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Thread: Cabalist

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Cabalist

    Greetings denizens of the Cleric forum.

    Been looking through at specs and discussions today and as a new, still levelling, cleric I'm noticing a big lack of discussion on Cabalists whereas there's involvement of most of the other souls. Whilst levelling I'm really enjoying cabalist and was hoping to be able to continue to be a decent contribution to a group throughout the game with this as my main soul. Is this a vain hope? Are cabalists rubbish?

    TL;DR - Does the cabalist soul suck?

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara
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    currently, for pve: yes.

    the fact is that cabalist does even less damage than inq in single target in pve while doing some more aoe damage.

    for most occasions, CC and debuffs and purges that cab brings are worthless is pve.

    in boss fights you care for 90% st damage.

    so unless you want to do like 20%more aoe damage on trash while sacrificing 15%damage on bosses there is no point in cabalist.

    for pvp they are good, our strongest aoe nuker, but they are squishy, if you manage to learn one you can shine though for dps.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroudb View Post
    currently, for pve: yes.

    the fact is that cabalist does even less damage than inq in single target in pve while doing some more aoe damage.

    for most occasions, CC and debuffs and purges that cab brings are worthless is pve.

    in boss fights you care for 90% st damage.

    so unless you want to do like 20%more aoe damage on trash while sacrificing 15%damage on bosses there is no point in cabalist.

    for pvp they are good, our strongest aoe nuker, but they are squishy, if you manage to learn one you can shine though for dps.
    honestly the aoe damage isn't 20% better in pve the best aoe damage is to SD+oblivion repeat, the only way that cab can beat that is when there are 5+ targets, which actually isn't all that common in dungeons, and even then, based on my parses, you only beat SD+Oblivion when you have sign up.

    However, sign + stun sigil = 10 secs of no damage to the tank, and despite popular belief there are lots of things that can be purged that actually makes the trash easier... though not that that matters much any more with how easy t1/t2s are. The silence is great for cleric tanks or tanks who can't move the caster mobs.

    Also, with the proper rotation the ST from cabalist is actually on par with inquisitor, but technically that rotation includes BoD, which with 51/15 cab/inq bod has the 60% damage bonus and the dot so you cast bod , st ,bod ,CoS and SH when they are up and skip st.

    Anyways, either way inq or cabalist for ST are just aren't worth using as the standard melee dps trumps them all by 200-300 dps. Now, I will say that if you have 2 mages in your group then you should go inquisitor since the magic damage bonus will have a signifcant impact on their dps. Fastest ap run I've ever done was in 20 mins with 2 mage 2 clerics and warrior. Both mages were sc/el i was running inquisitor.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by tilyn View Post
    honestly the aoe damage isn't 20% better in pve the best aoe damage is to SD+oblivion repeat, the only way that cab can beat that is when there are 5+ targets, which actually isn't all that common in dungeons, and even then, based on my parses, you only beat SD+Oblivion when you have sign up.

    However, sign + stun sigil = 10 secs of no damage to the tank, and despite popular belief there are lots of things that can be purged that actually makes the trash easier... though not that that matters much any more with how easy t1/t2s are. The silence is great for cleric tanks or tanks who can't move the caster mobs.

    Also, with the proper rotation the ST from cabalist is actually on par with inquisitor, but technically that rotation includes BoD, which with 51/15 cab/inq bod has the 60% damage bonus and the dot so you cast bod , st ,bod ,CoS and SH when they are up and skip st.

    Anyways, either way inq or cabalist for ST are just aren't worth using as the standard melee dps trumps them all by 200-300 dps. Now, I will say that if you have 2 mages in your group then you should go inquisitor since the magic damage bonus will have a signifcant impact on their dps. Fastest ap run I've ever done was in 20 mins with 2 mage 2 clerics and warrior. Both mages were sc/el i was running inquisitor.
    as a cabalist you not only haver sd too, but have it at +40%damage. you can easily chain sd->cos->3xtyranny->decay->repeat and it will be much higher than sd->oblvion IF you have 4 targets (which is the average pull in t2). the more mobs the better it gets.

    if you have 3 targets you can use sd->->cos->bf->st will still pull ahead than sd->coo

  5. #5
    Plane Walker Uiin's Avatar
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    My Cabalist does about 650 single target damage and my Inq can go about 750. The biggest reason i play Cabby is for AoE Trash, chain SD>Bound Fate>CoS>Engulfing Shadows and 3 Tyranny is such good AoE, without effort I can reach 2.5 easy. Using the CD Sign of Asias I can go about 3.2k on 7-8 mobs. One thing ot note cabby only really gets with 51 points.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    51 cab is our highest DPS spec for PvP, if you can figure out how to stay alive.

    For whatever reason there are lots of haters that are going to tell you that cabalist in PvP is useless because it's all AoE damage and doesn't have spike damage. This is stupid, because:

    1. Yes it does have spike damage, and
    2. AoE pressure is a useful role and makes spiking much easier for your teammates.

    I think it is because cabalist is a difficult and rather clunky spec to learn. Probably they tried it, were bad at it, and decided that anything they suck at must be useless anyway.
    Last edited by Stay; 06-21-2011 at 08:45 AM.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    I've used cabalist. It does nice damage especially in scion (where it's most useful). But it's utility is minute at best and once everyone knows who you are, you are simply of no use until big bridge battles and boss battles. Smaller battles simply put you at risk. The things that would make them more survival or give them better utility drops their damage below Inq.

    So unless you are into switching back and forth then you might as well stick with inq.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    I've used cabalist. It does nice damage especially in scion (where it's most useful). But it's utility is minute at best and once everyone knows who you are, you are simply of no use until big bridge battles and boss battles. Smaller battles simply put you at risk. The things that would make them more survival or give them better utility drops their damage below Inq.

    So unless you are into switching back and forth then you might as well stick with inq.
    mm I find this to be completely untrue. As do many cabalists, those who know how to play them and survive with them. I consistently score top damage, am in the top 3 in kbs , and am generally completely disruptive to all activities for the other team in ALL WFs.

    If it isn't your play style then you might not be able to get the hang of it, and admittedly I also generally score top damage and kb with my inquisitor. None the less, the cabalist is often written off by a lot of clerics out there and he shouldn't be. He brings utility and burst damage with a unique and challenging play style that once mastered can be a battle tide turning force to be reckoned with.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    I tried playing with cabalist and single target I couldn't break 740 no matter what I did, so that's 170 dps less on the dummy then inquisitor. I gave up on the soul completely, the single target dps sucks. In pvp it can be good though.

    I went 51 cab - 15 inquis, maintain dots and spam BoD. That's the best dps I could come up with.
    Last edited by Mayi; 06-21-2011 at 02:35 PM.

  10. #10
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    I put justicar with Cabalist and work with some good mages, the spike doesnt kill players, but the spike plus mage damage does.

    Also I can do half as much healing as a 'good' chloro in scion.

    One of the best choices to play in scion IMO, herding is a much needed tool when people keep spreading away from AOE.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tilyn View Post
    mm I find this to be completely untrue. As do many cabalists, those who know how to play them and survive with them. I consistently score top damage, am in the top 3 in kbs , and am generally completely disruptive to all activities for the other team in ALL WFs.

    If it isn't your play style then you might not be able to get the hang of it, and admittedly I also generally score top damage and kb with my inquisitor. None the less, the cabalist is often written off by a lot of clerics out there and he shouldn't be. He brings utility and burst damage with a unique and challenging play style that once mastered can be a battle tide turning force to be reckoned with.
    Sorry to say, cabalist is not high learning curve. Its an uncomfortable class when compared to inq due to unnecessarily;ly clunky mechanics. But its usage is very simplistic. Mechanic even. The biggest task is simply choosing opportune times to go to work. Other than that, simple rotation, asias at the proper time. But if it makes you feel better to call it complex, by all means do so.

    It brings nothing to the table that an inq doesnt utility wise, other than mass effects, which is only detrimental to the slow witted and those without senti. Immunity kicks in quickly during mass effect when any mage and warrior is within the area. And the CC is on long CD which require set up, and when/if you miss asias spam you are stuck there being mediocre, slow reactionary, and easily taken down (YOU may be able to survive in the back against bads, but i can assure you, any survival built inq will out last you, and would be able to actually fight back decently)

    The only thing cabs have going for them, is obliterate. And as someone who used cab from rank 1->4 and Inq from then on, the difference between mobility and effectiveness increased tremendously. And the fact that inq builds are not restrictive in order to be effective build wise, one can spec for any situations, instead of for mass amounts of people.

    Tyranny damage goes down per use, per person in the area. I mean, after the firt tyranny, people do tend to move away and los, making anything there after weak (kinda like SD which is commonly used, however, i can bet an inq would be able to get it off even with a stun set up.)

    Obliterate is really its own selling point, which i wont deny its strong damage, but until they fix the CoO los issue, at the end of the day, CoO would have caused, and assisted more deaths, and obliterate.

    The fact that inq does just as much damage, over a class that is suppose to be the designated AoEr really says something, Assuming the average cabalist survives as long as the average inq.

    Cabalist needs a lot of work and i stand by my statement that is only good when you are able to sit still, and aoe a group, without any repercussions, and groups i face, wont allow that to happen. Wasting CD and time. And making a cabalist situational at best, but not worth it.

    If it were 1.1, when i used it, yeah, it was indeed unappreciated and king. Now its more nuisance and annoying.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tilyn View Post
    honestly the aoe damage isn't 20% better in pve the best aoe damage is to SD+oblivion repeat, the only way that cab can beat that is when there are 5+ targets, which actually isn't all that common in dungeons, and even then, based on my parses, you only beat SD+Oblivion when you have sign up.
    Cabalist >>> inq > dru/sham/inq on greenscale for example. Can you put out 1k7 dps as inq on that fight? I don't think so.
    Actually it's more like 4 targets for cab to shine over inq in aoe damage. On 3 targets, it's almost a break even between shadow's touch and circle of oblivion, because of the extra souldrain damage which compensate quite a bit.

    On Gaurath, either you are inquiscar, or cabalist/inq for maximum aoe damage (cab is averaging over 2k dps on that fight... Depending on how fast you burn adds. The slower, the higher your dps will be. On our first progress night, i was over 2k5 half a fight in sometimes). But yes, inq will be less and less far behind as your raid burn through adds faster. Cab brings tremendous utility though you can stun adds during the duration of asias, on the 5th tiranny, and finally silence with the sixth, shutting down the casters for a whole 12seconds, which is enough to kill them usually Maelstrom is usefull also, if adds pop away from each other (it shouldnt, but sometimes your raid sucks). Also silencing the casters on the fly phase will ease the life of your warriors, as it can be tricky to come back in time to kick.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Avarix's Avatar
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    I like playing cabalist, but for the life of me couldn't figure out how to manage my mana. I run out of mana so damn fast I'd be useless to quick.

    So tell me Cabalists, how to you deal with it?

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    For the mana issue i use 51 cab/14 inq/ 1 warden and use the aggressive renewal and the sign of power sigil, I try to save sigil for a sign of asias. If you do that you will be at 100% mp.
    As for single target if you are 51/14/1 you can hold your own against an inq it is dificult though. I use sanction, vex, dark water, decay, obliterate shadow bolt, till i start over then next rotation is sanction, vex, dark water, aggressive renewal and finish with shadow bolts. If you do a third rotation before obliterate is up then after dark water use shadow bolts.
    I found cabalist very fun and much better aoe than inquisitor and can support the tank better than an inquisitor with dispel silence slow maelstrom and stun.
    Last edited by Flamme; 06-22-2011 at 07:09 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Sorry to say, cabalist is not high learning curve. Its an uncomfortable class when compared to inq due to unnecessarily;ly clunky mechanics. But its usage is very simplistic. Mechanic even. The biggest task is simply choosing opportune times to go to work. Other than that, simple rotation, asias at the proper time. But if it makes you feel better to call it complex, by all means do so.

    It brings nothing to the table that an inq doesnt utility wise, other than mass effects, which is only detrimental to the slow witted and those without senti. Immunity kicks in quickly during mass effect when any mage and warrior is within the area. And the CC is on long CD which require set up, and when/if you miss asias spam you are stuck there being mediocre, slow reactionary, and easily taken down (YOU may be able to survive in the back against bads, but i can assure you, any survival built inq will out last you, and would be able to actually fight back decently)

    The only thing cabs have going for them, is obliterate. And as someone who used cab from rank 1->4 and Inq from then on, the difference between mobility and effectiveness increased tremendously. And the fact that inq builds are not restrictive in order to be effective build wise, one can spec for any situations, instead of for mass amounts of people.

    Tyranny damage goes down per use, per person in the area. I mean, after the firt tyranny, people do tend to move away and los, making anything there after weak (kinda like SD which is commonly used, however, i can bet an inq would be able to get it off even with a stun set up.)

    Obliterate is really its own selling point, which i wont deny its strong damage, but until they fix the CoO los issue, at the end of the day, CoO would have caused, and assisted more deaths, and obliterate.

    The fact that inq does just as much damage, over a class that is suppose to be the designated AoEr really says something, Assuming the average cabalist survives as long as the average inq.

    Cabalist needs a lot of work and i stand by my statement that is only good when you are able to sit still, and aoe a group, without any repercussions, and groups i face, wont allow that to happen. Wasting CD and time. And making a cabalist situational at best, but not worth it.

    If it were 1.1, when i used it, yeah, it was indeed unappreciated and king. Now its more nuisance and annoying.
    I guess you are just bad then, because I consistently dominate the field with cabalist

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