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Thread: Shamicar vs inquisicar as raid heals

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Shamicar vs inquisicar as raid heals

    Hey guys,

    Simple question what are, the pros and cons of each ? I've been trying to filter through the different threads but there is a bunch of junk so lets madge this constructive for those who have had experience with either and or both along with specs and dps/hps meters if you got them.

    The way I see it is that shamicar has mana regen but is susceptible to melee ranged events
    Whereas inquisicar can range itself from melee events but has mana issues.

    I'm pretty sure the dps is comparable.

    I haven't played either but will be building a spec so looking for feedback.

    Does the shamicar have any issue building conviction?
    Beat, Defiant, Mage of Deepstrike
    Beet, Guardian, Cleric of Belmont

    RIP Emberlord may you be ascended in another life.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    I've been more successful using the Inquisicar thus far, and that's even using Asphodels Primal Beacon with an Invigorating Runeshard, which shines more from a melee aspect.

    This is not to say that Shamicar fails in comparison, but I like the extra mobility that the Inq provides, plus a bit more "burstier" damage. Granted, I am set up gear/sigil wise for insanity crit levels ( approx 1000 raid buffed), and using the Lost Favor trinket from RD.

    My gear may also be a factor as to why I never have mana issues. Ever. I carry about 100 Heroic Mana Tonics at all times, my Bards have Verse of Joy up when available, and the Agressive Renewal fits in nicely when my Life/Death Concord proc is on cooldown. When AR is on cooldown, I use Shards of Light in that time frame.

    I just stand back, fire away, and usually get to avoid most of the mechanics that can tend to hinder me in melee range.
    Last edited by Guerrero; 06-15-2011 at 07:44 AM.

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  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Yea thats what I was thinking with verse of joy and the mana channeled spell...

    Thanks for your input. Whats your spec btw?
    Beat, Defiant, Mage of Deepstrike
    Beet, Guardian, Cleric of Belmont

    RIP Emberlord may you be ascended in another life.

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara Ferathka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russdog View Post
    Yea thats what I was thinking with verse of joy and the mana channeled spell...

    Thanks for your input. Whats your spec btw?
    I have to aggree with the above poster. I find that inq/justi is best overall for what you are looking for. Myself I run 41 inq/ 11 Justicar/ rest cabby. Some will argue that you should put the rest in sentinal. I'm just trying something out right now myself.

    As was said with Aggressive Renewal and pots and trinkets you should really have no problem with power. I know last night in GSB my group conviction heals were working great on the Greenscale fight with all the AOE damage players take. Couple button hits, as long as i kept conviction pts going, and most peeps were fine leaving the chloros and main heals to concentrate more on the tank and offtank.

    My 2cents.
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  5. #5
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    I use both specs pretty regularly. I love the shamicar just for being fun, and being a better balance of single and multi-target dps in a 5 man setting, while putting out a lot of passive group healing. That said, I usually switch to the druid or inquisicar build for bosses or raids.

    With my gear level and spec, I'm doing 500-550 dps when not casting heals. I run deep enough Sent for Protect the Flock and Healing Invocation to help out with healing if a healer drops, which is nice. I've 3-manned Plutonus in xDSM three times so far when we've had the main healer and a dps die. Between AR and the occasional mana pot, I've been able to keep going for 10 minutes like that.

    My build is 37 Inq/18 Sent/11 Just

    Unlike a lot of Inquisicars, I don't use Shards, or most of the instant cast spells. I hit with Spiritual Deficiency, then Vex, them Macro until I can Fanat/BoD. Then just continue spamming macro until you need to refresh SD, Vex, or BoD.

    Macro:
    #show Bolt of Judgment
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Sanction Heretic
    cast Bolt of Judgment
    cast Bolt of Radiance
    cast Life's Vengeance
    cast Banish

    You'll notice I have the instant cast spells after Bolt of Judgment, so they will never fire off while stationary. Putting them into the rotation is a DPS loss, since BoJ hits ever so slightly harder and can proc BoD. But, by putting them at the bottom, they will get cast if I hit the macro while running, allowing you to keep doing damage and building convictions during times of movement.

    Extra bonuses with this build:
    Purge
    Impede
    Quietus
    Perseverance
    Cleansing Prayer
    Healing Breath
    Touch the Light + Healing Communion or Healing Invocation

  6. #6
    Shield of Telara Ferathka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kramhtaed View Post
    I use both specs pretty regularly. I love the shamicar just for being fun, and being a better balance of single and multi-target dps in a 5 man setting, while putting out a lot of passive group healing. That said, I usually switch to the druid or inquisicar build for bosses or raids.

    With my gear level and spec, I'm doing 500-550 dps when not casting heals. I run deep enough Sent for Protect the Flock and Healing Invocation to help out with healing if a healer drops, which is nice. I've 3-manned Plutonus in xDSM three times so far when we've had the main healer and a dps die. Between AR and the occasional mana pot, I've been able to keep going for 10 minutes like that.

    My build is 37 Inq/18 Sent/11 Just

    Unlike a lot of Inquisicars, I don't use Shards, or most of the instant cast spells. I hit with Spiritual Deficiency, then Vex, them Macro until I can Fanat/BoD. Then just continue spamming macro until you need to refresh SD, Vex, or BoD.

    Macro:
    #show Bolt of Judgment
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Sanction Heretic
    cast Bolt of Judgment
    cast Bolt of Radiance
    cast Life's Vengeance
    cast Banish

    You'll notice I have the instant cast spells after Bolt of Judgment, so they will never fire off while stationary. Putting them into the rotation is a DPS loss, since BoJ hits ever so slightly harder and can proc BoD. But, by putting them at the bottom, they will get cast if I hit the macro while running, allowing you to keep doing damage and building convictions during times of movement.

    Extra bonuses with this build:
    Purge
    Impede
    Quietus
    Perseverance
    Cleansing Prayer
    Healing Breath
    Touch the Light + Healing Communion or Healing Invocation
    I may have to try this build out. I have had 3rd soul as cabby but miss the extra littles that you get with Sentinal. Maybe take a look when I get home before GSB.
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  7. #7
    Telaran
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    That's pretty much the build I had in mind but was debating HI or an extra point I'm inq

    I see, you didn't get righteous mandate from just. I was thinking that could come in handy to put on a mt ir mt healer in a sticky situation. Any thoughts
    Beat, Defiant, Mage of Deepstrike
    Beet, Guardian, Cleric of Belmont

    RIP Emberlord may you be ascended in another life.

  8. #8
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    If you have a cleric tank and there is more than one tank needed for the fight, you won't be able to use your mandate effectively most of the time. So it' can be rather useless depending on your raid setup (your cleric MT will put his mandate on an other MT, preventing you from mandating any of those 2 tanks. And yes it's worth it, he's a mt, he will get overhealed much more than you will ever be, thus granting mandate much more heals)

    But if you think it's a nice boost for tank healing and you have no cleric tank, then by all means take it^^ Righteous mandate felt completely useless for me on anything other than a tank, so now i'm skipping it.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Yea probably a waste of points there is never really a problem with mt healing .. I have been on raid heals with my warden/sent hybrid but honestly most fights are boring until aoe dmg then a lot of heals then boring again..
    Beat, Defiant, Mage of Deepstrike
    Beet, Guardian, Cleric of Belmont

    RIP Emberlord may you be ascended in another life.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    I've been holding on off posting this build for a while but I think this is a good place to drop it. First off the build: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...EzbMx0qz.Ved0t

    The primary goal of this build is to not only put out max damage, but also to put out max healing from Reparation. Other than Vex and Sanction Heretic, this build focuses on casting Justicar attacks to achieve the max reparation healing part of the goal. The keys to making this happen are Corporal Punishment and Armor of Awakening. Both of these boost your Justicar attack damage since all Justicar attacks are magic damage (even the melee attacks).

    I know you're probably thinking "but Strike of Judgment hits like a wet noodle". Sure it's not the hardest hitting melee attack in the game, however with this build I can easily crit for 850+ in a raid setting (not too shabby). That almost rivals the physical attacks that you would be doing as a cookie cutter druid/shammy/Inq with the added benefit of it generating heals and convictions. I should also add that since you will be playing as a melee, you will also be able to take advantage of Jolt for even more non-GCD dps and Vengeance of the Winter Storm. This is where this build will pull ahead of the typical Inquisicar build for dps.

    For AoE you will be able to use Soul Drain and Circle of Oblivion, so your AoE dps is very good.

    My macros are as follows:

    Single Target:
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Fanaticism
    cast Sanction Heretic
    cast Censure
    cast Bolt of Radiance
    cast Strike of Judgment
    cast Jolt
    cast Fated Blow
    cast Glory of The Chosen

    Note: You will be manually casting Vex when it expires. You may also choose to manually cast Fanaticism rather than macroing it as it may not always line up with your biggest hitting attack. For me it is easier just not to worry about it and use it as more of a means to keep up Corporal Punishment and to activate Jolt.

    For AoE:
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Fanaticism
    cast Soul Drain
    cast Circle of Oblivion
    cast Jolt
    cast Fated Blow
    cast Glory of The Chosen

    Note: Soul Drain also procs Vengeance of the Winter Storm on each mob it hits even though it's not a melee attack.

    Keep in mind that melee is not the easiest thing to play in all fights and you may choose to drop back to a normal ranged Inquisicar build in non-melee friendly fights. This build is just another fun option when you would like to squeeze out a bit more dps. As far as gearing, you will want to focus on dps stats and definitely prioritize crit.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    I like that, idea too you can drop back when necessary or move up and do more melee

    Couple questions though why dont you have any l and d concord but have contempt in the inq tree ?

    And in the sham tree why do you have thick skin and valner rather than increased physical dmg?

    and one last thing the only aoe heal you have is the group doctrine. does this effectively dish out aoe heals?
    Last edited by Russdog; 06-15-2011 at 11:12 AM.
    Beat, Defiant, Mage of Deepstrike
    Beet, Guardian, Cleric of Belmont

    RIP Emberlord may you be ascended in another life.

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russdog View Post
    I like that, idea too you can drop back when necessary or move up and do more melee

    Couple questions though why dont you have any l and d concord but have contempt in the inq tree ?

    And in the sham tree why do you have thick skin and valner rather than increased physical dmg?

    and one last thing the only aoe heal you have is the group doctrine. does this effectively dish out aoe heals?
    Actually this build is meant as purely a melee type of build. The contempt talent has nothing to do with L&D Concord. It's merely a survivability tool. You don't put any points into the shammy physical damage talent because none of the justicar attacks deal physical damage (they are all spell damage), thus those talent points wouldn't boost anything.

    DoL with a heavy crit build such as mine actually does dish out a lot of burst AoE healing. In a raid setting I sit at ~30% healing crit with this build (not to be confused with my actual melee or offensive spell crit %). I can easily pump out 1500-1800 DoL heal crits.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidbs View Post
    Actually this build is meant as purely a melee type of build. The contempt talent has nothing to do with L&D Concord. It's merely a survivability tool. You don't put any points into the shammy physical damage talent because none of the justicar attacks deal physical damage (they are all spell damage), thus those talent points wouldn't boost anything.

    DoL with a heavy crit build such as mine actually does dish out a lot of burst AoE healing. In a raid setting I sit at ~30% healing crit with this build (not to be confused with my actual melee or offensive spell crit %). I can easily pump out 1500-1800 DoL heal crits.


    They do add light damage but they deal weapon damage as well. But if its mainly melee I can see thewhy no LD.. I'm just wondering if that much survivability is necessary.
    Beat, Defiant, Mage of Deepstrike
    Beet, Guardian, Cleric of Belmont

    RIP Emberlord may you be ascended in another life.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidbs View Post
    I've been holding on off posting this build for a while but I think this is a good place to drop it. First off the build: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...EzbMx0qz.Ved0t

    The primary goal of this build is to not only put out max damage, but also to put out max healing from Reparation. Other than Vex and Sanction Heretic, this build focuses on casting Justicar attacks to achieve the max reparation healing part of the goal. The keys to making this happen are Corporal Punishment and Armor of Awakening. Both of these boost your Justicar attack damage since all Justicar attacks are magic damage (even the melee attacks).

    I know you're probably thinking "but Strike of Judgment hits like a wet noodle". Sure it's not the hardest hitting melee attack in the game, however with this build I can easily crit for 850+ in a raid setting (not too shabby). That almost rivals the physical attacks that you would be doing as a cookie cutter druid/shammy/Inq with the added benefit of it generating heals and convictions. I should also add that since you will be playing as a melee, you will also be able to take advantage of Jolt for even more non-GCD dps and Vengeance of the Winter Storm. This is where this build will pull ahead of the typical Inquisicar build for dps.

    For AoE you will be able to use Soul Drain and Circle of Oblivion, so your AoE dps is very good.

    My macros are as follows:

    Single Target:
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Fanaticism
    cast Sanction Heretic
    cast Censure
    cast Bolt of Radiance
    cast Strike of Judgment
    cast Jolt
    cast Fated Blow
    cast Glory of The Chosen

    Note: You will be manually casting Vex when it expires. You may also choose to manually cast Fanaticism rather than macroing it as it may not always line up with your biggest hitting attack. For me it is easier just not to worry about it and use it as more of a means to keep up Corporal Punishment and to activate Jolt.

    For AoE:
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Fanaticism
    cast Soul Drain
    cast Circle of Oblivion
    cast Jolt
    cast Fated Blow
    cast Glory of The Chosen

    Note: Soul Drain also procs Vengeance of the Winter Storm on each mob it hits even though it's not a melee attack.

    Keep in mind that melee is not the easiest thing to play in all fights and you may choose to drop back to a normal ranged Inquisicar build in non-melee friendly fights. This build is just another fun option when you would like to squeeze out a bit more dps. As far as gearing, you will want to focus on dps stats and definitely prioritize crit.
    Healing is going to be so weak in this spec, you might as well go into a full DPS build. Having Inq + Shaman is just not efficient, and your macro shows the reason, your spending 22 points in Shaman, and the ONLY thing your getting out of it is Jolt. Strike of Judgment is such a weak attack, and its the only physical attack in your macro. If you REALLY wanted to use this build, for whatever reason, as its healing is going to be extremely lacking, and its DPS not high enough to justify its use, at least use Lightning Hammer and Massive Blow in your macro.

    The Justicar, DoL-Based "Hybrid" healing specs are reliant on having Sentinel, or even Warden, as its 3rd soul to boost your healing output. Justicar + 2 DPS souls might make a good solo/leveling spec, but will not be good at raiding.

  15. #15
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russdog View Post
    They do add light damage but they deal weapon damage as well. But if its mainly melee I can see thewhy no LD.. I'm just wondering if that much survivability is necessary.
    The 5% physical damage increase does nothing for Justicar attacks at all. Those attacks are all life based and take no physical damage into the "weapon damage" equation.

    The 2 points that I put into contempt are really flexible and could go elsewhere. At a minimum you need to get 32 points for Armor of Awakening. AoA also causes you to take 5% more damage, so I figure any added survivability that you can get is a plus. There is another option to the build that would look like this:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...0qz.xuMo.Ved0t

    This will give you the option to step out at range if needed and cast Bolt of Judgment should melee become too hazardous.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

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