+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: Druids are even more broken in PVP

  1. #1
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    668

    Default Druids are even more broken in PVP

    Thanks Trion not only have you not given druids a proper break in PVP by fixing some issues with the Druid, you nerf their debuffing skills instead and now give dominators a whopping increase in damage from debuffs.

    I like the dominator class but I'm pointing out the things you left behind on druids, not only is the whole soul pretty messed up but they somehow fit into clerics highest DPS spec and lots of people that don't even want to play a pet class is forced to play it...

    Firstly: Pet class

    We are foremost and most importantly a petclass, but we have some ridiculous things that exist in our tree.

    1. Pets are useless pre 36 points in, unless you maximise personal DPS such as in the cookie cutter build the pets are worthless.
    - The fairy's heals are nothing in comparison to applying the same amount of points invested in another tree, even the combination of personal DPS and heals does not account for what can be achieved in a different setup.
    - The satyr's DPS is low, I seem to have better results with the fairy, and the pet suffers not only from DPS issues and Crits proccing on Auto attacks but they range problems, problems targetting and attacking bosses and very low health and survivability.

    Dominators now have a 2 min CD set of pets which do more damage than Druid pets, also the investment needed for this skill is very low at 28 points, dominators are not a pet class but receive similar if not more damage in comparison to a 51 point druid. (Also the Dom pets last for 30 seconds, and Druid's enrage lasts for 15 seconds... The dominators pets hit every 2 seconds and can hit a maximum 45 times for about 800-900 damage each (36K Damage max, without Crit), Druids however cast enrage and Combined effort can have the fairy hit for 1.2K every 2 seconds for a maximum of 7 hits (8.4K damage max without Crit), and the satyr Enraged assualt hits for 800 with a max of five times and Satyr Sweep for 800 with a max of two times, with 10 auto attacks inbetween for 200 damage each (7.6K max no Crits).

    36K Dom pet Damage compared to 8.4K Fairy or 7.6K Satyr Damage is a joke, even doubling the damage with 16.8K Fairy and 15.2K damage for satyr is still a joke as Druids are a pet specific class and Doms will only need 28 points and can spec necro for even more pets or chloro for even more healing.

    Not only that since its three pets that are split it is more difficult to stop unless you have some sort of purge, Druid pets are classed as PVE creatures and can be chain CC'd and be made even more worthless than they are.

    Secondly Debuffer

    Druids have a line of useless debuffing skills, useless because they are useless - situational in PVE and difficult to apply in PVP, and also useless.

    Spirit Line

    Trickster Spirit is so weak it is hardly every used, if someone actually finds this powerful please chime in on how and where you find this useful.

    Slothful spirit

    Seemed a good contender in PVP for long drawn out battles, but now mana can be reduced in almost an instant this debuff needs an upgrade. This should be able to negate melee DPS and Debuffers alike to bring their DPS or mana to lower levels giving druids more strength as the fight progresses as is the druid style in Rift.

    Spiteful spirit

    Powerful yet pitiful on a druid, the lack of a charge ability or ranged application makes this useless in most situations and in most cases will drop off when the druid is running for its life giving the enemy crucial moments to gain full health, while the pitiful druid heals or fairy heals gradually heals the druid making every out lasting battle a losing one.

    Snare/Root Lines

    Snare and Root are of little use in todays rift and those with secondary effects fare much better in battle and can be used offensively or defensively like storm shackle or Burning bonds.

    Offensive abilities
    Druid damage is pitiful at best, however it should either sway to good DPS or good survival and debuffing skills. I prefer having utility over damage and the druid class was (what it looks like) meant to be for that end.

    Weight of the world should be changed to give innate crit enhancement, and enhance the pet. Its ridiculous that the druids personal damage is so low and yet can be purged to go even lower.

    Combined effort is a nightmare to get on in PVE and PVP, in PVE numerous bosses do knock back and have AOE channelled skills that would kill, druids do not have a charge ability so uptime of this skill is difficult to manage and near impossible to pull off in PVP.

    Being a class with very little way of manoeuvring in mid battle even compared to warriors (that are complaining that theirs is not good enough), warriors have AOE fear, charge and supreme defensive abilities they can spec into to handle such circumstances albeit not as well as they want.

    Wild Strike

    This ability still suffers from target issues and will not cast if the enemy walks past you or for whatever reason the enemy is not in range. The druid loses a substantial amount of DPS from this flaw and having to rely on the tab function to remain on an enemy in the correct place makes this skill even more unreliable.

    Friend of the Weald

    I used to think this ability did bring us some good utility, but looking at where Rift is going and comparing to investments into other callings and souls, investing high into the druid tree does not give much benefit at all.

    Defensive abilities

    Shield of oak is pretty mediocre, it does not have any talents progressing its usefulness or does it provide any support to the druid outside PVE melee attacks.
    If the shield had a damage component similar to the shaman glacial shield, but stay on longer by only defending a partial amount every hit it would be much better.

    Fae Hammer

    Does not give the pet itís mana back, relatively weak when the class is nearly soley reliant on the pet at 51 points.

    Hidden path

    This is the most useless ability in all of the souls, not only can you use a dispel if that is available to you, the pet can be chain CCíd anyway and makes this spell totally worthless.

    Even the mage elementalist has a defensive that effects the pet and the master.

    Strength of the Fae

    One of the strangest abilities in the druid tree, not only does it not effect the thing you spent the entirety of your points in, it only lasts a short while and does not give you enough time to produce any interesting results in PVP.

    It is mostly used as a Ďsave myself for 5 secondsí skill maybe to try heal with the small repertoire of skills the druid has or run or try to do some very small increase in damage.
    Defensively it is a good skill, for any other use its pretty worthless and does not tie into the soul well.

    Forest blessing

    Either make it increase healing again and grant a fairy AOE heal, or merge it with Ďsummon satyrí this skill is not worth it as it is.

    Suggestions

    Shield of oak needs a damage component, and should tie into the soul better.
    Spirit lines should be usable at range, either take off the damage given to it and increase the debuffs to at least something worthwhile to cast.

    The spirit lines should be able to negate some of the Dominators attacks, the druid is not a healer and not a burst DPS, the mana bar should not be itís downfall.

    Slothful spirit should be changed to reduce the targets mana/energy when causing a skill and return mana to the user.

    Trickster spirit should give a meaningful debuff, maybe allowing pet attacks to stack a debuff onto the target.

    Druids should not fail as a pet class, their pets and utility should be second to none, like how the dominators decrease a personís/parties utility, a druid should have ways to increase theirs and others utility.

    The fairy should reflect the amount healing of all the points spent into it as well as the satyrs damage, especially when combining the poor damage of the druid as well.

    Also the pets need to be tied into the soul more like the other pet classes have theirs.
    And finally the final talent should be a usable skill that enforces the pet usage even more and be a skill like the chloromancers that dramatically changes its gameplay yet enhances its pet utility, and not some random skill that enhances survival just incase the druid gets hit.

    Trion please can you take this into account, the full druid needs a lot of work. Tweaking it here and there will just push pet lovers away faster.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    250

    Default

    Sure is an abundance of uniformed whining in this thread


    50 Cleric <Fires of Heaven>
    Recruitment - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf6DGgZnjWw
    0 valor PvP - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv5JtuQuqXA
    Rift PvE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulPTfNf_k40
    Site for everything rift! www.riftjunkies.com

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara Morguloth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Phoenix AZ
    Posts
    1,114

    Default

    I agree with you, Druid just seems lacking in terms of PvP atm. I'd change Druid to a ranged soul so we can actually apply our debuffs. Problem for a 51 pnt Druid is a lot of our good stuff is wasted in PvP since we have no way to catch ppl, no charge (Shamans should be dropped to the second tier of their tree perhaps). I have a Druid/Jus/Sen 51/11/4 build that although I'm fairly tough with, outside of duels most of my melee tools don't get used enough in WFs chasing after ppl. At least give our Satyr a charge/root ability to keep our target in place while we catch up, that would be awesome. As is Druid is useless for me.

  4. #4
    General of Telara Sunspots's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    950

    Default

    Not every single soul combination in every class has to be *the* premier option for pvp. If you want to go with a build that you believe isn't exactly the way you want it in the situation you want it in, then try making up for the difference with either skill or gear. N/m that druid is amazing for pve already.

    Sunspots the Retired
    Once R8 Guardian Cleric of Seastone
    Proud Alumni of [breaking bads]

    Observe my Past Glory in Video Format here!!

  5. #5
    Plane Touched toblaki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    250

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunspots View Post
    Not every single soul combination in every class has to be *the* premier option for pvp. If you want to go with a build that you believe isn't exactly the way you want it in the situation you want it in, then try making up for the difference with either skill or gear. N/m that druid is amazing for pve already.
    or if you really are stuck on wanting to play druid, then just move to a game where they are decent.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    7,409

    Default

    Completely agree.

    Druid has no definition in pvp. Its skill set suggests pvp, it's execution doesn't
    Get rid of the damage, increase the utility and defense and you have some semblance of a pvp character, something it was thought to be previously.

    Either that or remove the useless final skills and most of it's debuffs and put it on Inq o cabbys who can utilize it better (especially the aoe root which should be ranged and healing debuff) and make it a pve hero class like people want it to be.


    But it has too many useful pvp skills that could be better utilized on justi inqui or cabby, but are wasted on a crap defense mid damage melee class that forgoes all def to attain useless utility it can't use on anyone with half a brain.


    Even fought a 44 pt Druid and all I simply had to do was push him back and run. Boom, counter.


    Make it a ranged class, make it's pets cast the debuffs or give the debuffs to inqs or cabs. But ts current state is unacceptable.
    Last edited by Eughe; 06-26-2011 at 02:08 PM.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple joeoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    croydon pa
    Posts
    125

    Default

    You must play a different game than me that fairy dont hit anywhere near what the satyr pet can.I would say fairy dps is like a 1/4 of what the other is.
    "Martillos" 50 Guardian warrior of deepstrike Rank 3 (retired)

    "Brujita" 50 Defiant cleric of briarcliff Rank 4

    "Fist Of The Empire"

  8. #8
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssly View Post
    Sure is an abundance of uniformed whining in this thread
    And people have the right to voice their opinions about something, its not a totally unfounded. People have been asking for a change a while now, so whats your problem?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sunspots View Post
    Not every single soul combination in every class has to be *the* premier option for pvp. If you want to go with a build that you believe isn't exactly the way you want it in the situation you want it in, then try making up for the difference with either skill or gear. N/m that druid is amazing for pve already.
    I did not write anywhere above that I wanted druid to be a premier option, nor did I want to top the charts.

    I only did a few things:

    Compare a pet class to a non pet class, major unexpected difference
    Compare tools from Debuffers to the current druid debuffs and they're usefullness
    Compare the tools of other melee specced characters with the druids

    And I gave some suggestions.

    The point is why make a PVE soul into a PVP one? Why bother if its never going to see the light of a Warfront?

    I did not design the druid class, thats why I'm questioning this... And also your mentioning of druids being 'Amazing at PVE' what are they amazing at?

    Soloing? Inquisitors can do it faster
    Self healing and fast damage? Shamans and justi combos can do that
    Raid DPS? This only works due to the shaman talents and barely reflects the skills gained through the druid tree, and the reason why its a one macro spec is because the rest of the skills are too crap to even use...
    Raid support? Sorry doesnt have enough output of healing or any useful debuffs so it fails there.

    The only reason it is ahead is because of the pet damage on top of the shaman type DPS, there is nothing else to it.

    I don't want premiere I want a focus and a reason to use the druid, at the moment I play a mere 5% of the game using druid.

    I payed to play the druid class, it is what drew me to this game.


    Quote Originally Posted by toblaki View Post
    or if you really are stuck on wanting to play druid, then just move to a game where they are decent.
    Yes I agree, but first and foremost I am the type of person to add my opinions before rage quitting over X and Y.

    Druid is always.... ALWAYS the slowest progressing class in all games, I have played druid in almost every MMO that druid has existed in.

    I have more faith that developments might bring something interesting, such as the changes to chloro and dominator. What I don't want is the druid to be overlooked because no one cares about it.

    If after a time, that no developments or changes happen I will inevitably give up the ghost and leave the game, like every other person that wanted to play class/souls but never witnessed it resemble anything useful.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Anraas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Inbefore Ssly and Sez make a really bad snarky post.

    ohwait

  10. #10
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Belpheghor View Post
    I agree with you, Druid just seems lacking in terms of PvP atm. I'd change Druid to a ranged soul so we can actually apply our debuffs. Problem for a 51 pnt Druid is a lot of our good stuff is wasted in PvP since we have no way to catch ppl, no charge (Shamans should be dropped to the second tier of their tree perhaps). I have a Druid/Jus/Sen 51/11/4 build that although I'm fairly tough with, outside of duels most of my melee tools don't get used enough in WFs chasing after ppl. At least give our Satyr a charge/root ability to keep our target in place while we catch up, that would be awesome. As is Druid is useless for me.
    Yeah killing people with druid is pretty useless, taking people down when defending something was possible in 1.2, in 1.3 its pretty impossible since theres issues with mana, range and amount(lack) of damage or healing a druid can output.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Completely agree.

    Druid has no definition in pvp. Its skill set suggests pvp, it's execution doesn't
    Get rid of the damage, increase the utility and defense and you have some semblance of a pvp character, something it was thought to be previously.

    Either that or remove the useless final skills and most of it's debuffs and put it on Inq o cabbys who can utilize it better (especially the aoe root which should be ranged and healing debuff) and make it a pve hero class like people want it to be.


    But it has too many useful pvp skills that could be better utilized on justi inqui or cabby, but are wasted on a crap defense mid damage melee class that forgoes all def to attain useless utility it can't use on anyone with half a brain.


    Even fought a 44 pt Druid and all I simply had to do was push him back and run. Boom, counter.


    Make it a ranged class, make it's pets cast the debuffs or give the debuffs to inqs or cabs. But ts current state is unacceptable.
    I would love the druid to be a ranged class, it would play alot smoother, and at most times I play it as range anyway as the mechanics of the game are not that forgiving.

    I would prefer the druid to have more pets, such as a healing pet, shielding pet, Melee DPS pet and range DPS pet.

    The druid could provide the best AOE shields and best + healing (ie.e increase amount healed on targets) in the game, depending on which pet is present.

    And that rage of the Fae was change to Realm of the fae making all the pets available for a short time.

    Providing utilty and having synergy with range attacks or healing would be the best way to play the druid for me.

    Its current state its rather boring and lacks any real use of the pets other than some DPS machine and some basic self healing.

    I just wish we could just have something more interesting and with better self synergy.

    Quote Originally Posted by joeoc View Post
    You must play a different game than me that fairy dont hit anywhere near what the satyr pet can.I would say fairy dps is like a 1/4 of what the other is.
    If you have low spell power than you will see what you are seeing, 800+ spell power and 51 points in druid you will see the power change from satyr to fairy.

    Today my fairy Crit for 2.8K in GSB
    Last edited by whistlingwind; 06-26-2011 at 03:51 PM.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    250

    Default

    it's not worth my time to go into every little tldr comment that you made, but you want to change EVERY skill in the druid tree which is undeniably the highest dps for clerics(if you can hit your target). You compare ONE soul of an EIGHT soul class to entire specs in other classes.

    basically... if you're gonna champion a random soul into what YOU want it to be. Go cry about cabalist, that soul tree blows.
    Last edited by Ssly; 06-26-2011 at 05:16 PM.


    50 Cleric <Fires of Heaven>
    Recruitment - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf6DGgZnjWw
    0 valor PvP - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv5JtuQuqXA
    Rift PvE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulPTfNf_k40
    Site for everything rift! www.riftjunkies.com

  12. #12
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssly View Post
    it's not worth my time to go into every little tldr comment that you made, but you want to change EVERY skill in the druid tree which is undeniably the highest dps for clerics(if you can hit your target). You compare ONE soul of an EIGHT soul class to entire specs in other classes.

    basically... if you're gonna champion a random soul into what YOU want it to be. Go cry about cabalist, that soul tree blows.
    I guess you have'nt noticed me before... I speak for Druid souls only, I care about other souls but do not stand behind them as much as druid.

    Druid is why I play rift, not cabalist. Complaining and asking for changes is not what I call fun and I only do so because I do not like the way the druid soul is heading.

    And actually in PVP cabalist is my goto soul, not only can you herd enemies like sheep you can decimate them pretty fast and be the lead instigator of mass betrayal AOE damage and just pure chaos.

    I agree it does need some seeing to in terms of single target DPS and some different damage ramping up strategies (Storm caller is noted as one of the slow build up classes, yet it is the easiest and fastest to get max damage, in reality cabalist takes the longest to ramp up damage and it does so with gaping wholes in it's damage).

    Anyway, I know of these problems and obviously so do you. Why don't you support some change as well. Or is your time better spent trolling people?

  13. #13
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    250

    Default

    I just think you need to set more realistic expectations for the druid class. Since it's the main soul in the cookie cutter highest dps spec, it's not going to be changed anytime soon.


    50 Cleric <Fires of Heaven>
    Recruitment - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf6DGgZnjWw
    0 valor PvP - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv5JtuQuqXA
    Rift PvE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulPTfNf_k40
    Site for everything rift! www.riftjunkies.com

  14. #14
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssly View Post
    I just think you need to set more realistic expectations for the druid class. Since it's the main soul in the cookie cutter highest dps spec, it's not going to be changed anytime soon.
    In the main post most of the skills I commented on are not used in the cookie cutter spec...

    I mainly concentrated on debuffs, CC's and asking why druids pay 51 points to get less damage than a 28 point dominator.

    Everything above 31 points in druid does not exist in the cookie cutter spec, and most of the ones I mentioned are not used in the cookie cutter spec...

    If im not mistaken, they are not even taken as talents in the cookie cutter spec...

    Just because it kinda works, doesnt mean its working as intended :/

  15. #15
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    7,409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssly View Post
    I just think you need to set more realistic expectations for the druid class. Since it's the main soul in the cookie cutter highest dps spec, it's not going to be changed anytime soon.
    That's ******ed reasoning. Didn't they change warriors 3 times because of a low point skill being used in every damage build?

    Again leave Druid as is for the pve folks but it has very important cc skills not available in any other cleric (hell not available in most souls period) and they all fail because of what the Druid is, a melee class that barely does more melee damage than a shaman 200 dps max from my parses both full 51 (and that's due to the pet, not the Druid itself)

    Take out the cc and debuffs and replace them with generic **** so the rest of you can cookie cutter it up in pve, but it's pvp centric skills need to be distributed between cabalists (including the 51 point skill with a little extra buff in duration) and inquis. Because both classes would be able to execute and utlize them more efficiently.
    Else make those debuffs and skills more practical to use with Druid mechanics. Because they are a complete waste. Hell getting the sleep and mute skills ruins most ranged builds.


    And as for your cabalist comment. Despite it's clunky nature, it out performs Druids 10x in pvp.
    Last edited by Eughe; 06-26-2011 at 06:15 PM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts