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Thread: BishopX melee pvp video

  1. #1
    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    Default BishopX melee pvp video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEj9N1vSOfI

    As requested. I made a quick black garden video of shaman.
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...kxtbsAk.xx.Vxz is the spec i recommend.


    i turned it into a guide of how i would go about melee cleric or ANY MELEE in a pug situation.
    and hope it gives good tips that I have picked up over the past 15 years of pvp.
    enjoy!
    Last edited by BishopX; 06-26-2011 at 02:21 PM.

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    Ascendant sanosuke's Avatar
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    wish it was better quality can hardly see whats going on half the time

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    Soulwalker
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    I guess I'm kinda confused on the spec here...

    It seems the standard 11/45/10 Shaman build would be superior to your version with Templar. With the standard build you gain REAL self healing with Sentinal (even if you never stopped to top yourself off with Healing Grace, Healing Breath alone seems more valuable then 15% crit reduction), not to mention the additional damage from the spell power and crit bonus gains. That right there out weighs those points in Templar easily imo. The only "decent" thing Templar is giving you is Break Free, outside of that nothing that isn't inferior to going Sentinal. Also that one point in Thick Skinned should really be put into Favored of the Valnir.

    I thought you did a good job with your "PvP Tips". A lot of those tips are common knowledge but I found myself going "oh ya, that makes sense" a couple times even though I have a long PvP history like yourself. The quality of the video was really really bad though, and took most of the possible enjoyment out of it.

    *edit* lol first post really?
    Last edited by Vassu; 06-26-2011 at 03:26 PM.

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    Rift Disciple Anraas's Avatar
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    Again, you should of been a Bahmi.

    Ultimate manliness. Bahmi shaman.

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    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanosuke View Post
    wish it was better quality can hardly see whats going on half the time
    I honestly wish I knew how to make the videos higher quality. because i can see everything when I have the initial frap, but after I compress it to a mp4 to go on youtube it loses its quality and turns into THAT.
    and the games internal recorder keeps turning off every time i die so I would HAVE TO record a flawless game.

    anyone with any real audio video knowledge can help out it will lead to better videos.



    as for the spec, having -15 to Be crit and detaunt >>> having sentinel for healing breath. when you dont have the pvp soul you EXPLODE on contact with other players. Notice that warrior at 3:30 in the video. once i saw he had 3 buffs from 3 different trees i knew he had no pvp soul and hit him... died in less than 5 sec. pvp soul also allows you to detaunt.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Sentinel isn't just healing breath though, it is a solid damage boost, and at the end of the day Shamans aren't pumping out rediculous damage unless the stars and cooldowns align anyways so I just don't see the point in running around not maximizing your damage output and just tapping things with your hammer that other people are killing for you (I mean you are already not everyones favorite person in the world because you decided to be a melee cleric in a warfront anyways, so you might as well bring the most damage you can to the table).

    Sure survivability is important but Sentinel provides that as well, wether it is as much survivability as Templar is debatable. Me personally I like to have SOME form of healing to los and top myself off with. Without sentinel you will just slowly melt away to random dots and aoe, unless you have a watchful healer of course. Reguardless which 3rd soul you take if you are focused you will die, at least with Sentinel in a 1v1-2 you have some sustainability. Break Free is nice, but thats about it.

    Sentinel=Healing (survivability) and +Damage

    Templar=Survivability....
    Last edited by Vassu; 06-27-2011 at 10:49 PM.

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    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vassu View Post
    Sentinel isn't just healing breath though, it is a solid damage boost, and at the end of the day Shamans aren't pumping out rediculous damage unless the stars and cooldowns align anyways so I just don't see the point in running around not maximizing your damage output and just tapping things with your hammer that other people are killing for you (I mean you are already not everyones favorite person in the world because you decided to be a melee cleric in a warfront anyways, so you might as well bring the most damage you can to the table).

    Sure survivability is important but Sentinel provides that as well, wether it is as much survivability as Templar is debatable. Me personally I like to have SOME form of healing to los and top myself off with. Without sentinel you will just slowly melt away to random dots and aoe, unless you have a watchful healer of course. Reguardless which 3rd soul you take if you are focused you will die, at least with Sentinel in a 1v1-2 you have some sustainability. Break Free is nice, but thats about it.

    Sentinel=Healing (survivability) and +Damage

    Templar=Survivability....
    ok let me be clear... without detaunt and the -15% chance to BE crit... you will ABSOLUTELY EXPLODE in pvp.
    like rogues and warriors 100% pulling 1k dps all over your face and beating you senseless like a level 49 trash mob. yes a level 50 trash mob has more hp and better mitigation against players.
    this is why you take the pvp soul and not sent. the pros of taking it outweight the cons of not by a large amount. I am not talking about "defense vs offense" this is more like a 30 dps increase in damage compared to a 200% increase in damage taken.
    you die when a melee dps because you get bursted hard and its over... if you have detaunt and anti crit you dont get bursted. average crit rating is about 20 so now they have about a 5% chance to crit you.
    anyone else who has HIGHER crit rating than 30... lets say a rogue who has 40-50.... they are wearing pve gear so you can actually light them up pretty good anyway.

    just my opinion however, but i would never suggest pvp without at LEAST 5 points in the pvp soul. there is no increase to damaeg in the first 10 points of any soul that is worth more than the first 5 of templar.... shame templar is an absolute waste after that

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    Notice that warrior at 3:30 in the video. once i saw he had 3 buffs from 3 different trees i knew he had no pvp soul and hit him... died in less than 5 sec. pvp soul also allows you to detaunt.

    i watched that part a couple time, and it looks like you did MAYBE 1500 total damage to him, he was obviously focuc fired by your team, and it would have made no difference if he had the pvp soul or not.

    I agree with the other posters that Sentinel would be a much better 3rd soul choice. With this build you have almost no survivability as it is, might as well go full dps and hope to kill people faster (and get a few healing spells in the process).

    If you really wanna pvp DPS as a cleric, Go Inquisitor/Justicar/Sentinel, and you will **** face all day long, and very rarely die.
    Belmont - Order of Shadow - 5/5 4/4 4/4

    Living off Mage tears since 2006

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    ok let me be clear... without detaunt and the -15% chance to BE crit... you will ABSOLUTELY EXPLODE in pvp.
    like rogues and warriors 100% pulling 1k dps all over your face and beating you senseless like a level 49 trash mob. yes a level 50 trash mob has more hp and better mitigation against players.
    this is why you take the pvp soul and not sent. the pros of taking it outweight the cons of not by a large amount. I am not talking about "defense vs offense" this is more like a 30 dps increase in damage compared to a 200% increase in damage taken.
    you die when a melee dps because you get bursted hard and its over... if you have detaunt and anti crit you dont get bursted. average crit rating is about 20 so now they have about a 5% chance to crit you.
    anyone else who has HIGHER crit rating than 30... lets say a rogue who has 40-50.... they are wearing pve gear so you can actually light them up pretty good anyway.

    just my opinion however, but i would never suggest pvp without at LEAST 5 points in the pvp soul. there is no increase to damaeg in the first 10 points of any soul that is worth more than the first 5 of templar.... shame templar is an absolute waste after that
    First of all Detaunt as melee is just silly, you can't be nearly as selective as to when this ability is most effective like you can as a ranged, because you are melee, and if you are in there doing your job you are already getting pooped on by multiple people anyways. Maybe it will buy you time to run behind an object to los and get some heals off? Oh wait, you didn't spec for any self healing, nevermind. Maybe a nice healer will help you out, but at the same time that healer would rather have you just die instead because he is also a cleric and is bitter that you decided to be melee in the first place.....lol, jk =)

    Second, you for whatever reason seem to believe that -15% to be crit is valuable in Rift PvP...it simply isn't, at least not compared to self healing. Why? Because crit bonuses in this game are not amazing, and you are very wrong about a lvl 50's approx. crit rating. Many classes, each including multiple souls, can reach pretty rediculous crit percentages even in PvP gear. So not only is -15% crit not reducing most peoples crit rate by 90% as you claim, the crits it does prevent are most likely not even 200% of the damage of a normal attack (not every soul can reach that high of a crit bonus with more then 1-2 abilities, let alone all of them). Most any damage dealer if they are going to use the PvP soul goes the dps route anyways, not defensive (I realize clerics don't really have a dps route for their PvP tree).

    Lastly, you should be talking about defensive vs offense for the 3rd soul because ultimately, like I posted earlier, Sentinel will provide you with both. Templar will simply lower the chance that that assasins bleed ticks will crit as much while they STILL kill you since, again, you have NO self sustainablility.

    Sorry if this comes harsh at all, but if I see a new melee cleric in a WF I would hope he is at least speccing to be as effective as possible...(not saying you are new, just saying in general)

  10. #10
    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    well, spec how YOU wish.
    I am giving you and people who are newer my advice as a guy who has played to 6 and gotten the 50,000 lifetime killing blows and back again.
    50 spellpower in my opinion is not worth getting crit 15% more in the eyes of this Bishop.

    not do i reccomend using pve gear because it gives you "more deepz" than valor laden gear either.

    your dps drops to zero when your dead.
    Last edited by BishopX; 06-29-2011 at 12:58 AM.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Frankly, to me.
    The video failed to show the merit of a melee cleric. Most of the time it shows you "ganking". Unless you meant to show that you grind your way to R6 this way, then yeah, the video makes sense. It just lacks the X factor of a pvp video(1 v 1, 1 v 2, 1 v 3, turning the tide, skillful display of utilising cooldowns.)

  12. #12
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    I liked your video Bishop, thanks for sharing.

    Few things though...

    I don't know if it was the quality of the video not showing all the necessary info, but that opposing team seemed very weak compared to yours in terms of tactics and strength, I mean seriously handicapped...

    Other than that your tactics are spot on, one comment I don't agree on is Chess and checkers... I find that Rift is more akin to the japanese game of 'Go' more than chess or checkers. Learning to utilise ground, and resources is more important in 'Go' where in chess you push through with brute strength in most times.

    Your spec is very good for co-operative play, longer you die the more time a healer has to heal. The other mentioned specs are for those who are more self reliant and find themselves amongst players that have more selfish specs and maybe not so many healers.

    But other than that it was one of the few good videos that has been posted on gameplay :P

    Keep up the good work!

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    well, spec how YOU wish.
    I am giving you and people who are newer my advice as a guy who has played to 6 and gotten the 50,000 lifetime killing blows and back again.
    50 spellpower in my opinion is not worth getting crit 15% more in the eyes of this Bishop.

    not do i reccomend using pve gear because it gives you "more deepz" than valor laden gear either.

    your dps drops to zero when your dead.
    As others have said, and as I said before, I really liked your "tatics" and thought they were spot on and very useful to new and old players.

    But I think you are still missing the point spec wise. Because really you aren't helping anyone in that department. Choosing between Justicar and Sentinel in a melee cleric build is valid because you are sacrificing a small amount of dmg and self heals for more survivability and group heals or vice versa. Using Templar on the other hand accomplishes nothing at all outside of Break Free which is very situationally useful as a melee considering all the cc that is being thrown at you combined with how DRs work in this game. Other Dps in this game use the PvP tree and Break Free, yes, but they also use the Dps side of the PvP tree as well which just isn't available to clerics.

    This isn't really a "you spec how you want to, I will how I want to" debate because you have no valid argument behind your spec. You do not gain more survivability through Templar, you are looking at the crit reduction and Detaunt thinking this helps, but in reality you have no way, absolutely no way of keeping yourself alive. The above poster said that your spec is more for team play when you have healers, which is rediculous because if you had dedicated healers this imaginary survivability boost you are referring to wouldn't even be neccessary. And I say DEDICATED healers because they would literally need to hump your leg the entire WF for you to not need self sustainability, even in a premade if you are playing correctly and actually posing some kind of threat to the opposing team you STILL need to help keep yourself up at times.

    I don't know how to break it down anymore for you, it isn't a matter of opinion this is just simple facts, reguardless of your rank, you have evolved some misconceptions on how to spec a melee cleric properly. Like I said before, Sentinel isn't the only way to spec, Justicar is viable because there is a POINT behind doing that, there is absolutely NO valid reason to go Templar as a melee cleric. -15% isn't going to stop people from making you "explode on impact" as you put it, if they actually feel you are a threat and focus you then you will die, unless you are clever and can los, get a heal or heal yourself.

    Btw at no point did I suggest using PvE gear in PvP, although this can be a good idea in some slots for some souls.
    Last edited by Vassu; 06-29-2011 at 09:24 PM.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vassu View Post
    Using Templar on the other hand accomplishes nothing at all outside of Break Free which is very situationally useful as a melee considering all the cc that is being thrown at you combined with how DRs work in this game.
    I've played all kinds of melee cleric builds since beta, some with templar, and some without.

    In open world PvP, break free is pretty much required to win 1v1 / 1v2 as a melee cleric. If you fight anyone decent without break free, they will either CC you when they are low on health or when you pop Rage of the North, or CC you when you are low.... preventing you from escape / self heal.

    If your PvP experience is mashing your face into the keyboard in Port Scion or Black Garden, you probably haven't really noticed the difference.

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furyos View Post
    I've played all kinds of melee cleric builds since beta, some with templar, and some without.

    In open world PvP, break free is pretty much required to win 1v1 / 1v2 as a melee cleric. If you fight anyone decent without break free, they will either CC you when they are low on health or when you pop Rage of the North, or CC you when you are low.... preventing you from escape / self heal.

    If your PvP experience is mashing your face into the keyboard in Port Scion or Black Garden, you probably haven't really noticed the difference.
    Key word "situationally".

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