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Thread: Bad patch is bad

  1. #1
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    Default Bad patch is bad

    And you all know why. Yes, inquis or melee have no mana issues at all. Healing clerics pulling the highest HPS in the game are already mana starved with insane levels of Wis (thanks mainly to the ridiculous cost of some abilities) and because Cascade is, stupidly, only returning 15% (chloros get what.. 60%.. and archons get 30% just like cascade.. target another person and 30% of your mana regen to them... ).

    Seriously, what moron is in charge of changes like this? I can't fathom the conversation that took place that resulted in such a ridiculous change. Why do we even have chain if now cloth has a heavy weight to it because int >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wis?

    Stupid.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer rantology's Avatar
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    clerics have not received any meaningful changes since release and the only tweaks we've gotten are lackluster and completely out of touch with the problems our various roles and specs have.. the only decent thing they've done is the devout deflection change for justicar tanks, and even then the tanking role as a whole for clerics could still use some work.

    The mana regen change was just unnecessary, I always thought the regen in this game was negligible and totally unreliable to begin with. Especially since the primary healing calling has 1 ****ty regen ability out of 3 full healing trees.

    do we even have a dev ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    Healing clerics pulling the highest HPS in the game are already mana starved with insane levels of Wis.
    this is simply untrue. I'm thinking your just trolling. When I AoE heal, its with Inquisicar or Senticar, and I have used 51 warden, none of the three have left we ever wishing I had more mana. High Warden specs are extremely mana efficient, Inquisicar has Aggressive Renewal, and Senticar if needed can run in and Purpose + Strike of Judgment spam. And God forbid, in a worse case scenario, you might have to use a mana pot!

    If you are going oom, you, or your raid members are doing something wrong. With all the crazy raid buffs that contribute to your mana, you should have no issue. My guild has all current content cleared, been farming for a while, but when we first killed Alsbeth, we hit the enrage timer once or twice, which is Ridiculously long, but I still was not oom then.

    Play better. Nothing is wrong with our mana as is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulltiras View Post
    this is simply untrue. I'm thinking your just trolling. When I AoE heal, its with Inquisicar or Senticar, and I have used 51 warden, none of the three have left we ever wishing I had more mana. High Warden specs are extremely mana efficient, Inquisicar has Aggressive Renewal, and Senticar if needed can run in and Purpose + Strike of Judgment spam. And God forbid, in a worse case scenario, you might have to use a mana pot!

    If you are going oom, you, or your raid members are doing something wrong. With all the crazy raid buffs that contribute to your mana, you should have no issue. My guild has all current content cleared, been farming for a while, but when we first killed Alsbeth, we hit the enrage timer once or twice, which is Ridiculously long, but I still was not oom then.

    Play better. Nothing is wrong with our mana as is.
    For those of us that DONT want to go half Justicar healer Mana is BAD for any AoE healing fights, even in T2 dungeons solo healing some AoE healing fights (with all the talents to reduce mana costs) can still cause us to go OOM

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    Sword of Telara Furienify's Avatar
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    Have you tried not solo healing it?

    I'm not trying to be snarky, here, but I took a month or so break from Rift and came back to find that all the Expert dungeons were pretty much gutted difficulty-wise. I remember that having a Bard or a Chloro - or both, in some cases (Atrophinius) was a necessity for some fights. Never found much wrong with it.

    In all my raid experiences, our Clerics have no mana issues. As an Archon none of them are ever bothering me for Mental Flare, I have to hunt people out and top them off myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Player0ne View Post
    This thread screams, " I'm glad healing is getting nerfed..now please dont quit healing us."

  6. #6
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    I agree the mana issues on a cleric can be rather annoying, even with Cascade... that's why I've made sure to keep my cleric stocked on mana potions.

    I've never really used mana potions in other games, 'cause I've never played classes that really needed to, but I find myself sometimes struggling in RIFT. I'm sure I'm partly to blame for my over-abundance of heals at times, but sometimes I just feel like

    Then again, I like that I actually have to try a little bit harder in this game to watch my mana. I mean, when I played a disc priest in WoW during WRATH I never had issues and it was cake. While that really didn't make the class boring for me, I was so used to having it hella easy, that when Cata came out and they nerfed that, I found myself QQing like the hunters

    IDK what my point was. I don't mind that I have to actually try to watch my mana... and if I don't manage it well, I have to chug a potion to make up for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulltiras View Post
    this is simply untrue. I'm thinking your just trolling. When I AoE heal, its with Inquisicar or Senticar, and I have used 51 warden, none of the three have left we ever wishing I had more mana. High Warden specs are extremely mana efficient, Inquisicar has Aggressive Renewal, and Senticar if needed can run in and Purpose + Strike of Judgment spam. And God forbid, in a worse case scenario, you might have to use a mana pot!

    If you are going oom, you, or your raid members are doing something wrong. With all the crazy raid buffs that contribute to your mana, you should have no issue. My guild has all current content cleared, been farming for a while, but when we first killed Alsbeth, we hit the enrage timer once or twice, which is Ridiculously long, but I still was not oom then.

    Play better. Nothing is wrong with our mana as is.
    I'm going to start by saying that you are right. Mana is not an issue and never has been for clerics. We also have all of the raid content cleared and none of our clerics run out of mana, ever. I am a tanking cleric, however I do heal a few fights. Such as plutonus. I heal as Senticar in melee range of him at all times. I have no problems pulling upwards of 1500hps in subpar alt spec gear (half and half t2/t3). I know people will just tell me that purpose is how I never run out of mana but that's not true. This weeks kill I didn't even use purpose, parsed 1471hps and at the end of the fight I still had over 90% mana. With the amount of raid buffs available I find it impossible to run out of mana. Unless you're an idiot that stands there spamming HC from the sentinel tree or something, it's really impossible. Verse of joy every 2 minutes is enough on it's own. That coupled with fervor, well you get the idea.

    Secondly, I'm going to say that anyone who is raid healing as a warden is just, well, dumb. Warden has inferior mana management, inferior hps capabilities aoe and single target and just isnt suited for any fight as it is mainly hots. All fights in this game are consistent burst damage and hits just don't cut it. I could argue this point to the end of time, in pve, the warden soul has no place. The soul really just needs a rework.

    Lastly, Jmerlin, or Help as he is known on deepstrike, where I also play is a giant troll and anything he says should be taken with a grain of salt. He sits in 50 chat all day trolling everyone and has nothing to back anything he says up with. Hell even his sig is a troll, his guild may be 9/9 but he is not. When asked to show achievements he never links them and just comes up with a snide remark as to why he is better than you and doesn't have to link he achievements to prove it.

    Also, he's one of those worthless warden healers I mentioned.

  8. #8
    Champion of Telara Morituri's Avatar
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    This may be one of those areas that would benefit from different mechanics pvp v pve. It's absolutely needed in pvp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paspinall View Post
    For those of us that DONT want to go half Justicar healer Mana is BAD for any AoE healing fights, even in T2 dungeons solo healing some AoE healing fights (with all the talents to reduce mana costs) can still cause us to go OOM
    14 points (or even 12 if you dont want righteous mandate) is not exactly half. In fact, its not even 1/4 of your points. But good try.

    I don't do too many 5 mans these days, but when I do, I use 34Sent/32Ward (the best tank healing/AoE healing combo) and I can usually go through an entire expert without drinking once.

    Like I said, play better

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    Before I commence this epic pwnage, please allow me to introduce everyone here to Yavi. Please forgive me, mods, but Yavi has been found making personal attacks against players on this board and as such I feel stating facts about him (as far as our server goes, and his stature therein which is public knowledge) is completely warranted.

    Yavi started playing Deepstrike with me and a few other people who are in Unstable right now, and a couple who aren't. From the get-go, his demeanor was quite clear. He always had an opinion and despite massive levels of blatant arrogance, he insisted he was right when he was demonstrably false. Mix that up with his repetitive racist "humor" and absolute determination to use the word "******" (in case of filter, racial slur for black people) in every sentence, and you get a quick and dirty guess at what Yavi is like. Ultimately, he turns out to be competitive to the point of the detriment of those who play with him and is only interested in relationships insofar as they benefit him in some way. For instance, as soon as I was seen as a "forum troll" he made a public post on these forums denouncing me as basically "some kid I leveled with" in attempt to save face.

    It's so bad to the point that he blatantly lies about stats and achievements to impress people, demonstrated by his very own posts in this forum:
    1. http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...71#post1174171
    2. http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...81#post2568681

    .. and more but I'm too lazy to do your research for you. He was kicked from Unstable and several other guilds on our server for claiming he had some 1400+ spellpower. He broke friendships with people because he went so far as to scam a Minecraft server.

    This, my Cleric brethren, is the prime example of a gigantic ******bag if there ever was one. If these actions (and they are a small sample of the numerous atrocities committed by this fool) do not fit the definition precisely, the term should be redefined.

    Now, to retort to his blatant flame post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    I'm going to start by saying that you are right. Mana is not an issue and never has been for clerics.
    This is patently false. Melee clerics, hybrids, and single-target healers don't have mana issues usually in higher gear levels. Sure, if you have 400 MP10, it's not an issue, but we all know how possible that is to achieve. You had that as a fresh 50 when it's not even possible pre-nerf with full T4 relics and raid buffed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    [ We also have all of the raid content cleared and none of our clerics run out of mana, ever.
    This is also not true. If you're running all hybrids that would explain why it's taken you so long to finish RoS, even though you're bugging the idols (lol, fail).

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    I am a tanking cleric, however I do heal a few fights. Such as plutonus. I heal as Senticar in melee range of him at all times. I have no problems pulling upwards of 1500hps in subpar alt spec gear (half and half t2/t3). I know people will just tell me that purpose is how I never run out of mana but that's not true.
    That's actually true. Even the most geared hybrids run out of mana without using AR and purpose. You're also not pulling 1500 hps because you're bad, not because it's not possible. Let's recap the healing situation in Resistance. I was invited to the guild (no, I did not need to app, like you did) because I pugged in a GSB run and outhealed everyone by a MASSIVE margin. I was pm'ed by at least 4 people asking me to join. I was told you would be getting kicked, and this is why I joined the guild. I was later kicked from the guild with the best excuse ever: I refused to heal you in a raid because you're a waste of a raid spot. And to further recap, you had the worst tunnel vision of any healer I've ever seen. That includes the healers I see in T1 randoms who don't even cleanse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    This weeks kill I didn't even use purpose, parsed 1471hps and at the end of the fight I still had over 90% mana.
    Why must you lie? I have some of the top clerics in the world (myself included) laughing at you because of this post. I hope you're joking in some way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    With the amount of raid buffs available I find it impossible to run out of mana.
    What, 200 MP/10, which is about what you can do in full T3 + raid buffs? Not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    Unless you're an idiot that stands there spamming HC from the sentinel tree or something, it's really impossible.
    No good hybrid doesn't use HC. DoL 4x with a recoup time of 3 GCDs (on average, even including crits if you're using a terrible build with justicar high enough to double-conviction when you crit), when damage is really high, you have serendipity which means HC spamming is viable instead of rebuilding convictions in the middle of massive raid damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    Verse of joy every 2 minutes is enough on it's own. That coupled with fervor, well you get the idea.
    DoL still costs 200 mana and VoJ is 50*15 = 750 mana regen. That's less than 4 convictions. Yep, because that'll hold you. I sit at well over 6000 mana in raids, so that's not even 12.5% mana, less even than a single cascade. Quite a bit less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    Secondly, I'm going to say that anyone who is raid healing as a warden is just, well, dumb.
    Why? Let's see you contradict yourself, because that's always HILARIOUS to see:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    Warden has inferior mana management
    How? Purpose? But you don't use that, so cascade + the VoJ & fervor you mentioned coupled with resonance? They're actually incredibly mana efficient.... but you wouldn't know because you can't heal and know nothing about the healing trees, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    inferior hps capabilities aoe and single target and just isnt suited for any fight as it is mainly hots. All fights in this game are consistent burst damage and hits just don't cut it. I could argue this point to the end of time, in pve, the warden soul has no place. The soul really just needs a rework.
    Not really. It has much higher single-target HPS potential than hybrid buidls (including senticars), and actually has higher AoE HPS than them at the same time. The only thing you've seemed to pick up on is my insistence around here that 51 warden is bad because it's terrible for burst AoE healing, but you aren't in a position to make that argument. I posted parses of me being far, far higher than 51 wardens in world-class guilds to demonstrate my point. You're in a guild that has trouble in GSB/RoS and you're less geared as a tank-main than 4-5 of our clerics as off-specs. You seem to be out of place, hilariously, and act like you're in a position of authority (or even intelligence, which is another story altogether with you, ROFL). Tsk tsk, what's new though?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    Lastly, Jmerlin, or Help as he is known on deepstrike, where I also play is a giant troll and anything he says should be taken with a grain of salt.
    Funnily enough, the best clerics agree with me. But why? I'm in one of the best guilds in the world which you got laughed out of. But why? Hmmmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    He sits in 50 chat all day trolling everyone and has nothing to back anything he says up with.
    I'm almost never on except for raiding and I just happen to enjoy logicraping the noobs in /50 chat like yourself. I did ignore you long ago, though, because your opinion is never accurate even when borrowed, and you have nothing to contribute of value to any community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    Hell even his sig is a troll, his guild may be 9/9 but he is not. When asked to show achievements he never links them and just comes up with a snide remark as to why he is better than you and doesn't have to link he achievements to prove it.
    I've never been asked to show achievements. But since you're so adamant that I haven't: http://i56.tinypic.com/2a7hsg6.png

    Cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yavi View Post
    Also, he's one of those worthless warden healers I mentioned.
    Not quite. Back when you were advocating 51 purifier for 5-mans even though you could barely heal a tank as good as Spike was, I had already been playing with P/S since beta, having actually looked at the abilities and what was good/bad. Funnily, after you started doing experts, you and God coordinated some stupid 3x/3x P/S build that you still consider the best or something, apparently not even understanding what it is meant to do and thus what it's good at. Long before you thought you had something viable, I had settled after long consideration with other much more talented clerics on a W/S build that was bar-none the best for what was needed save certain niches. I've even advocated for hybrids for the total combination of contribution to the raid making them better (for almost all players). I still play W/S because I do it better and my gear makes it better.

    No doubt with your staunch arrogance you convinced those who you were running experts with that purifier was "superior" or something like this because I was told multiple times by those people that my build wasn't as good. I'd bet you if you asked them again (if they haven't ignored you, which is unlikely) they'd disagree now, though.

    Just for funs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0psdm3mTHU, even when we do it sloppily, we don't need to purge icons. Keep it up, pro status.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspinall View Post
    For those of us that DONT want to go half Justicar healer Mana is BAD for any AoE healing fights, even in T2 dungeons solo healing some AoE healing fights (with all the talents to reduce mana costs) can still cause us to go OOM
    Well said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulltiras View Post
    this is simply untrue. I'm thinking your just trolling. When I AoE heal, its with Inquisicar or Senticar, and I have used 51 warden, none of the three have left we ever wishing I had more mana. High Warden specs are extremely mana efficient, Inquisicar has Aggressive Renewal, and Senticar if needed can run in and Purpose + Strike of Judgment spam. And God forbid, in a worse case scenario, you might have to use a mana pot!

    If you are going oom, you, or your raid members are doing something wrong. With all the crazy raid buffs that contribute to your mana, you should have no issue. My guild has all current content cleared, been farming for a while, but when we first killed Alsbeth, we hit the enrage timer once or twice, which is Ridiculously long, but I still was not oom then.

    Play better. Nothing is wrong with our mana as is.

    Some of us like to play true caster clerics and not the latsest fotm gimick that comes along.

    So your guild has current content cleared. The mana problems dont exist with max geared clerics. Its the MAJORITY of clerics in this games who are still progrssing throung GSB and T2s that have mana issues.

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    Jmerlin:

    I've been interested in integrating heavier warden rather than sent/pur. I know it's slightly off-topic but could you post your current build (e.g. a soul builder link)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by plasmacutter View Post
    Jmerlin:

    I've been interested in integrating heavier warden rather than sent/pur. I know it's slightly off-topic but could you post your current build (e.g. a soul builder link)?
    Something like this, switching around a few points for whatever you want (say if you want reflect, bres, etc).

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...Ro.E0xxbszco.x

    I haven't freed up points in reflect/bres for more crit just because I'm lazy. I think I'm only 2 into FS so I'm losing a significant amount of crit, but I still nearly break 2k HPS over 10-15 minutes of parsing so I don't think it's a big issue.

  15. #15
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    Default explore to solve your problem

    if you area having issues with mana try what i do. I run 51 warden, 12 inquis, 3 sentinal.... the important thing is the 12 points in inquisitor. With them you can get agressive renewal and perseverance (to help your tank). I have used this and had the ability to chainpull entire instances without ever having to use a pot or sit and drink....

    Give it a try, you just might like it

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