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Thread: Justicar tanking guide - Version 2

  1. #31
    Prophet of Telara Radak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuvuzela View Post
    Radak, once again great write up. After reading your thread and looking at the number of builds you have given us, I can almost say I do everything you have written. But still I lose AOE threat( not all the time but quite often and more so in the harder T2 runs) my gear is mostly T1 and a number of T2 items too. The worst item I have is my blue mace, its 20.7 dps. So what Iím trying to say is/ask, is this the reason Iím having an issue with AOE threat does your main weapon make that much difference and if so, what should I be using please? I know the Last boss in LH drops a Cleric Mace plus there is a Epic Mace a Weaponsmith can make, itís the one which has block, strength and Endurance on plus its puts a shield around you.

    Iím about to ding a 50 warrior because Iím just had enough with the AOR threat.

    P.S
    What is your main build you use from the oneís you have given us please?

    Cheers
    Vuvu
    Well first looking at your comment you say you are looking at the epic mace from weaponsmiths. This is one of the worst things you can do. Because it's a warrior/rogue mace as it has no spellpower.
    All weapons you want to use must have spellpower so I don't know if your current one has it but that could be a reason.
    If not the 20.7 dps isn't that big of a difference with the 23.3 dps I have on my epic mace. So that should not be the problem. (If you want a really good mace try running expert DD which drop 2 maces one with spellpower, block and focus and the other with only spellpower and focus)
    One of the things that can help if your using a 51 builds is using DoA the first time you take damage. This will heal you for 600-700 (non-crit) and will generate a pretty decent amount of aoe threat. Another thing might be a problem with the dps. There are a lot of trigger happy dps that will instantly start nuking the moment you run in. The result is that sometimes they will hit the targets before you do. Simple tell your dps to wait 2-3sec and a large problem should be solved.
    Also I prefer raid frames so it's easy to see if someone grabs aggro. And because I don't use my aoe taunt at the start I can pop it the moment someones frame becomes red and get it back before it runs away.

    And if that does not solve it you can try one of the builds with the shaman charge and 360 cleave and see how that works or the inquisitor builds that I will soon add.

    As for the main builds I myself you 2 depending on the fight and group setup. The first is the Basic with Inquisitor and the other is the deep purifier build (under the 38 builds). I do have a 3rd tank build which is the purge one that I use for certain bosses.

  2. #32
    Soulwalker Astarian's Avatar
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    Great guide and this should be stickied. What essences do you recommend for greater and lesser?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radak View Post
    Well first looking at your comment you say you are looking at the epic mace from weaponsmiths. This is one of the worst things you can do. Because it's a warrior/rogue mace as it has no spellpower.
    Thanks for the reply.

    That mace used to be used for Roguesí and Warriorsí only they have now added Cleric! thatís why I thought that mace would be good for us, why would Trion add Cleric to it? Higher dps higher threat??

    My current Mace as I said is the 20.7 one and it does have spell power etc. I will have to run DD with guild and see if I can get the mace which drops!

    Well if itís not the mace, I guess I must be doing something wrong then. I must be just missing something on my rotation's.

    I will try your 51 build with Inquisitor and also look forward to your new Inquisitor build too.

    I guess i just need to keep working at it

    Thanks again!

  4. #34
    Soulwalker
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    I've had success with the 46/10/10 build with Cab as the 3rd soul.
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...VeezRo.Vcb.Vzm

    I've never raided, but from a 5man perspective the most challenging part of our job (assuming you are adequately geared) is trash aggro management on the pull. I have yet to come across a pull where a Shadow's Touch + 3X Tyranny will not permanently lock the mobs on you while you get into position and into your rotation. The only piece of advice is to target the ranged for ST, then the melee for the Tyrannies as you run in or the AoE will not hit everything as the mobs separate. If there are more than 7 mobs you may need to do some tabbing to make sure you hit them all with your Tyrannies.

    I like the above build because if you are going 7 points into Sham anyways, the 10 point Bear is too good to pass up for 3 additional points plus the extra crit. And because in Cab, Tyranny is EZ mode on pulls, plus extra spell power, plus some extra magic mitigation. Just make sure, near the end of each pack, you bank your Lurking Decays. In my opinion there are too many wasted points in Justicar to justify going 51 considering the cost/benefit of what else is out there. Again this is from a 5man perspective.

  5. #35
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    I know you have mentioned multiple times that overhealing does not produce much threat but I find this hard to believe. I do lose aggro once in a while but a majority of pulls I do not (only time I lose it is when someone other than me has initial pull aggro) and all I do most times is pull with single taunt then spam doctrine of loyality until they are in camp and it generally stays on me for the duration of the fight. However, I am looking for ways to improve so your post was a good read.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popkin View Post
    I've had success with the 46/10/10 build with Cab as the 3rd soul.
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...VeezRo.Vcb.Vzm
    I have now read a number of posts about adding Cab as your 3rd soul. Interesting indeed! If it holds mobs then thatís a winner in my book. Going to try this over the weekend and see if it makes a difference on AOE threat.

    One questions, when you are casting Lurking decay do you have stay still or can you do this while running?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuvuzela View Post
    I have now read a number of posts about adding Cab as your 3rd soul. Interesting indeed! If it holds mobs then thatís a winner in my book. Going to try this over the weekend and see if it makes a difference on AOE threat.

    One questions, when you are casting Lurking decay do you have stay still or can you do this while running?
    You have to stay still. On the first pull in a dungeon, you can use your power-sigil to give you one tyranny without having to charge it up first. Cabalist in 5man builds is pure winsauce. You get an AoE targetable/spammable nuke, 5% more spell power to help with everything, 5% more spell damage to help with your AoE nuke, as well as damage on Bolt of Radiance and Sovereignty, you get +40 to all (except Life and Death >.<) resists. It's just awesome for only 10 (or 11) points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    I know you have mentioned multiple times that overhealing does not produce much threat but I find this hard to believe. I do lose aggro once in a while but a majority of pulls I do not (only time I lose it is when someone other than me has initial pull aggro) and all I do most times is pull with single taunt then spam doctrine of loyality until they are in camp and it generally stays on me for the duration of the fight. However, I am looking for ways to improve so your post was a good read.
    100% confirm. Overhealing does not generate agro. You get a certain amount of agro for being the first person on the hate list, then you would get some agro for throwing that single taunt (not to mention 3 seconds of force-targeting) and by that stage you're hitting it in melee. Also, Bolt of Radiance is our highest damage ability anyway, as well as being 3 seconds force-target. You could skip those DoLs and save yourself alot of mana and convictions.
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  8. #38
    Shield of Telara Sixpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    5pts Druid is a bad choice, because it doesn't stack with MoL. You would need to have 1000 BASE endurance (i.e before Mein of Leadership) before it would equal the hitpoint gain of 6pts Inquisitor for the blue armor. Most people don't have that much END.
    Speaking of that, with 1.2 they change Armor of Trechery for Inq to be an Armor and Endurance buff... has anyone been on the PTR to see if the Armor value is the same as AoT is now and if the Endurance buff will be the same as Armor of Devotion is now?

  9. #39
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    I might as well post here, since I wanted to make a new thread.

    First of all, I want to say Kudos to Radak and everyone for all the information and threads. It's been of great help.

    In fact, so useful that I rolled a Cleric due to their versatility ;). Justicar tanking really interests me.

    Now, I am currently level 21, and want to Tank IT (DSM soon, too). I know, they're by no means hard, but I just wanted to make sure I get on the "right path" on which build to use in Dungeons and perhaps Rifts.

    - First thing I am wondering, is if I should go with a 51 Justicar spec or not. I am more leaning towards a 51 build, but is that more aimed toward Raids and such?

    - Also, in the Shaman tree, I am aware that 7 points are a must due to the Damage Reduce and the added healing received. Do you guys think it would be best to push the build up to 10 points for Courage of the Bear and perhaps even Glory of the Chosen, Jolt and Glacial Shield? (Maybe in T1's and T2 it is useless, but what about normal dungeons?).

    - Lastly, the 3rd soul. Inquisitor seems good enough, and is kind of a no-brainer. In the same time, Cabalist offers very interesting features that would also be of great help. Resists, AoE Aggro through spells (sweet Tyranny) and Spell Power.

    Stat priorities should be the same as in the guide from Radak I suppose. I got a bunch of runes that I can use on this Cleric alt.

    Here's the build I'll probably use at 21 : http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00nr_.Mcb.ihRs0c

    I think the main priority for the build at my level is to have Even Justice hit 5 Targets. I'm aware that -most- dungeon pulls are about 3 mobs, but oh well. For the allocations, criticism is welcome !

    That's about all of my questions as a soon-to-be Justicar! I'll concentrate on practising my "tanking" in dungeons as much as I can.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ettu View Post
    I'd be interested in getting opinions on the build below:-

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...Vejzoo.VtA0z0z

    The idea is that this would be a T1/T2 build. Maybe only for trash, and then switch to a deeper Justicar build on bosses, where AoE threat is not needed.

    The idea would be to pop Sigil of Power on yourself prior to the pull, or if Sigil is on cooldown then make sure you use Decay at the end of the previous pull to get 1 stack of 'Lurking Decay' on yourself.

    Pull with 'Shadows Touch' then 'Tyranny' then 'Curse of Solitude' then 'Maelstrom' the 'Engulfing Shadows'. The final 4 are instant abilities so within 4 GCD's you have got threat on up to 7 enemies, you've pulled 3 of them towards you (target a caster/archer if there is one in the group) you've put a curse one of them which causes the enemies to hurt one another when they use an ability, and put an aura around you that damages nearby enemies.

    From going this deep into Cab you also gain an ability to grant immunuity against the next Silence/Interupt.

    What I'd be giving up for these abilities is 1% mana returned each time you block %5 damage on melee attack abilities, a 2 minute cooldown which increases all incoming heals by 50% for 10 seconds and 6% armour (I normally run a 44 pt Justicar build)

    This build would not be a raid boss build due to the mitigation you're giving up and because I assume the AoE threat wouldn't be useful on the majority of raid bosses due to having more than 1 tank available for offtanking adds, but for 5 man content it seems like this could be very viable.
    didn't found an appealing build for me in the forum at the time I decided to tank with my cleric, so I came up with this same spec.
    maelstrom is good in case of multiple caster, cabalist spells are nice for 6+packs, dark passage as a defensive cd, no cd on sigil of binding so you can spam tyranny.

  11. #41
    Prophet of Telara Radak's Avatar
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    And another update has happend with again more builds added. However I get a feeling I am running into a problem. It seems my 4 posts I reserved might not be enough as I already had to split it up into 3 posts because of the 15000 character limit on posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuvuzela View Post
    I will try your 51 build with Inquisitor and also look forward to your new Inquisitor build too.

    I guess i just need to keep working at it

    Thanks again!
    It seems I made a mistake I didn't mean Inquisitor but Cabalist (near identical to the one Ettu posted and it has now been added to the guide). This is a honest mistake because I hardly use those souls for more then 6 points and apparently swapped the talents around in my brain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzius View Post
    I might as well post here, since I wanted to make a new thread.

    First of all, I want to say Kudos to Radak and everyone for all the information and threads. It's been of great help.

    In fact, so useful that I rolled a Cleric due to their versatility ;). Justicar tanking really interests me.

    Now, I am currently level 21, and want to Tank IT (DSM soon, too). I know, they're by no means hard, but I just wanted to make sure I get on the "right path" on which build to use in Dungeons and perhaps Rifts.

    - First thing I am wondering, is if I should go with a 51 Justicar spec or not. I am more leaning towards a 51 build, but is that more aimed toward Raids and such?

    - Also, in the Shaman tree, I am aware that 7 points are a must due to the Damage Reduce and the added healing received. Do you guys think it would be best to push the build up to 10 points for Courage of the Bear and perhaps even Glory of the Chosen, Jolt and Glacial Shield? (Maybe in T1's and T2 it is useless, but what about normal dungeons?).

    - Lastly, the 3rd soul. Inquisitor seems good enough, and is kind of a no-brainer. In the same time, Cabalist offers very interesting features that would also be of great help. Resists, AoE Aggro through spells (sweet Tyranny) and Spell Power.

    Stat priorities should be the same as in the guide from Radak I suppose. I got a bunch of runes that I can use on this Cleric alt.

    Here's the build I'll probably use at 21 : http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00nr_.Mcb.ihRs0c

    I think the main priority for the build at my level is to have Even Justice hit 5 Targets. I'm aware that -most- dungeon pulls are about 3 mobs, but oh well. For the allocations, criticism is welcome !

    That's about all of my questions as a soon-to-be Justicar! I'll concentrate on practising my "tanking" in dungeons as much as I can.
    That spec looks about perfect for your lvl. I would advice putting your next couple of points into the parry talent and Shield of Faith to boost your survivability. (Or commitment if you notice mana problems)
    As for stats at lower levels there is a small change in priority because you won't be parry capped. This makes Endurance and Wisdom the best stats you can get and you want to avoid strength and dex in this case (block is not available on cleric gear at that level if I remember correctly but if it is use it).
    As for the build you want to aim for it really doesn't matter all those builds are viable both for experts and raids though some offer certain advantages and disadvantages, so just choose one you like.

  12. #42
    Plane Walker Lifeline's Avatar
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    Maybe you could add something like this to your unconventional builds: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...0x0qz.VhRs0xcz

    The points are pretty versatile, and i've also used just 2pts in sent for Life's Vengeance giving me another instant cast light spell. I keep my shield/mace on macro for equip change in combat in case something closes on me. I've used this build a lot in raid rifts as the dps/hps and threat is pretty fantastic. Although i'll be honest the use is pretty limited atm.

    I'd love to see other people give it a try though, and give feedback on it.

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  13. #43
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    One question for cleric tanks. Anyone found a way to reliabily hold aggro on inc if you have HoTs rolling on you and you have to corner pull? Obviously, click off the HoTs works but im curious if there is any way to do it other than that.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    One question for cleric tanks. Anyone found a way to reliabily hold aggro on inc if you have HoTs rolling on you and you have to corner pull? Obviously, click off the HoTs works but im curious if there is any way to do it other than that.
    Not really, aggro seems very glitchy on pulls in general. Warriors with pets doing nothing pulling initial aggro, people in general doing absolutely nothing getting initial aggro. And ofc healing or rather overhealing at that point with DoL's does nothing, so its just a matter of chasing every mob down with the tools you have until you have them properly bunched up.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    One question for cleric tanks. Anyone found a way to reliabily hold aggro on inc if you have HoTs rolling on you and you have to corner pull? Obviously, click off the HoTs works but im curious if there is any way to do it other than that.
    clicking off hots is bad, especially if your healer is a warden and you get rid of their stack of SS. just have your healer stand further back around the corner, and spam even justice once you get around the corner so you hit every mob that tries to run past you toward your healer.

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