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Thread: Compilation of what's wrong with Cleric and possible fixes.

  1. #16
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radak View Post
    Explain to me how using a ability that is not on the gcd wastes a gcd?
    Was struggling with multiple words to put and thought i just said CD since interrupting a magic trash mobs really does nothing.

    All in all i still stand by the statement.

  2. #17
    Plane Walker Lifeline's Avatar
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    Maybe something similar to weapon barrage would be the best of both worlds. Either way it's not like anything i suggested is going to be implemented.
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  3. #18
    Prophet of Telara Radak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Was struggling with multiple words to put and thought i just said CD since interrupting a magic trash mobs really does nothing.

    All in all i still stand by the statement.
    So you think interrupting that 3.5k lightningstrike of those large tornado's in expert CC for example nothing. You do know that by interrupting it it goes on there cd meaning they can't cast it again. By silencing the mob you he won't waste his cd (unless you silence during the cast) and he can it the moment he comes out of the silence. Also the cd of a silence is always longer then that of a interrupt meaning you can use it less often.

    Yes having a silence would be nice but if you really want one there are a couple of specs where you could simple pick one up. (18 sentinal, 16 warden or 16 druid)

  4. #19
    Telaran
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    Agree with radak here completely. The interrupt is a far more useful and important ability to have than a silence.

    Most of the t2 instances have caster mobs that have a spell they spam you with and a big hitter that'll give you trouble if your not prepared. The interrupt has a short enough CD to interrupt the big hitting spells whenever they cast it.

    Baleful shademouths in RD are another good example. They spam fireballs at you which aren't too bad, but sometimes they'll drop a ground of power and shortly after if your not paying attn they'll cinderburst your *** for 3.5-4.5k. Sure they don't do this all the time, its quite common for them to die never trying to cast it, but I have seen my Warrior tank mate one time seem to get pretty much 1 shot. There happened to be 2 shademouths and we were all focused on killing the golem.

  5. #20
    Soulwalker Izzlua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    It seems you are speaking about trash mobs now, and you know what many justicars, or even people in the party do when there is a caster far away? They silence it, it comes, and everyone aoe it down with the rest of the trash


    If you are using interdict on trash mobs, you are wasting a gcd

    It has only one use, use against things that cant be silenced. And even then, for most encounters, whatever you interrupted will cast that same skill right after its interrupted and your interrupt is on CD. I see no reason why a justi not get a silence and i would trade interdict for it 10x over.



    Justicars used to have a couple of raid buffs for heavy investments and they took it out and give exclusivity to archons and bards, as well as one of them to druids for some reason.


    They do not want justicars to be a support type soul
    Interdict is fine, learn how to use line of sight and to use communication with your group, there isn't a single pull in any t1 or t2 that you can not LoS to you if you need to.

    Why would you want to drop an interrupt from a tanking soul? Think of how fun it would be to tank the second boss of DM with out one.

  6. #21
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radak View Post
    So you think interrupting that 3.5k lightningstrike of those large tornado's in expert CC for example nothing. You do know that by interrupting it it goes on there cd meaning they can't cast it again. By silencing the mob you he won't waste his cd (unless you silence during the cast) and he can it the moment he comes out of the silence. Also the cd of a silence is always longer then that of a interrupt meaning you can use it less often.

    Yes having a silence would be nice but if you really want one there are a couple of specs where you could simple pick one up. (18 sentinal, 16 warden or 16 druid)
    Thats more a complaint on the lack of mag def on justicar, than the importance of an interrupt, because no other tank seem to have a problem with said mobs, and thats from a healer and dps view point, in both cases, i have a silence and/or an interrupt, and silencing during cast solves whatever problem that might arise during magic bursts.

    If i am tanking, i do have a silence, and in no situation in any expert have i felt the need to use an interrupt, because my party mates already knows the silencing helps a lot more than an interrupt, especially when gathering mobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Izzlua View Post
    learn how to use line of sight .
    Or i can silence.
    Last edited by Eughe; 05-08-2011 at 09:10 AM.

  7. #22
    Soulwalker
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    I leveled up a cleric on the assumption that I could be a healer only to discover that I should have leveled a mage chloromancer. This in a nutshell is what is wrong with cleric healing, where a mage with one soul is a better healer than a cleric with two.

    Now I am not proposing any changes to chloromancer. Quite the opposite, they should be just bug fixed where needed and not nerfed at all.

    But the main healing souls for Clerics are too full of duplicate spells and underwhelming effects. Perhaps one option for Sentinel and Purifier might be to merge all the healing spells and such into Sentinel and Warden and turn Purifier into a pure dps soul focused on single target ranged dps based on life damage.
    Last edited by Nergui; 05-08-2011 at 10:10 AM.
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  8. #23
    Soulwalker Lebros's Avatar
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    I think it sucks how courage and heart spells are working atm. I saw someone post a pretty good idea here.

    Courage of the ____: Have it stack with other like skills but apply reduced stat gain to other players. So courage of the Jaguar could give you 40dex and the raid 20dex, or something to that effect.

    The same could be done with heart spells instead of having most of our shaman buffs be completely pointless in raids.

  9. #24
    Soulwalker
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    Any tank soul in this game has an interrupt. It's an essential part of tanking to be able to interrupt strong spells. It does not trigger GCD, so you can use it while spamming melee-abilities/doctrines, basically anything that does not have a timed cast. You do realize what this means right?

    A Boss can not be silenced. So a silence is useless during a boss-fight. Some Bosses can be interrupted and at least one boss in this game MUST be interrupted or he will simply kill you (the already mentioned 2nd Boss in DSM). So if we didn't have Intercept we just couldn't tank that mob.

    As far as I know only a few melee-dps-soul have interrupt abilities, no ranged-souls have them, but every tank soul does, what do you make of that?

    The cooldown for any silence is at least 30 seconds. Intercept only has 10 seconds. Warri-Tank souls have 6 seconds CDs on their interrupt.

    So I fail to see why I should prefer a silence over an interrupt. There is nothing wrong with intercept. Leave it as it is, or weaken the justicar to a point, where it is simply not a viable tank soul anymore.

  10. #25
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nergui View Post
    I leveled up a cleric on the assumption that I could be a healer only to discover that I should have leveled a mage chloromancer. This in a nutshell is what is wrong with cleric healing, where a mage with one soul is a better healer than a cleric with two.

    Now I am not proposing any changes to chloromancer. Quite the opposite, they should be just bug fixed where needed and not nerfed at all.

    But the main healing souls for Clerics are too full of duplicate spells and underwhelming effects. Perhaps one option for Sentinel and Purifier might be to merge all the healing spells and such into Sentinel and Warden and turn Purifier into a pure dps soul focused on single target ranged dps based on life damage.
    This is the main problem with Clerics PVE, they do not compare to Mages at all. Mages constantly understate their ability to heal the tank, they do it quite well, as easy as a Cleric without needign to depend on situational skills with long cooldowns. Chloros also AOE heal incredibly good, it's like a constant healing flood or better, it's amazing. And this costs them nothing to cast, they for all intents and purposes have INFINITE mana. They get a 4 minute combat rez which is just an insult on top of that. Also the mechanics of Chloro healing are much better, they don't need to try and cast a 3 second heal for pitiful HPS, a 3 second heal that is interruptable and one where you can take knockback damage making it a 6 second heal.

    To add to all of this Chloros get better group buffs and can achieve 400-500 DPS. A cleric can do nothing but heal, mostly desperately hammering the 3 second heal in some lame attempt to stay competitive with Chloros on single target healing. At this moment the state of Cleric healing is pathetic, it is beyond ridiculous. There are fundamental core problems with this game and class balance, if you ask me it is with Chloros, and because Trion is no willing to nerf/fix Chloros to that degree they are trying everything to make the problem less visible.

    One is dumbing down content so that two healers are not needed. If you have ever healed with a Chloro personally or grouped with one you know what they can do. Trions latest idea to make it where Clerics never get humiliated while healing is to make it where we don't encounter our god class counterpart. What amazes me is Trions reluctance to buff Cleric healing, they nibble at the edges when the core of the problem is huge. They clearly do not want Clerics to be percieved as the ebst healers, yet want Chloros to retain all that that they have.

    This issuse alone is why I am soon to be gone, I leveled to 50 on my Cleric for this? No thanks.
    Last edited by Mogus; 05-09-2011 at 04:43 AM.

  11. #26
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    This is the main problem with Clerics PVE, they do not compare to Mages at all. Mages constantly understate their ability to heal the tank, they do it quite well, as easy as a Cleric without needign to depend on situational skills with long cooldowns. Chloros also AOE heal incredibly good, it's like a constant healing flood or better, it's amazing. And this costs them nothing to cast, they for all intents and purposes have INFINITE mana. They get a 4 minute combat rez which is just an insult on top of that. Also the mechanics of Chloro healing are much better, they don't need to try and cast a 3 second heal for pitiful HPS, a 3 second heal that is interruptable and one where you can take knockback damage making it a 6 second heal.

    To add to all of this Chloros get better group buffs and can achieve 400-500 DPS. A cleric can do nothing but heal, mostly desperately hammering the 3 second heal in some lame attempt to stay competitive with Chloros on single target healing. At this moment the state of Cleric healing is pathetic, it is beyond ridiculous. There are fundamental core problems with this game and class balance, if you ask me it is with Chloros, and because Trion is no willing to nerf/fix Chloros to that degree they are trying everything to make the problem less visible.

    One is dumbing down content so that two healers are not needed. If you have ever healed with a Chloro personally or grouped with one you know what they can do. Trions latest idea to make it where Clerics never get humiliated while healing is to make it where we don't encounter our god class counterpart. What amazes me is Trions reluctance to buff Cleric healing, they nibble at the edges when the core of the problem is huge. They clearly do not want Clerics to be percieved as the ebst healers, yet want Chloros to retain all that that they have.

    This issuse alone is why I am soon to be gone, I leveled to 50 on my Cleric for this? No thanks.
    This.....

    At this point because of my gear level, I can't solo heal the current content without a second healer. If i happen to have a chloro in the group, im reduced to being the offhealer. Why is a Mage a better healing option than a Cleric.

    Flame away with all the "L2P" comments, but with the current UI, healing with the Sent Warden spec is challanging trying to track your Soothing Streams on the tank and flailing away with 3 sec heals is a big fail if your "oh ****" buttons are on cool down. Unfortunately the gear that will solve most of these problems is at the end of these fights. lol

  12. #27
    Rift Disciple
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    I am 100% with the op on the druid/shaman subjects as I play these souls. 31 points pet that has 0 utility and low dps is a joke, or must be taken as 1.
    Massive blow... massive lol.
    Vengeance of the winter storm, 1st april fool, but it's may already.
    Endless Winter must be reworked. 4% mana regen on crit is useless as Ageless Ice is already enough. Make it so it increases auto attack dmg by 5,10%. Not really a superbuff, just a little bit of own dps increase on a lackluster soul. Or make it different in other way, just useful a little or alot because the shaman needs it rightfully.
    Heed the Call 3 points for a useful talent but mages have instant summon for 1 point right? Make it 1 point instant and add cd or 1 point 6 sec lower.
    My biggest question is not listed in the op and here it is: how do you think is Natural Dedication worth 26 points? 5% that is often removed by archon which provides 8 out of 10 seconds uptime. Useless 26 points into the tree talent should not occur. Make it 30% AP for 30 sec 2 min cd. Unique buff, not really overpowered but still nice for again 26 points... Lots of other abilities and talents or the way they scale could be buffed or reworked for a better use but so far my issues are stuck around the listed above. Need thoughts on this by either players or developers, share your pov on the subject: melee cleric dps and utility in raid atmosphere, little bit of buff needed by the looks of public test shard

  13. #28
    Telaran
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    Cleric Main Tank healing needs a buff badly. It cant be that chloromancers scale so much better with gear then Clerics.

    All spellpower bonuses to cleric single target heals should be increased by 50-100%.

    Interdict - please leave this as is. If you want a silence for tanking go spec 18 or better 21 sentinel. Does the trick for those couple pulls where its useful.

    Agree with the Mien of Magic mitigation. Badly needed. Increase cooldown on Changing miens.
    Mien of Magic mitigation - 20 Points Root - Increases all elemental resistances by 300 + 5 for each point spent in the Justicar tree. Increases Endurance by 110%. Increases Threat generation by 300%. Decreases damage done by non-justicar abilities by 40%, healing done by non-justicar abilities by 40%.

    or alternative:
    Magic fortification - 32 Point Root - passive. Mien of Leadership increases elemental resistances by 15% of your Spellpower. Mien of Honor converts 20% of incoming magical damage into raid healing.

    Absolution - this doesn't belong into a tanking tree. Put instead something that uses excess convictions like:
    Your excess convictions generate extra threat while mien of leadership is up.
    Otherwise they heal 10 raid members for 50 (appx third of DoL/scales with spellpower). Mien of Honor increases this effect by 50%.
    Will make Light makes it Right useful.

    Doctrine of Valiance - Put Doctrine of Authority here instead. Maybe move 1 Level higher in tree.
    new 51 point talent - Put something here that releases all convictions. like "releases all convictions, deals weapon + 20 life damage for each conviction released to all enemies within 7m stunning them for 0.5 seconds per conviction and shielding the cleric for 200% of the damage dealt"
    Righteous mandane - needs rework. Make it heal the target for 200% of healing done by salvation.

    Doctrine of Bliss - make it non global cooldown and 6 sec cooldown.
    Doctrine of loyalty - overpowered in raid to be honest. make it heal only 5 targets.
    Commitment - shouldn't be a 5 point talent. make it 3 points.
    Devout Deflection - make it 40% per point.
    Add talent that increases dodge by 10% of spellpower, 2 points.
    Stalwart Citadel - make it 5 points, 10% per point.
    Safe haven - reduce to 3 points, 2% per point.
    Just Defense - make it non global cooldown.
    Reprieve - make it heal for 100% of the cleric's health.
    Precept of refuge - make it consistent with other justicar abilities - should deal magical damage.

  14. #29
    Shadowlander
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    as for the interupt vs silence debate
    why not something along the lines of what the rogues have
    change our aoe interupt to a single target interupt that silences

    in other words it's a 3 second silence that interupts casting, it seems redundant until you realize bosses are often immune to silence but not interupt. however if your casting a spell and you get silenced (pvp the ultimate screw for balance) your not gonna be like "wtf man i can't believe he interupted me when i was silenced"

    doesn't hurt pvp balance, gives us a way to pull in and keeps us with an interupt

  15. #30
    General of Telara
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    Justicar
    Switching of Miens - When switching Miens up to Leadership your effective health is stuck in the low 60% and needs to be healed back up. Solution would be to heal up to the percentage of health you had in the previous Mien when switching if out of combat.
    Isz on other, unreleased MMOs :

    "Enjoy buying another $60 box for forum access to the next thing to complain about"
    About right, ayuh.

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