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Thread: The Shaminquisicar (Melee Chloromancer 2.0!)

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    Default The Shaminquisicar (Melee Chloromancer 2.0!)

    >>> I like to call it the Kamacar <<<
    (Mostly because everyone else is too lazy to call it by the full name)


    But, i've taken my time and revised my old Melee Chlormancer 1.0. Polished it up and made it into something i can be proud of.

    I Present, the Shaminquisicar
    31 Justicar / 21 Shaman / 14 Inquis
    (by the way its official color is blue because i say so!)


    This is essentially as far as i have managed to push this hybrid healing build, from originally a tickling stream of constant reparations, to now an absolute healing beast that can not only play an amazing healer in a t2, but completely match or surpass the efficiency and capabilities of every AOE healer in a raid.


    The Basic Package


    -Mana, Infinite mana actually.

    [Endless Winter]+[Ageless Ice]+[Purpose] (Shiny links!)
    *These are all required, trust me. If you're going to be spamming doctrine of loyalty 24/7 you're going to need all the mana you can get. Unless you want to pop mana potions...druggie.


    - Some pretty Awesome dps

    ...actually not so awesome... about 300-400ish on average. But you know it's dps right? Oh also it doesn't actually scale with Attack power or Spell power, just Spell crit ; and technically if you combined the AP ratios of all your offensive melee Justicar abilities you would still have less AP/SP scaling than a single warden waterjet. *Beginning to tear up* Plus weapon DPS doesn't actually do anything at all and even if you manage to get a legendary weapon you will be hitting about 30-40 more damage per attack tops and you wont really do any more damage ever... but it's still dps right?! Right? *Breaks down into sobbing and runs off*


    -Battlerez
    (Sorry guys, only one)



    -Some Absolutely W-T-F Proc-Rate abilitiy Scaling / Item Synergy

    Uhh let's see here, the condensed version is
    "Sorry guys, it's my fault Sacred Heirloom of the Eth is getting nerfed"
    -Expanded Version

    Yeah, sorry about that. I guess it's totally my fault for figuring out how absolutely broken it is to play a Justicar with proc-effect trinkets. I'll take all blame for pointing out openly on the forums that When i swing my mace, i heal 14 times. (Not like i actually figured that out first or am really at fault, i just made it public in the initial melee Chloromancer thread and lo-and-behold they nerf the darn thing next patch, i blame me)
    2 From Salvation
    2 From Righteous Mandate
    10 From Reperation
    (Details on "How" in the 1.0 Thread)

    Oh and uhh, multiply that by how many targets i'm hitting (up to 5). Which means if i'm hitting one target, the effective proc rates of my "On Heal" trinkets/accessories is multiplied by 14x. If i'm hitting five targets? 70x. If i have a Stormcaller in my group giving me shiny +damage on attack buffs? 105x. If for some silly reason i dropped inquisitor and grabbed Crag Hammer from Druid? Only 140x. I would only heal One-hundred and Forty individual times every time i hit my Even justice button. Only.

    Now some of you are a little doubtful about the truth in those statements. So let me link you some shiny healing meters from my last Greenscale kill.
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...carhealin.jpg/
    (you gotta click it to make it bigger)

    Now i'm not meleeing the boss the entire time, and i don't have AOE targets to hit all the time and often i have to be ranged to stack Convictions. But you can see the massive amount of "Heals" that i put out. Not healing done necessarily but how many times the combat logs "Kama has healed so and so for ##"
    Over the Course of that fight? I Averaged 10 Heals hitting individual targets, per second. Which results in quite a bit of trinkets proccing, 244 Times my Eth Heirloom went off. That's 22 Procs a minute, or roughly one every 3 seconds.




    You do lots of that "Healing" thing

    Healing Done? I Averaged 1151 Healing-Per-Second over 11 minutes. Consistently Peaking at 3-5k HPS during the Aoe phases of the fight. Of course healing done and HPS are really indicators of how much quicker you are at hitting the healing button than everyone else / how bad your other healers are / how much damage the raid is taking (Aka how many of them are standing in fire). So they aren't really important, just fun to look at.


    You can attack from a range now!

    -Between Bolt of Judgment, Sanction Heretic, Bolt of Radiance and Sovereignty. You can effectively build convictions from a range. Most of the time INSTANTLY, which is kinda important.


    Absolutely amazing conviction building

    -Condensed
    Every time you crit, you build 2 convictions instead of one. Since spellpower/attack power is worthless you stack crit, and you start getting some really really nice crit rates.
    50% to be exact, or more in a raiding situation. Plenty of convictions <<<
    -Expanded
    So everything builds 2 Convictions pretty much half the time,
    http://imageshack.us/f/52/kamacarcritrates.jpg/ (you gotta click it to make it bigger)
    Oh and Sanction heretic non-crit builds 1 conviction on the first hit and one conviction on the second. Meaning it now grants 4 convictions when it crits! Also Even Justice literally is incapable of not critting once on any of the 5 targets so it's always two convictions as-well. I use tricks like this to improve how many times i can cast doctrine of loyalty in a row.

    Usually i use Doctrine of Loyalty Three times, drop a sanction heretic on the boss and then cast the doctrine another 3 to 5 times depending on crits if healing is still required. As you can see, careful management of convictions means you're literally never conviction starved with this build.
    You can Offtank Stuff!
    - Not serious stuff, but the little guys that you would usually have to waste a tank on in a boss fight. You can pop on Mein of Leadership and still heal for an absolutely amazing amount while parrying all over the place and picking up the little guys for even more heals off even justice/soul drain spam! That's the cool part, you actually heal the raid more if you pick up five mobs and spam even justice on them than if you weren't tanking them.

    Mobs i've tanked before, in this spec.

    -Random mobs across all four Raid Rifts, things like the mini dragons on the Air Rift stage 6, or the random spider adds on the life rift.
    -The Brownies/Ground Fairies on Duke, GSB 1st boss.
    -The Wolves on Hylas, GSB 4th Boss.
    -The Shades on Dark Foci, ROS Mini-boss.

    Small stuff sure, but not having to waste a tank on them while retaining an AOE healer? That's a big bonus.


    But where does that put you on the charts?

    At the Top!
    http://imageshack.us/f/803/kamacaroverallgreenscal.jpg/



    Conclusion

    -Melee Build that does about the same damage as a chloromancer, might not be that great at single-target healing but is absolutely amazing at AOE healing. Works off melee and doesn't use cast-time heals not to mention it doesn't have even the slightest mana issues.

    Viable in a variety of situations and an absolutely unique way to heal your raid/group

    Fun!
    (I mean that's honestly it. If i didn't cover it here i definitely covered it in the first post, so you should poke that one if you're still lost.)



    TL;DR: Vero is about to respond with something condescending while heralding the senticar as the best thing since buttered toast while simultaneously proving he never actually read anything i wrote, including this.. For people who wants a TLDR, I'm a melee chloromancer, it's in the title.
    Kama, Cleric of Briarcliff

    Melee Chloromancer 2.0 <Shaman Justicar>

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    Telaran Stage's Avatar
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    That's it, I just can't follow this forum any more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stage View Post
    That's it, I just can't follow this forum any more.
    This will be the last bennifer thread i shall read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    This will be the last bennifer thread i shall read.
    Uh oh, did i go overboard with the pretty colors?
    -It's too bad i can't EDIT THEM AFTER I POST IT AND REALIZE IT LOOKS BAD. Post preview doesn't show it the same as it ends up ):
    *Cough Trion*

    It was my attempt not to walloftext, instead wallofcolors.
    Last edited by Kama Toki; 05-06-2011 at 05:47 AM.
    Kama, Cleric of Briarcliff

    Melee Chloromancer 2.0 <Shaman Justicar>

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    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    People, please stop posting these builds. Everything has already been done before. We all know, anything + justicar = group heals. The bigger the damage (AoE, etc...) the more healing you generate.

    Justicar + any jacked up spec can be a melee chloromancer at the moment with SHoE.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

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    I was looking at a decent off-heal spec for my cleric, to be able to fill one more role, and this looks promising.

    However, since I never played Melee with my Cleric before, I wonder how different the gearing is from an Inq/Caba DPS spec. Can you please provide some guideline for the gearing, like an order of importance for the stats?

    And a generic rotation would be great as well :P!

    Cheers!
    Last edited by elhu; 05-06-2011 at 06:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidbs View Post
    People, please stop posting these builds. Everything has already been done before. We all know, anything + justicar = group heals. The bigger the damage (AoE, etc...) the more healing you generate.

    Justicar + any jacked up spec can be a melee chloromancer at the moment with SHoE.
    Yeah but any jacked up spec doesn't top the charts and potentially provide more healing than senticar... does it?

    My point is it's potentially better, i use it and it works. Not "it's a new unique spec i just came up with" because its not, i bet plenty of people have used this in beta and similar specs everywhere. Just providing parses on greenscale of the validation of this build.

    Quote Originally Posted by elhu View Post
    I was looking at a decent off-heal spec for my cleric, to be able to fill one more role, and this looks promising.

    However, since I never played Melee with my Cleric before, I wonder how different the gearing is from an Inq/Caba DPS spec. Can you please provide some guideline for the gearing, like an order of importance for the stats?

    And a generic rotation would be great as well :P!

    Cheers!
    Crit/Int comes first, that's about it. Everything else second.

    As for rotations there's some listed on the 1.0 version of the thread, along with macros.

    For Aoe, yeah you can pretty much pull as much as you want and just melee it down while healing an amazing amount.
    Last edited by Kama Toki; 05-06-2011 at 06:03 AM.
    Kama, Cleric of Briarcliff

    Melee Chloromancer 2.0 <Shaman Justicar>

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    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kama Toki View Post
    Yeah but any jacked up spec doesn't top the charts and potentially provide more healing than senticar... does it?
    Honestly, with SHoE it really doesn't matter what your spec is. As long as you're proccing AoE heals to proc the trinket, you can be a healing god as a Justicar. You still have room to improve your dps with your spec as well if you are truly going for max dps/heals.

    I know I'm busting your balls a bit (it's not personal) but honestly these threads have been overdone. There are lots of useable variations of Justicar builds as offhealers, each with their own unique tools that they can bring to a group (battle rezzes, cleanses, strong AoE damage, etc..). We just don't need a new thread for every shifted point or soul combination.
    Last edited by kidbs; 05-06-2011 at 06:11 AM.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidbs View Post
    Honestly, with SHoE it really doesn't matter what your spec is. As long as you're proccing AoE heals to proc the trinket, you can be a healing god as a Justicar. You still have room to improve your dps with your spec as well if you are truly going for max dps/heals.

    I know I'm busting your balls a bit (it's not personal) but honestly these threads have been overdone. There are lots of useable variations of Justicar builds as offhealers, each with their own unique tools that they can bring to a group (battle rezzes, cleanses, strong AoE damage, etc..). We just don't need a new thread for every shifted point or soul combination.
    This might sound stupid, but could someone explain to me what this SHoE thing is XD?

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    Take 3 points out of Stormborn and put 2 into Thick Skinned and 1 into Shield of Faith

    You lose 30% of Jolt and Lightning Hammer damage

    You gain another 5% damage mitigation and a melee range spell interrupt. That should significantly increase your tanking ability.

    Any idea how viable this is with the nerfed SHoE?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kama Toki View Post
    Yeah but any jacked up spec doesn't top the charts and potentially provide more healing than senticar... does it?

    My point is it's potentially better, i use it and it works. Not "it's a new unique spec i just came up with" because its not, i bet plenty of people have used this in beta and similar specs everywhere. Just providing parses on greenscale of the validation of this build.
    Even better, you have posted comprehensive information with actual numbers, logic trains and reasoning, explanations for *EVERYTHING* and explained both high points and actual weaknesses to the concept.
    This is easily the single best "my build: check it out" thread I have seen since Rift was released. Period.
    Anyone complaining about this thread does not understand just how truly pointless your effort makes every other build-focused thread on this forum really seem, and I greatly appreciate the effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stage View Post
    That's it, I just can't follow this forum any more.
    Because you have tried so hard to "follow" this forum for an -ENTIRE- month?
    Impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by kidbs View Post
    We just don't need a new thread for every shifted point or soul combination.
    This is not just another random thread with some idiot saying "this build rocks! discuss!"
    Instead, the OP posted hard facts, explained all the reasoning behind the build, and shares it all freely so anyone else can see how and why he did things and adapt/adopt any pieces and parts any way they choose.
    If anything, the forums need *MORE* threads like this one and less of the crappy threads with no facts, no reasoning, no numbers and alot of unquantifiable statements that are frequently totally baseless and inaccurate.


    About the build itself:
    It's less DPS than most Chloros *SHOULD* be getting at that point in their career as a healer, but potentially has *MORE* healing than any Chloro could possibly be getting at that point. It's not a build I'd ask any Cleric to adapt and use their selves, but it is a build I'd be thrilled to have with me pretty much anywhere I went.
    I want to see how this works/can be adjusted after the Heirloom is "nerfed". I suspect it will still be a very strong contender for top HPS, but we will have to wait and see.
    Players that ask to raid and then don't pay attention to the raid and cause wipes confuse me. Why bother? Players that join Warfronts and don't bother trying to win so they can "just have fun" running amuck randomly confuse me even more. When one joins a team, their lack of effort hurts all of those on that team. Why waste all those people's time? Don't they have better things to do than let someone selfishly run about and cost them time from their lives?
    "But it's only a game. I am having fun!"
    *facepalm*

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    Telaran
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    Been running with something similar for a month or two now, gotten 5/5 greenscale and 2/5 RoS down albeit some of the bosses with a (imo) better variation of "senticar", here's how i think you can improve your build:

    Lose dauntless courage from shaman, the +3% only affects physical damage which means none of the justicar skills get anything. I've personally tested this on dummies, you can check if you like. Put the three points in thick skinned for extra survivability.

    Lose endless winter. I can tell you that for sure you can make purpose and ageless ice make you have infinite mana (no pots needed). If you run out of mana, take it as a challenge to improve your game. Stacking int (as you mentioned) helps. Put those two points into stormborn.

    Lose one point from devout deflection. I'm currently at 23% parry with my 2-hander with 2 points in it and 20% is the cap. Put it into shield of faith for added survivability.

    Lose the points from castigation, move 2 points into contempt for vex healing and one point into justicar for the aoe interrupt. I'd recommend the extra armor. For me, the healing from vex isn't very important but I happen to use this build when I solo so it's useful there. Also, if the three ranged conviction replenishing skills aren't good enough as they are, you should really look into getting sentinel for the extra sp, healing and 'protect the flock'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuplis View Post
    Been running with something similar for a month or two now, gotten 5/5 greenscale and 2/5 RoS down albeit some of the bosses with a (imo) better variation of "senticar", here's how i think you can improve your build:

    Lose dauntless courage from shaman, the +3% only affects physical damage which means none of the justicar skills get anything. I've personally tested this on dummies, you can check if you like. Put the three points in thick skinned for extra survivability.

    Lose endless winter. I can tell you that for sure you can make purpose and ageless ice make you have infinite mana (no pots needed). If you run out of mana, take it as a challenge to improve your game. Stacking int (as you mentioned) helps. Put those two points into stormborn.

    Lose one point from devout deflection. I'm currently at 23% parry with my 2-hander with 2 points in it and 20% is the cap. Put it into shield of faith for added survivability.

    Lose the points from castigation, move 2 points into contempt for vex healing and one point into justicar for the aoe interrupt. I'd recommend the extra armor. For me, the healing from vex isn't very important but I happen to use this build when I solo so it's useful there. Also, if the three ranged conviction replenishing skills aren't good enough as they are, you should really look into getting sentinel for the extra sp, healing and 'protect the flock'.
    #1
    Min-Maxing, i don't really think either of the talents are much worth it, but sure 3% reduced damage is 3% additional health.

    #2, I use endless winter and i go oom without it. No.

    #3, Vain-hope that parry cap will one day be more than 20%, makes me feel better about myself and gives bragging rights that i have 4x more parry than the tank. Truthfully they don't need to be there.

    #4 Eww why would you ever use vex? I need convictions not self-heals. Not to mention bolt of judgment gives me convictions, and castigation gives me convictions .3 seconds faster! Dropping one point out of inquis for Justi means no more soul drain. Soul drain > Interrupt.
    Kama, Cleric of Briarcliff

    Melee Chloromancer 2.0 <Shaman Justicar>

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    Rift Chaser Khierra's Avatar
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    I must ask you

    How does the ranged macro look like? Have you weaved that into the normal single target macro?

    Please enlighten me

    Much appreciated and thanks for the ideas!

    /K

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khierra View Post
    I must ask you

    How does the ranged macro look like? Have you weaved that into the normal single target macro?

    Please enlighten me

    Much appreciated and thanks for the ideas!

    /K

    This is it currently, an all in one conviction building macro.
    #show Strike of Judgment
    cast Jolt
    cast Fated Blow
    cast Glory of the Chosen
    cast Bolt of Radiance
    cast Sovereignty
    cast Strike of judgment
    cast Sanction Heretic
    cast Bolt of Judgment
    cast Vex
    Casts bolt of judgment if i'm out of range/cooldowns, and vex if i'm out of range/cooldowns and moving.
    Kama, Cleric of Briarcliff

    Melee Chloromancer 2.0 <Shaman Justicar>

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