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Thread: Justicar tanking guide - Version 2

  1. #151
    Prophet of Telara Radak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaadeem View Post
    Awesome guide. What would be the spec to use at lvl 31? I went with the justicar/shaman/purifier but not sure if I should change it and where should I put the points first?

    Thanks
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10nrG.mcd.Vuks0eI0oo
    That is pretty much the most basic spec you can make around your lvl. After that start getting those last points in Justicar and that choose a build that you like and starting working towards that. At lvl 31 there aren't that many chooses you can make unfortunately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Demise View Post
    Your guild actually lets you tank ros/gs? Lol theres no point, warriors/rogues take so much less damage not to mention threat is a problem(22 shaman build is better single target threat than that btw).
    Yes my guild lets me tank and most healers prefer healing me over our warior/rogue counterpart.
    I main tank Duke, Infiltrator, Oracle (melee wolf and oracle), Warmaster and Gaurath.
    I don't MT Hylas as I tank duke, oracle and the wolfs there. (this allows me to switch to mien of Honor to have more aoe healing). And I don't MT greenscale as I have no Life resistance set. (and we aren't deeper into RoS yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nucleon View Post
    1. Is there any relation between the builds you've mentioned and your current level of gear? In example, the deep puri build, is that really only viable once you have a pretty decent gear margin because of the sacrifices made in Justi? When gear is poor, is a "standard" spec more neccessary (deep sham)?

    2. Is AE threat *really* that big of a deal... it seems it only matters at the pull, and even though it's only 10 points in cab to get it, it's basically spending 10 points for a pull spell which seems silly to me when reducing incoming DPS/increasing heal + dps outupt matters the other 99% of the time.

    3. Are you just being nice and unwilling to criticize some of these specs are or all most of them really viable? I guess coming from a WoW perspective the idea that you can have more than 2 viable specs is mindblowing.
    1. Nearly every build is viable at all gear lvles. And the Purifier build might actually be better at lower gear lvles as it gives you more "Oh ****" buttons to help with those spikes you can get. And you can just pick what you like the deeper justicar build will normally give slightly better surviviability but in most T1's and T2's that is hardly every a problem so just make a choice.

    2. I myself don't have problems with AoE threat but it is a topic that I see a lot on these forums. The problem is mostly dps that starts to soon and you can compensate by that by using a build with a little higher AoE threat. Or you just /slap your dps and have them learn to wait 3 sec before popping every cd they have.

    3. No I am not trying to be nice. The thing is most of our survivability and threat comes from 38Just and 7 Shaman. As a result you have a lot of point to play around with. You can boost your survivability by going deeper into Justicar but the difference isn't as big as you expect making it a option instead of mandatory. The only builds that you have to be careful with when using are the unconventional builds as they often give up more survivability then the 38just. (And I myself also played WoW so I know that it feels weird to have so many options)

    Quote Originally Posted by nazred View Post
    This is just a little idea i've had (im sorry if someone else has thought about this but i just came up with it this morning)

    we have the Block skill using conviction why not have a magic resistance same idea?

    convert convictions into resistances but them limit our convictions i.e.

    4 convictions are max.

    build up 4 convictions

    Transfer 1 into resistance = 20 for each resistance
    Transfer 2 into resistance = 40 for each resistance
    Transfer 3 into resistance = 60 for each resistance
    Transfer 4 into resistance = 80 for each resistance

    at each stage then it will reduce the amount of convictions you can build up.

    i.e. at 4 transfers into magic resistance i wouldnt be able to generate healing spell or block spell
    untill i reduced my resistance.

    so ideally 2 in resistances would be idea for normal tanking T2 / trash etc,
    allow 40 magic resistance
    1 conviction spare for block
    1 for big heal

    for big boss fights last boss in GSB or even death blast etc from DM ( i know been nerf'ed badly)
    Stack 3 tranfers into resistances (+60 to all)
    would allow one more for blocking or healing

    or if really alot of magic and you dont need to block at all
    you could stack up to 4 resistances (+80 to all)
    and you couldnt use Block.

    Please give me your feed back
    The problem is that even 80Magic resitance isn't that much. I myself have a death resistance set and I got 204 death resistance self buffed with a Vial. And even then I take more damage then a rogue or warrior. So that effect would have to give significantly more then 80 at max.
    Normally you should have 40resistance from the raid buff and 30 resistance from the guild perk. That's 70 total or a 10.4% magic damage reduction. Adding the 80 resistance you suggested makes it a total of 150 which is still only a 20.0% magic damage reduction. This still makes us for from equal to warriors and rogues. (Note resistance has a DR which you can find in the guide aswell)

    (Small note we have 18% damage reduction bass but it stacks multiplicative with reduction from resistance not additive. So 70 vs 150 resistance is actually 26.5% reduction vs 34.4% reduction
    ps remember when comparing to rogues/wariors that they also have the 70 resistance from buffs)

    Some things concerning our magic mitigation that have to be taken into consideration:
    It has to be high in the tree to avoid healers picking it up in pvp which would cause problems there.
    It would be nice if it played around with your conviction. (I myself don't like the having a lower max amount of convictions but a longer duration or % based on convictions consumed can work)
    A percentage reduction is better then resistance as it will suffer from diminishing returns.
    A flat value is boring so no root ability with something like 1% reduction per point above 36 etc.
    It is possible to combine with DoV but remember that healing pvp specs should not be able to use it. (DoV isn't that deep into the tree so it would have to be altered by a talent or root ability)
    Allowing the ability to block magic can cause scaling problems later in the game.

    A possible example (not saying it's the best but it would be possible)
    36 point root ability
    Precept of Praecantatio Rank 4
    128 Mana Melee Range
    15 seconds
    Requires a Melee Weapon
    ----------------------------------------------
    A magical blow with your magic dealing Weapon
    damage plus 70 to 72 Life damage, in addition
    it will consumes up to 3 Conviction Imbuing your
    Armor to absorbing 7% of incoming Magic
    damage per conviction consumed for 20seconds.
    ----------------------------------------------
    Requires: 36 Points spent in Justicar
    Requires: Level 50
    This would be a 36 point root ability this would be the rank 4 version of it that you get at lvl 50. Lower ranks would deal less damage but same absorption. (Rank 1 lvl 36, Rank 2 lvl 41 and Rank 3 lvl 46)

    And with absorbing I mean it will actually do 7% less damage and heal you for that amount at the same time. With 3 convictions this means 21% less damage and being healed for 100% of the absorbed amount. (This heal should be unaffected by healing reduction effect to avoid problems where this exists like Lord Greenscale. If this would be possible to program into the game). Also there may be no lag between the incoming damage and the heal or it might still kill you while you should have survived it (less then 0.25sec between damage and heal to get the heal before a next possible tick of damage). If it's not possible to program that then let it say deflect and increases the number. (deflect not reflect).

    PS: the reason I choose Absorb instead of simple Deflect or Reduce (have the same effect ingame but deflect sounds nicer) is that this way the healing it does keeps in line with the healing we have going on in the tree.
    Last edited by Radak; 05-24-2011 at 07:39 AM.
    Cleric tanking: Justicar guide | Justicar spreadsheet and item list
    Defence is as much a part of war as offense, the shield as important a tool as the sword.

  2. #152
    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radak View Post
    Runes
    ...
    Weapon:
    Blazing Strength Rune: +10 strength
    Blazing Wisdom Rune: +10 Wisdom (use if not parry capped)
    Incandescent Savvy Runeshard: +13 Focus (use if not focus capped)
    Blazing Savvy Runeshard: +9 Focus (cheaper alternative)

    Wand:
    Blazing Strength Rune: +10 strength
    Blazing Wisdom Rune: +10 Wisdom (use if not parry capped)
    Incandescent Savvy Runeshard: +13 Focus (use if not focus capped)
    Blazing Savvy Runeshard: +9 Focus (cheaper alternative)
    Blazing Recondite Rune: +9 spell power

    Is better than +10 Wisdom in both these slots if you are not Parry capped

  3. #153
    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    nobody wants me to tank anymore and my guild mates asked me to remove my tank spec.

    I ran a pug and failed as a tank and blamed the pug... ran with guild lastnight and they just said dont do it anymore.
    too many problems holding aggro and not enough mitigation for our t2 runs.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    nobody wants me to tank anymore and my guild mates asked me to remove my tank spec.

    I ran a pug and failed as a tank and blamed the pug... ran with guild lastnight and they just said dont do it anymore.
    too many problems holding aggro and not enough mitigation for our t2 runs.
    So... you suck? I don't understand the point of your post and why you needed to post it at all, have you read the guide?

  5. #155
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    too many problems holding aggro and not enough mitigation for our t2 runs.
    That's one of two things, the DPS being ******s and not waiting until you have more than 1 nanosecond of threat in AOE situations, and you cannot be gearing correctly. I am my Guild's MT for T2's and every healer we have prefers me over the Warrior and Rogue(s). We have just fine mitigation for T2's and beyond (except the aforementioned Magic mitigation but that can be dealt with). If your Guild is asking you to remove your tank spec the problem isn't that the Cleric Calling cannot tank, it's something else.

  6. #156
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    I've got crappy gear. I have one good ring I got for tanking, and two good essences. I've got 100 toughness from 2 pieces of crafted gear, 1 cheap epic from plaques, and 1 rogue blue I got. I've got a horrible green shield (I keep running instances with cleric shield drop potential, but have never seen one), and the rest is a mix of blues and greens.

    Yet, I tanked the entirety of xDSM and xCC fine. My guildmates I was with were way overgeared compared to me, decked out in T2 epics or higher. So some of the trash fights were tough. Not because I couldn't get aggro, but because for some I'm just so badly geared I couldn't mitigate enough to survive the beginning.

    We still work. T2s are so easy, even if you're poorly geared, that you should be able to run them. If all your teammates are horrible, well, that's not your fault as a tank.

    Not saying we're perfect. I can definitely see why we'd be horrible for raids. We need ways to effectively generate threat without relying on AOE healing for all our good threat, and we need ways to sufficiently mitigate magic. But overall, we're entirely sufficient tanks for 95% of the game.

  7. #157
    Prophet of Telara Radak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CorayThan View Post
    I've got crappy gear. I have one good ring I got for tanking, and two good essences. I've got 100 toughness from 2 pieces of crafted gear, 1 cheap epic from plaques, and 1 rogue blue I got. I've got a horrible green shield (I keep running instances with cleric shield drop potential, but have never seen one), and the rest is a mix of blues and greens.

    Yet, I tanked the entirety of xDSM and xCC fine. My guildmates I was with were way overgeared compared to me, decked out in T2 epics or higher. So some of the trash fights were tough. Not because I couldn't get aggro, but because for some I'm just so badly geared I couldn't mitigate enough to survive the beginning.

    We still work. T2s are so easy, even if you're poorly geared, that you should be able to run them. If all your teammates are horrible, well, that's not your fault as a tank.

    Not saying we're perfect. I can definitely see why we'd be horrible for raids. We need ways to effectively generate threat without relying on AOE healing for all our good threat, and we need ways to sufficiently mitigate magic. But overall, we're entirely sufficient tanks for 95% of the game.
    As you say you still got a green shield. Try looking for someone with the recepi to make the [Orichalcum Buckler]. It's a really good shield when just lvl 50 and with a good augment it's better then any possible T1 shield.
    Cleric tanking: Justicar guide | Justicar spreadsheet and item list
    Defence is as much a part of war as offense, the shield as important a tool as the sword.

  8. #158
    Telaran
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    I MT everything for my guild.
    Stats are self buffed.
    HP 12626
    Armor 11589
    Parry 1167
    Block 627
    Hiit/Focus 213

    Anything you wish to tank in GSB right now is more than doable. We didn't start out with any other tanks but myself and they still prefer me to tank over warrior/rogues. Only boss that I have threat problems on is Joehlen b/c we dont' have alot of raid members taking damage so my threat is minimal and your dps just needs to not be Dbags and back off for you. Last night was our first attempt at Greenscale and we had a rogue tank with a little over 100 life resist and it went ok but he was getting destroyed by the cleave. On our last attempt we switched to cleric tank and I took less overall damage than he did with 0 life resist. We can tank anything we want to in this game people just need to learn how to adapt to us tanking.

  9. #159
    Soulwalker
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    Thank you so much for your thread. THANK YOU! If there would be a list with good 50 starting items, and good final equip, it would be perfekt. But so far, you told everything what I wanted to know so far.

    Thank you very much!

  10. #160
    Telaran Cithran's Avatar
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    Default Armor of Devotion?

    Thanks for a great guide! Quick question. I see in the builds with Inq that you've spent one point to get Armor of Devotion. Maybe I have overlooked something, but I thought the Armor shield to be used during tanking would be Armor of Treachery, so why the one point there?
    Last edited by Cithran; 05-25-2011 at 05:00 AM.

  11. #161
    Shield of Telara Sixpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    nobody wants me to tank anymore and my guild mates asked me to remove my tank spec.

    I ran a pug and failed as a tank and blamed the pug... ran with guild lastnight and they just said dont do it anymore.
    too many problems holding aggro and not enough mitigation for our t2 runs.
    Assuming this isn't a troll post (which is possible), you're either badly geared or just not cut out for the task.

  12. #162
    Shield of Telara Sixpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cithran View Post
    Thanks for a great guide! Quick question. I see in the builds with Inq that you've spent one point to get Armor of Devotion. Maybe I have overlooked something, but I thought the Armor shield to be used during tanking would be Armor of Treachery, so why the one point there?
    Prior to release 1.2, Armor of Devotion added the 50 endurance buff that Armor of Treachery now gets. I'm assuming those were posted before 1.2 went live.

  13. #163
    Prophet of Telara Radak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixpax View Post
    Prior to release 1.2, Armor of Devotion added the 50 endurance buff that Armor of Treachery now gets. I'm assuming those were posted before 1.2 went live.
    You are correct they where from before 1.2. Will alter that point in all builds when I got the time.
    Cleric tanking: Justicar guide | Justicar spreadsheet and item list
    Defence is as much a part of war as offense, the shield as important a tool as the sword.

  14. #164
    Telaran
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    You need 6pts in Inq for Armor of Treachery so it would look like you'd put 1 pt in Fanatic's Faith to make it the 6th assuming you were only putting 6 into Inq for the armor.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spadetite View Post
    I MT everything for my guild.
    Stats are self buffed.
    HP 12626
    Armor 11589
    Parry 1167
    Block 627
    Hiit/Focus 213

    Anything you wish to tank in GSB right now is more than doable. We didn't start out with any other tanks but myself and they still prefer me to tank over warrior/rogues. Only boss that I have threat problems on is Joehlen b/c we dont' have alot of raid members taking damage so my threat is minimal and your dps just needs to not be Dbags and back off for you. Last night was our first attempt at Greenscale and we had a rogue tank with a little over 100 life resist and it went ok but he was getting destroyed by the cleave. On our last attempt we switched to cleric tank and I took less overall damage than he did with 0 life resist. We can tank anything we want to in this game people just need to learn how to adapt to us tanking.
    I don't understand this. You don't need any resistances as a rogue tank to tank Greenscale. That's what runeguard is for. Rogue tanks are anti-magic damage. However on Greenscale he has to make sure he backs away from Greenscale during the breath so he doesn't get cleaved for 5k right away and gets insta-gibbed(I'm willing to bet thats why your rogue tank dies).
    Last edited by Demise; 05-25-2011 at 09:21 AM.

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