+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: Shaman / Inquisitor question

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    221

    Default Shaman / Inquisitor question

    I did a few searches and found my exact question on the forum from March. There were no replies and it closed. So here it goes! This applies to druid and justicar, as well.

    Faith in action => Basically, you want all spell crit, intel, wisdom, spellpower etc. because they buff your caster and melee stats now. As I increase intel / spell crit, my physical crit goes up. Here's the question.

    Inquisitor's first 5 talents, inner focus "increases the critical hit chance of damaging spells by 1-5%." When I spec into this, I don't see my spell crit increased, nor my physical. Yes, go test it yourself. When you spec into those 5 points, you will see no change in the spell crit stat (doesn't show spell crit nor the +5 after your base crit). I assume because this is only damaging abilities, not ALL spell crit, that it doesn't show the change to spell crit as a whole.

    So obviously, I cannot tell if it is applying that 5% offensive crit to physical abilities as well. The only way would be objective parses for a shaman with and without inner focus in the inquisitor tree, but I have yet to get a parser nor figure one out.

    Is there any knowledge on this?? Thanks guys!

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    7

    Default

    lets say u have 500 spell crit...

    when u take iner focus 5/5 u get 5% crit...

    however it does not work like the sentinel or cabalist talents that increse spell power by 5%...
    meaning its not 500x5%
    its just that...5% more crit(and that is a good thing)...
    if you have 5/5 on the druid skill that also increases your crit(that increases both melee and spell crit) you will get a total of 10% crit more...
    they way u can see that is by pointing your mouse to the amount of spel crit you have (on your characters sheet)and then moving it a bit upwards where it will show you the extact % you get out of the spel crit you acumulate from your gear +10% from those talents ...

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    221

    Default

    Wow, not to flame, but you are completely illiterate.

    You DO NOT see the +5% crit to damaging spells from inner focus when you mouse over the spell crit icon and look at the total (base + extra's from talents). Like I said, I'm sure this is because it does not give you 5% crit, it gives you 5% crit to damaging abilities only.

    You also failed to grasp the entire point of the thread, which is clearly posted. I'm not flaming or anything, I just don't want you thinking you answered the question or anything. So here I am, asking anyone else to look into that 5% damaging spell crit ==> converted to damaging melee ability crit from faith in action.

    Thanks for any info!
    Last edited by Zarak; 06-20-2011 at 07:26 PM.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    221

    Default

    In addition, I know the druid talent is 5% critical hit chance, so you get 5 to spell and physical, it does NOT double doup the physical crit. You do not get 5% spell crit, 5% physical crit, then another 5% physical crit from the 5 spell crit converting into physical crit. Speccing into those 5 points, your physical crit goes up 5 and your spell goes up 5.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    215

    Default

    ive been asking myself the same question for a while.

    i GUES its only for casts. but that leads to the next question: what are casts....


    i think u could test this by some 30min+ parses and look at ur crit chance maybe

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,140

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathom View Post
    ive been asking myself the same question for a while.

    i GUES its only for casts. but that leads to the next question: what are casts....


    i think u could test this by some 30min+ parses and look at ur crit chance maybe
    as a general rule, whatever you cant do when silenced is a cast.

    for example, for a shaman/inq/just build casts would be :
    all inq abilities
    jolt
    bor+sovereignity from justicar.

    those abilities get the 5% crit bonus from inq, all other strikes don't.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander Bladesake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shroudb View Post
    as a general rule, whatever you cant do when silenced is a cast.

    for example, for a shaman/inq/just build casts would be :
    all inq abilities
    jolt
    bor+sovereignity from justicar.

    those abilities get the 5% crit bonus from inq, all other strikes don't.
    That sounds believable, but I must ask, where did you get that info from? It seems highly plausible, but so is the theory that if it costs mana, then it's "cast," which is what I had been thinking all along.

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,140

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladesake View Post
    That sounds believable, but I must ask, where did you get that info from? It seems highly plausible, but so is the theory that if it costs mana, then it's "cast," which is what I had been thinking all along.
    what do you mean where i get that info?

    if p.e. a skill is a mellee attack (like strike of judgment p.e.) then it is a melle attack, not a spell. it's simple as that.

    you can test with disarms and silences. the one blocks attacks the other blocks spells.

    another way to test that is with the mana return skills of justi/shaman/druid. the tooltip says that it affects only mellee attacks and if you try it with a spell you will see that it wont return mana.

    same thing happens with votws.

    some exceptions exist though such as souldrain that for some reason procs votws and DoA that for some reason doesn't work with purpose.
    Last edited by shroudb; 06-21-2011 at 04:06 AM.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    280

    Default

    Inner Focus only affects spells.

    Spells are all the abilities that do NOT say "requires melee weapon".

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser DegnaRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Faith in Action only adds the raw Spell Crit stat into the Physical Crit stat. Fanatic's Faith adds directly to the percent chance to crit on spells without affecting either raw stat number (this will show up on the tooltip with 1.3).

    The same situation arises with Armor of Awakening having no affect on physical crit chance or damage. However, Armor of Devotion will add raw Spell Crit (and Spell Power) and thus affect Physical Crit (and Attack Power).

    Attack vs. Spell in general doesn't seem to have a user facing distinguishing characteristic. "Requires Melee Weapon" is a good rule of thumb, but Doctrine of Authority requires a melee weapon but still uses spell stats.

    To add confusion, Talents like Cabalisteath's Grasp (+5% spell damage) or Shamanauntless Courage from Shaman (+5% physical damage) will likely only care whether the damage type is Physical or Magical. I'll try to test this with Justicar tonight. Compare/contrast with Justicar:Hammer of Virtue (melee attacks do +5% damage).

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarak View Post
    I did a few searches and found my exact question on the forum from March. There were no replies and it closed. So here it goes! This applies to druid and justicar, as well.

    Faith in action => Basically, you want all spell crit, intel, wisdom, spellpower etc. because they buff your caster and melee stats now. As I increase intel / spell crit, my physical crit goes up. Here's the question.

    Inquisitor's first 5 talents, inner focus "increases the critical hit chance of damaging spells by 1-5%." When I spec into this, I don't see my spell crit increased, nor my physical. Yes, go test it yourself. When you spec into those 5 points, you will see no change in the spell crit stat (doesn't show spell crit nor the +5 after your base crit). I assume because this is only damaging abilities, not ALL spell crit, that it doesn't show the change to spell crit as a whole.

    So obviously, I cannot tell if it is applying that 5% offensive crit to physical abilities as well. The only way would be objective parses for a shaman with and without inner focus in the inquisitor tree, but I have yet to get a parser nor figure one out.


    Is there any knowledge on this?? Thanks guys!
    I think I can help you understand this if you haven't found the answer yet.

    When you see a talent that increases crit for a certain spell or ability. Like for example "Increases crit chance of X spell by 15%"

    Well then you know that if you look at your character sheet you will see a number for you % crit, but when you cast that one spell it gets an extra 15% on top of that. Inner focus works like that, but instead of spell X it works on all damaging spells, it adds an extra 5% chance to crit on top of your % crit.

    So it does NOT translate to meele abilities true Faith in Action.

    Hope this helped.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander Bladesake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shroudb View Post
    what do you mean where i get that info?
    Exactly what I asked. Where did it come from? Some official channel like a dev post or something I may have missed, did some reliable player parse it, or what?

    Quote Originally Posted by shroudb View Post
    some exceptions exist though such as souldrain that for some reason procs votws and DoA that for some reason doesn't work with purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by DegnaRed View Post
    Attack vs. Spell in general doesn't seem to have a user facing distinguishing characteristic. "Requires Melee Weapon" is a good rule of thumb, but Doctrine of Authority requires a melee weapon but still uses spell stats.

    To add confusion, Talents like Cabalisteath's Grasp (+5% spell damage) or Shamanauntless Courage from Shaman (+5% physical damage) will likely only care whether the damage type is Physical or Magical. I'll try to test this with Justicar tonight. Compare/contrast with Justicar:Hammer of Virtue (melee attacks do +5% damage).
    The reason why I question you is exactly this. Strange exceptions such as these where you have no way of guessing what effects a talent may yield without messing around with it a bit. Unfortunately, I don't have time to devote to this, so I come here to ask.

    How would anyone ever guess that Soul Drain would proc Vengeance of Winter Storm? It just doesn't make sense at all on paper since SD is quite clearly a spell and VoWS specifically says that it works in conjunction with melee attacks, but in reality it very plainly works with this one spell. Why? Just how many more strange synergies are out there but simply are not apparent?

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Internetosaura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    130

    Default Another question on topic

    i was phrasing these 2 builds
    1)Shaman(45)/Inq(11)/Druid(10)
    2)Shaman(44)/Inq(11)/Sentinel(11)

    and the result was that i had same PC and AP on both though the druid build has +5% crit chance instead of +5% cirt dmg and healing bonus.Any1 can explain it?
    Clerics: Jack of all trades, Ace of none.

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser DegnaRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Internetosaura View Post
    i was phrasing these 2 builds
    1)Shaman(45)/Inq(11)/Druid(10)
    2)Shaman(44)/Inq(11)/Sentinel(11)

    and the result was that i had same PC and AP on both though the druid build has +5% crit chance instead of +5% cirt dmg and healing bonus.Any1 can explain it?
    Answered earlier in the thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by DegnaRed View Post
    Faith in Action only adds the raw Spell Crit stat into the Physical Crit stat. Fanatic's Faith adds directly to the percent chance to crit on spells without affecting either raw stat number (this will show up on the tooltip with 1.3).
    Spirit of the Hunter, and any other talent directly adding a crit chance percentage or damage percentage isn't going to affect the spell power, attack power, spell crit, or physical crit stats. The talents add in after the stat value is calculated into a percentage. The tooltips on your character sheet will show something like X% (Y% + Z%), # spell crit adds Y% to your chance to crit. These talents are responsible for the Z%.

  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,140

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladesake View Post
    Exactly what I asked. Where did it come from? Some official channel like a dev post or something I may have missed, did some reliable player parse it, or what?
    through parsing.

    p.e. the 5%physical damage talent in the shaman tree used to apply in all justicar attacks in (i think) beta 4 and before. then it was fixed to apply to only physical damaging skills and not life mellee attacks. this had been argued in the beta if it was correct or not. through parsing we got the correct result.

    judging what is a mellee skill and what is a spell (as i said numerous times before) it's quite easy:
    option a)one can be disarmed the other can be silenced
    option b)wear some leather gear and parse your critical with melle and spells
    option c) (no longer viable and the one used long time ago to gauge those obvious things):

    in beta, the "faith in action" wasn't a passive, it was part of a buff for each melle soul, p.e. for justicar it was tied to cavalier. so you could test with and without it to see which skills are affected by ap/pcrit and which from sp/spcrit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bladesake View Post

    The reason why I question you is exactly this. Strange exceptions such as these where you have no way of guessing what effects a talent may yield without messing around with it a bit. Unfortunately, I don't have time to devote to this, so I come here to ask.

    How would anyone ever guess that Soul Drain would proc Vengeance of Winter Storm? It just doesn't make sense at all on paper since SD is quite clearly a spell and VoWS specifically says that it works in conjunction with melee attacks, but in reality it very plainly works with this one spell. Why? Just how many more strange synergies are out there but simply are not apparent?
    you have a theory, with no backup for it. well, your theory is wrong
    you were given/told the ways to check it (silences, trying different gears, etc)
    yet, regardless that you did 0 testing, you still dont believe what everyone is telling you. everything told is tested, you can check it yourself, you can believe it or deny it, it makes no differance.

    as for a dev post, no, i doubt that there has been an mmo that was too open on it's exact mechanics for obvious reasons. that's why we test things and we parse to discern the mechanics as best as we can by ourselfs.
    Last edited by shroudb; 06-22-2011 at 01:11 AM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts