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Thread: Justicar's Revenge Build... A melee alternative to the Inquisicar build

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Default Justicar's Revenge Build... A melee alternative to the Inquisicar build

    Ok I know the build name is silly but I am tired of the "isicar" names and there are already a million of them. I have had this build for a while now and have debated whether or not to post it since there are so many off-healing hybrid builds. However, I do think this build is unique enough that many of you would enjoy it and find it to be a better option for some situations.

    First off the build: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...EzbMx0qz.Ved0t

    The primary goal of this build is to not only put out max damage, but also to put out max healing from Reparation. This is a melee build even though most of your points will be spent in the Inquisitor tree. Other than Vex and Sanction Heretic, this build focuses on casting Justicar attacks to achieve the max reparation healing part of the goal. The keys to making this happen are Corporal Punishment and Armor of Awakening. Both of these boost your Justicar attack damage since all Justicar attacks are magic damage (even the melee attacks). Vex and Sanction Heretic will still make up a big portion of your dps (along with Jolt which I will get to later).

    I know you're probably thinking "but Strike of Judgment hits like a wet noodle". Sure it's not the hardest hitting melee attack in the game, however with this build I can easily crit for 850+ in a raid setting (not too shabby). That almost rivals the physical attacks that you would be doing as a cookie cutter druid/shammy/Inq with the added benefit of it generating heals and convictions. I should also add that since you will be playing as a melee, you will also be able to take advantage of Jolt for even more non-GCD dps and Vengeance of the Winter Storm. This is where this build will pull ahead of the typical Inquisicar build for dps.

    For AoE you will be able to use Soul Drain and Circle of Oblivion, so your AoE dps is very good.

    My macros are as follows:

    Single Target:
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Fanaticism
    cast Sanction Heretic
    cast Censure
    cast Bolt of Radiance
    cast Strike of Judgment
    cast Jolt
    cast Fated Blow
    cast Glory of The Chosen

    Note: You will be manually casting Vex when it expires. You may also choose to manually cast Fanaticism rather than macroing it as it may not always line up with your biggest hitting attack. For me it is easier just not to worry about it and use it as more of a means to keep up Corporal Punishment and to activate Jolt.

    For AoE:
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Fanaticism
    cast Soul Drain
    cast Circle of Oblivion
    cast Jolt
    cast Fated Blow
    cast Glory of The Chosen

    Note: Soul Drain also procs Vengeance of the Winter Storm on each mob it hits even though it's not a melee attack.

    Keep in mind that melee is not the easiest thing to play in all fights and you may choose to drop back to a normal ranged Inquisicar build in non-melee friendly fights. This build is just another fun option when you would like to squeeze out a bit more dps. As far as gearing, you will want to focus on dps stats and definitely prioritize crit. Also, this is build does not offer the utility or as much healing as a Senticar type of build, but it will offer superior dps while still allowing you to spam AoE heals.

    Enjoy!
    Last edited by kidbs; 06-15-2011 at 10:56 AM.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

  2. #2
    Telaran Asmiroth's Avatar
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    I am not quite sure what your goal is. If it's to off-heal, there are stronger options that go deeper into Justicar for EJ and perhaps Light Makes Right. If it's to deal damage, there's way too much investment in a spec that requires stopping what you are doing, standing still for 2-3 seconds and then starting again.

    More specific issues.

    - Convictions = better healing options.
    - Censure is overwritten by Clinging Spirits
    - Censure should never be macroed due to it's cooldown:uptime disparity
    - Fanaticism should be reserved for your largest damage attack and not macroed. If only to use it with Soul Drain or maybe Bolt of Radiance given your build
    - Lightning Hammer should be used
    - You are not healing a tiny fraction with your AE macro since you aren't generating convictions and the hindrance from Salvation/Reparation
    - I am pretty sure using Jolt (or any proc ability) in the middle of a CoO cast will stop your channel



    Perhaps you would like to try either a ranged off-healer or a melee off-healer build instead. Straddling the line between both is hindering your goals. The build isn't bad pre-se, just with a few tweaks you could probably end up with 10-20% more DPS and therefore more healing. The synergy with Corporal Punishment is nice.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmiroth View Post
    I am not quite sure what your goal is. If it's to off-heal, there are stronger options that go deeper into Justicar for EJ and perhaps Light Makes Right. If it's to deal damage, there's way too much investment in a spec that requires stopping what you are doing, standing still for 2-3 seconds and then starting again.
    I've already stated that there are better builds if you need stronger off-healing. This build is for more dps and will outdps any other offhealing justicar hybrid build. Also, why would you need to stand still for 2-3 seconds? You are only using melee attacks and instant casts with this build other than Soul Drain or CoO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmiroth View Post
    More specific issues.
    - Convictions = better healing options.
    Not quite sure what you mean by this statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmiroth View Post
    - Censure is overwritten by Clinging Spirits
    No it's not. Clinging Spirits stacks with other debuffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmiroth View Post
    - Censure should never be macroed due to it's cooldown:uptime disparity
    This can easily be pulled out of the macro if you choose. Honestly in a raid you would not even use it. I have mine in for 5-mans mostly and it's damage is only slightly lower than SoJ so it's more convenient to keep it in there

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmiroth View Post
    - Fanaticism should be reserved for your largest damage attack and not macroed. If only to use it with Soul Drain or maybe Bolt of Radiance given your build
    This was already addressed and acknowledged as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmiroth View Post
    - Lightning Hammer should be used
    Lightning Hammer is based off of physical damage which this build does not buff. It is a dps loss to throw this attack into your rotation (I have tested this already).

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmiroth View Post
    - You are not healing a tiny fraction with your AE macro since you aren't generating convictions and the hindrance from Salvation/Reparation
    Both Soul Drain and CoO will end up doing more reparation healing due to their higher damage values and the fact that they can hit more mobs. It is true that you won't be generating convictions from either attack but you can quickly get them by doing a few single target attacks. This is where I deliberately made a trade off for more dps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmiroth View Post
    - I am pretty sure using Jolt (or any proc ability) in the middle of a CoO cast will stop your channel
    This may be true. I actually don't have CoO in my macro and just stuck it in for the purposes of this post. This is where it would be nice to be able to edit a post

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmiroth View Post
    Perhaps you would like to try either a ranged off-healer or a melee off-healer build instead. Straddling the line between both is hindering your goals. The build isn't bad pre-se, just with a few tweaks you could probably end up with 10-20% more DPS and therefore more healing. The synergy with Corporal Punishment is nice.
    The goal of this build is definitely to maximize dps output while maintaining some off-healing abilities. There is no other build that I have found yet that can outperform the damage output, but you can certainly make other builds that will do more overall healing and offer more raid utility (Senticar being one). This build is ideal for those situations where you need to throw out some burst DoL heals but don't want to gimp your group's overall dps too much.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Another variation of this build is http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...xzbMx0qz.Ved0t

    Since mana is not a problem with this build, the above will give you the option to step back and use BoJ should melee become impossible. You should still stick to melee as much as possible however for max dps.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara Skryth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidbs View Post

    No it's not. Clinging Spirits stacks with other debuffs.
    Actually, Clinging Spirit and Censure do share a debuff slot. Censure seems to screw with all of the +magic damage taken debuffs, which gets annoying when your trying to keep both Clinging Spirit and Spiritual Deficiency up on a boss and the Justicar tank insists on using Censure, which removes both at once, even after telling him/her not to.
    Last edited by Skryth; 06-15-2011 at 12:30 PM.
    Jolly fat people are living proof that it is not possible to "laugh your *** off", though we're trying...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidbs View Post
    I've already stated that there are better builds if you need stronger off-healing. This build is for more dps and will outdps any other offhealing justicar hybrid build.
    I will officially challenge this statement, your listed single target DPS macro is pretty bad, your pretty much spamming strike of Judgment, the lowest damage ability we have, waiting for SH and Bolt of Radiance to come of CD, and HOPE that Strike of Judgment procs Jolt all the time. Barring a parse of you using this spec, I STRONGLY believe that Inquisicar will do more single target DPS, and SIGNIFICANTLY more HPS at the same time.

  7. #7
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulltiras View Post
    I will officially challenge this statement, your listed single target DPS macro is pretty bad, your pretty much spamming strike of Judgment, the lowest damage ability we have, waiting for SH and Bolt of Radiance to come of CD, and HOPE that Strike of Judgment procs Jolt all the time. Barring a parse of you using this spec, I STRONGLY believe that Inquisicar will do more single target DPS, and SIGNIFICANTLY more HPS at the same time.
    Go test this build for yourself before saying this. My single target macro is very much on purpose. Yes, Strike of Judgment will hit for slightly less than Bolt of Judgment, but remember that each melee hit also has a Vengeance of the Winter Storm proc which closes this gap even further. Also this build does boost strike of judgment damage by a quite a bit. 700-800+ Strike of Judgment crits are very much the norm in a raid. This alone will make SoJ heal for more than BoJ.

    In a raid my Jolt is always on cooldown and is used every 6 seconds, so that is a very real factor in the overall dps. Also, don't forget that you are in melee range so you will even be doing autoattacks for more damage.

    If you have a high crit % like I do, then this build will do more dps than an Inquisicar build that spams BoJ. Again, rather than speculating go and actually test. I have and this is why I came up with this build.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

  8. #8
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skryth View Post
    Actually, Clinging Spirit and Censure do share a debuff slot. Censure seems to screw with all of the +magic damage taken debuffs, which gets annoying when your trying to keep both Clinging Spirit and Spiritual Deficiency up on a boss and the Justicar tank insists on using Censure, which removes both at once, even after telling him/her not to.
    Well that's good to know. In a raid just take out the censure cast line since it's not needed anyway.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulltiras View Post
    I will officially challenge this statement, your listed single target DPS macro is pretty bad, your pretty much spamming strike of Judgment, the lowest damage ability we have, waiting for SH and Bolt of Radiance to come of CD, and HOPE that Strike of Judgment procs Jolt all the time. Barring a parse of you using this spec, I STRONGLY believe that Inquisicar will do more single target DPS, and SIGNIFICANTLY more HPS at the same time.
    I have to agree with this, justicar abilities have low base damage and scaling, anyone that tanks as a cleric can tell you this. Focusing on justicar abilities will lower you damage greatly. Im pretty sure even shamanicar would beat this in both healing and damage.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chromette View Post
    I have to agree with this, justicar abilities have low base damage and scaling, anyone that tanks as a cleric can tell you this. Focusing on justicar abilities will lower you damage greatly. Im pretty sure even shamanicar would beat this in both healing and damage.
    Again, go test and see for yourself. I know it seems counter-intuitive at first glance, but there is a synergy with this build. Shamanicar will not beat it. Your Strike of Judgement will hit for as much as any of your Shaman strikes with this build plus you will have beefed up Vex and Sanction Heretic on top of it. Also each of your hits will be healing for more and building convictions unlike the shammy attacks.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidbs View Post
    Again, go test and see for yourself. I know it seems counter-intuitive at first glance, but there is a synergy with this build. Shamanicar will not beat it. Your Strike of Judgement will hit for as much as any of your Shaman strikes with this build plus you will have beefed up Vex and Sanction Heretic on top of it. Also each of your hits will be healing for more and building convictions unlike the shammy attacks.
    I have tested this build, i figured the synergy between corporal punishment and the justicar strikes could close the margin and you could make better use of reperation. From the parses i tried i was disappointed.

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chromette View Post
    I have tested this build, i figured the synergy between corporal punishment and the justicar strikes could close the margin and you could make better use of reperation. From the parses i tried i was disappointed.
    What is your gear like? Honestly the biggest difference in terms of damage with this build will be Jolt. If your crit % isn't high enough to keep Jolt on a cooldown then the difference won't seem as big.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidbs View Post
    What is your gear like? Honestly the biggest difference in terms of damage with this build will be Jolt. If your crit % isn't high enough to keep Jolt on a cooldown then the difference won't seem as big.
    I tank in raids mainly but the fights where a hybrid is need i play that ie greenscale. So my dps gear isnt very hot but its up to about 38% chance to crit raid buffed.

  14. #14
    Telaran Asmiroth's Avatar
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    I would be curious as well to see what your crit % (heck all stats) is and if you tried another more common build with comparative parses. Given that most people are doubting what you state, even after testing it themselves, it would win your point.

  15. #15
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmiroth View Post
    I would be curious as well to see what your crit % (heck all stats) is and if you tried another more common build with comparative parses. Given that most people are doubting what you state, even after testing it themselves, it would win your point.
    My stats are:
    1003 spellpower
    641 crit

    I use the Bilesoaked Tome and the Invigorating Runeshard to boost my crit further.

    On the boss target dummy with an Inquisitar build (no external buffs, potions, etc...) I was able to pull 551 dps. On the same dummy I was able to pull 666 dps as my melee build. That is over a 100 dps difference. I can post the screenshots if necessary. If people are pulling more than my melee build as Inquisicar against the boss dummy than by all means tell me what your gear is and your rotation.

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