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Thread: Cleric Vs Mage loot

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Question Cleric Vs Mage loot

    Hey guys and girls, I'm looking for some intelligent opinions.

    For rings, necks, essences, staffs etc that can be used by both mage and clerics our guild has the general loot rule that if it has more int it's a mage item, more wis it's a cleric item. The thinking behind this is that;
    A) Clerics get more Spellpower from wisdom than intelligence
    B) Cleric dps don't generally have problems with mana (and therefore having more mana won't = more dps)
    C) "mages get screwed on loot" (there's a lot more chain items drop in raids than cloth items, therefore clerics should let mages have the Int loot)

    but we have some clerics in the guild, mainly those that dps more than heal, that believe they should be allowed to roll on Int heavy items because they need crit and int still gives a little spellpower.

    What are you opinions on this? No flaming or trolling please :P

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    cloth=mages
    chain=clerics

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    read my post :P

    "For rings, necks, essences, staffs etc that can be used by both mage and clerics "

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elycia View Post
    Hey guys and girls, I'm looking for some intelligent opinions.

    For rings, necks, essences, staffs etc that can be used by both mage and clerics our guild has the general loot rule that if it has more int it's a mage item, more wis it's a cleric item. The thinking behind this is that;
    A) Clerics get more Spellpower from wisdom than intelligence
    B) Cleric dps don't generally have problems with mana (and therefore having more mana won't = more dps)
    C) "mages get screwed on loot" (there's a lot more chain items drop in raids than cloth items, therefore clerics should let mages have the Int loot)

    but we have some clerics in the guild, mainly those that dps more than heal, that believe they should be allowed to roll on Int heavy items because they need crit and int still gives a little spellpower.

    What are you opinions on this? No flaming or trolling please :P
    For fairness sake don't let them roll on cloth gear, I'd say. There is chain gear out there with +spellcrit out there that should suit most dps clerics just fine, and they can use marks and/or raid rift drops for cloth for the slots where good chain doesn't exist.

    However (and this is a big caveat) staves, wands and jewelry should be open season, especially jewelry. Why? Wisdom heavy jewelry out of the current raid instances doesn't come with focus. DPS or support clerics or even Senticars need focus, and that's the only way they'll get it.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    It's a problem Trion created and they need to fix it. Maybe if WIS actually benefited DPS clerics more than INT, clerics wouldn't want cloth items so much. That and their chain-look artist blows. Rogues and DPS warriors have the same issue with leather items.

    Bottom line - many cloth items are better than chain items for DPS clerics and everyone is trying to max/min for raid progression. IMHO, if it's a marginal difference, I'd rather have cloth items go to mages, but some alternatives aren't very marginal ... sorry mages.

  6. #6
    Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elycia View Post
    Hey guys and girls, I'm looking for some intelligent opinions.

    For rings, necks, essences, staffs etc that can be used by both mage and clerics our guild has the general loot rule that if it has more int it's a mage item, more wis it's a cleric item. The thinking behind this is that;
    A) Clerics get more Spellpower from wisdom than intelligence
    B) Cleric dps don't generally have problems with mana (and therefore having more mana won't = more dps)
    C) "mages get screwed on loot" (there's a lot more chain items drop in raids than cloth items, therefore clerics should let mages have the Int loot)

    but we have some clerics in the guild, mainly those that dps more than heal, that believe they should be allowed to roll on Int heavy items because they need crit and int still gives a little spellpower.

    What are you opinions on this? No flaming or trolling please :P
    As a melee cleric myself 99% of the time I would say give a cleric who ONLY DPS's a fair chance against the mages for accessories/staves for DPS...just use some good judgement...and of course mages for cloth over clerics 100% unless its rotting..there are chain pieces just as good for every slot with the exception of the t3 focus gloves..which isnt an issue. :P

    I personally didnt bid on any int heavy accessory items over mages though since like you mentioned, they kinda have a smaller selection of gear to choose from.

    edit: I would like to add...that I dont think int is "that" much better than wis for DPS...I think people are too hooked on crit in a raid when SP scales better in a raid environment
    Last edited by Sarrom; 07-23-2011 at 07:59 AM.
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  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Majsharan's Avatar
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    Crystalized Flames

    http://rift.zam.com/en/item/DFF483D3...talized-Flames

    to me is a perfect example of a totem that is extremely justifiably used by both mages and clerics. Sure its more cleric oriented with the higher wisdom, but the higher end really helps mages by giving them a larger health pool to sarifice to their mana.

    Its what I use for my Dps role (cleric).

  8. #8
    General of Telara Sunspots's Avatar
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    There is no perfect answer because every guild is in a different place from a loot perspective. When your guild is first starting out raiding, you are so much better off restricting intelligence or focus high items to your mages, because the lack of mage drops in GS and the high frequency of Cleric drops will quickly leave your DPS in the dust if you don't use some restrictions. The good news is, most Wisdom heavy items *do* still have intelligence on them, so its not as if your Clerics are suffering for the lack of intelligence.

    As time goes by and you put many bosses on farm content, it then becomes important to give your clerics a chance to catch up on Focus, because of the varying nature of healing requirements means many of the clerics you need healing for Herald, for instance, you won't need for Plutonus, for instance, and so they need focus to contribute. So again, its really just up to a competent guild leader deciding what is best for your guild.

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  9. #9
    Rift Disciple denalidave's Avatar
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    I (as a healer ) would say that the intellect gear can be desired by helers too sometimes dependent on their build. My ward/sent build procs my greater and my trinket where as my sent/pur didn't as much. Therefore the int (crit) would be more desired. O and more spell crit comes on int gear than wis gear
    Last edited by denalidave; 07-24-2011 at 11:26 AM.
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  10. #10
    Plane Touched Doctorjon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarrom View Post
    ...I would like to add...that I dont think int is "that" much better than wis for DPS...I think people are too hooked on crit in a raid when SP scales better in a raid environment
    This is incorrect. For dps clerics, spell crit scales better. Our crits do 260% of a normal hit, in addition to procing Jolt and Lust for Blood.

    Only with very high crit (60%+ with raid buffed) should you start looking to build more spellpower than crit. INT is better than wis for dps clerics.
    Last edited by Doctorjon; 07-24-2011 at 11:43 AM.
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  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Majsharan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjon View Post
    This is incorrect. For dps clerics, spell crit scales better. Our crits do 260% of a normal hit, in addition to procing Jolt and Lust for Blood.

    Only with very high crit (60%+ with raid buffed) should you start looking to build more spellpower than crit. INT is better than wis for dps clerics that aren't cab.
    fixed^

    but back on topic I did alot of looking through the t1/t2 drops and really only saw two off hands that were questionable about wether they were meant for cleric or mage. So to me it seems like your guild has it basically right. If your guild wants you to dps however, tell them that the mage gear they aren't allowing you to role on is preventing you from becoming as good at dps as you can be.

    But i think trion needs to stop making it so that classes can wear multiple types of armor and make it:

    Warrior : plate
    Cleric : chain
    Rogue: leather
    Mage: cloth

    and just make their be alot more vairety in each type of armor for all the different souls.

    an example

    for cleric
    epic heal chain armor 590 Wisdom +30 Spellpower + 400 Spell crit + 30
    epic tank chain armor 590 Wisdom +30 Endurance + 20 Spellpower + 200 Toughness +30
    epic Melee dps armor 590 Wisdom+ 20 Int +30 Endurance +10 Focus + 30
    Epic Ranged dps (cab) 590 Wisdom+40 Spell power +500 Focus +30
    Epic Ranged Dps 590 Wisdom +30 Int +20 Spell power +300 Spell crit +20 Focus +30

  12. #12
    dbe
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    cloth - mages first
    rings or necks - no preference

    Anyone saying otherwise is trying to tip the balance of gear in their favor, and thinks you're stupid enough to let them.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Doctorjon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majsharan View Post
    fixed^

    No cleric should be playing cabalist right now.
    I sometimes get things right.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    If it is a best in slot item, it isn't the person's fault for rolling on something. Trion made this awful itemization and they made it so that Wisdom is increasingly useless for Clerics as opposed to getting Intelligence/Spell Crit. Until Trion fixes this problem, it should be fair game for Clerics to roll on items that are best in slot.

    That being said, it should be for Best in Slot items, not just random upgrades. The other day, we had a cleric roll on Singed Hood because it had Intelligence, but it was the 9th best helm for Clerics and worse than both the cloth and chain T2 helms. This should not be allowed.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple
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    your nuts if you dont want your heals to crit, serendipity lives on it. let clerics and mages be considered casters as far as rings, accessories, wands, staves, and trinkets go. But for armor i think you should stick to your set type.

    i think the same goes for warriors and rouges, Consider them fighters,they should each be able to roll on the same rings, trinkets, etc.
    But they should also only roll on their designated armor types.

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