have downtimes, abilities don't always end up on CD appropriately, etc. It seems like it is insignificant, but it butchers your ability to depend on builds.

    Add in the fact that #1, the effects are typically garbage, and #2 they are typically obscenely low. While the gimmicks on the Shaman crystal look neat, they are adding like 20 DPS or something pathetically low. This is problematic when other classes can get 200+ DPS increases or improved burst, or basically anything else that actually does something.

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