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Thread: Fixing Justicar really this simple?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Fixing Justicar really this simple?

    Hi guys, hopefully i don't get trolled too hard for my suggestions...



    Doctrine of Valiance - replace current tooltip/effect and replace with either of the following:

    1) "Absorbs 'x' amount of magic based damage for 'y'." We can either allow convictions to stack how much magic damage is absorbed or determine how many shields are up, unless the new DoV consumes one conviction at a time (which wouldn't strike me as very efficient).

    2) "Absorbs 'x%' of magic based damage for 'y' seconds." In this case 'X' can be a flat number regardless or we can allow it to stack with spellpower, or some other formula to reward gearing up.


    I'm a casual PVP'er (handful of matches every week) so I'm not certain whether or not this would dramatically tip the scales in a PVP setting but considering we have to work for the convictions and it's not just a flat passive buff... I think it isn't unreasonable.

    Plus, this allows Clerics to be more competitive in a raiding environment while solving a few issues:

    * DoV is seen as a medciore, at best, talent only useful for using during damage spikes.

    * Cleric rotation too simple and requries no real thoughtput.

    * Clerics are severely lacking compared to their tanking peers when it comes to magic based mitigation.

    ---

    Secondly, i'd love to see the Parry cap raised with diminishing returns to prevent breaking the game. However, I'd like to see a real difference for Parry and Dodge opposed to two names for the same exact thing "avoidance."

    Perhaps we can allow Parry to avoid damage plus allow a small damage curb to the next incoming hit (x%). This could help Justicars a bit since Warriors have such an insane block rating and amount of damage blocked. However, from what I've seen Justicars handle physical based damage really well and this isn't as necessary, but I think it's a bit boring to see Parry and Dodge reallly do the exact same thing with two different coats of paint label to the words behind them.


    I pray the ideas weren't too horrible. Maybe it seems a bit simple to me and I'm sure I'm overlooking something pretty major, but I'd love for some creative input.

    Cheers.

    Maimed, Snarebrush server.
    Last edited by Maimed; 04-24-2011 at 12:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    i like the DoV idea a lot

    i'd rather see 195% sp -> parry changed to 75% sp -> parry and 75% sp -> dodge and increase the block conversion on the other talent

    ya, boring but more likely to happen

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Yeah. Seemed like someone noticed my DoV idea and just created a new thread trying to make it seem original. Funny how they didn't bother to add to this thread.

    Next time I'll just use prettier format.

    Ninja Edit: I thought of a useful addition to parry. Scrap the curb next incomng add but rather increases threat by x% modifier. This would allow Justicars to continue to maintain threat against high end DPS.
    Last edited by Maimed; 04-24-2011 at 05:24 PM.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    I don't think a fixed amount of magic absorption is going to fly. I still think the best way to go about it is to have safe haven also allow PoR to mitigate 1% magic damage per point, so the interference with pvp is minimal

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser DrakeFS's Avatar
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    Justicars don't need more threat or more physical mitigation. Something has to be wrong with you spec/gear if you believe this is the case.

    We do, however, need some form of magic damage reduction on top of what we currently have for total damage reduction. 15% would be novel, 20-30% would move us to the top of the tanking list... (48% total magic DR with 30%). The best idea i've seen so far is to make MoL give 1% magic DR per point in justicar past 36 points. This makes sure its used for tanking and would further aid us in MT RoS and Greenscale himself.
    Last edited by DrakeFS; 04-24-2011 at 07:13 PM.
    A Justicar's path is not one of ease. But, hey, we do get to hit stuff.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeFS View Post
    Justicars don't need more threat or more physical mitigation. Something has to be wrong with you spec/gear if you believe this is the case.

    We do, however, need some form of magic damage reduction on top of what we currently have for total damage reduction. 15% would be novel, 20-30% would move us to the top of the tanking list... (48% total magic DR with 30%). The best idea i've seen so far is to make MoL give 1% magic DR per point in justicar past 36 points. This makes sure its used for tanking and would further aid us in MT RoS and Greenscale himself.
    Indeed, lack of magic damage reduction spec capability is the main problem with Justicar tanks.

    Though our raw threat is fine, it would be nice to get another aggro tool, an Intercept, or additional taunt perhaps, by changing Doctrine of Valiance. That would be gravy though.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by hateful View Post
    Indeed, lack of magic damage reduction spec capability is the main problem with Justicar tanks.

    Though our raw threat is fine, it would be nice to get another aggro tool, an Intercept, or additional taunt perhaps, by changing Doctrine of Valiance. That would be gravy though.
    I've tanked a bit while leveling (just hit 49 last night), and I agree wholeheartedly... the lack of magic mitigation is painful. I'm fairly confident that Trion will address this, though (especially given how much damage comes from magic sources in T1/2 content, from what I understand).

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser DrakeFS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tearna View Post
    I've tanked a bit while leveling (just hit 49 last night), and I agree wholeheartedly... the lack of magic mitigation is painful. I'm fairly confident that Trion will address this, though (especially given how much damage comes from magic sources in T1/2 content, from what I understand).
    Meh, its not bad until Greenscale himself and RoS. Until then the bard MR buff or cabalist buff was enough.
    A Justicar's path is not one of ease. But, hey, we do get to hit stuff.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeFS View Post
    Meh, its not bad until Greenscale himself and RoS. Until then the bard MR buff or cabalist buff was enough.
    Good to know! Thanks!

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    At what point does it make sense to go beyond 38 points in Justicar? Because atm the benefits of going the full 51 doesn't seem to outweigh the benefits from the other trees. Atm 51 pt Justicar seems subpar compared to any other viable 38/x/x build. Am I wrong or does that seem accurate?

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    or we could have the talent that adds 5% block to POR for 5 points be more like
    adds 1 % block per point and adds a 20% chance for a clerics physical block to effect the magical spell

    at 5 points that means you get your 5% block (which is rediculously low for 5 points anyways) and you have 100% chance to be able to block spells as if they were melee attacks. so at 20% toosheet block your at 40% reduction then you use POR, and as long as por is up you have a 40% chance to reduce magic damage by 40%. ie you get to block magic spells with your shield.

    it scales with block, it's magic resistance, it makes wasted talent points better

    then, since we've already solved the magic damage issue

    I'd like to make doctrine of crap be a 1 point talent that
    when used uses up all convictions
    creates an aura 10 m around the cleric doing 10 damage per second (at max rank) to all enemies within range *increased threat on this damage by x10. this aura lasts for 2 seconds per conviction spent on the doctrine.

    so you go in build your convictions pop your aura and your doing the 100 threat x3 for justicar so 300 threat to all the mobs within range per second which on top of spamming even justice and keeping POR up should be about where warrior tanks are with aoe, if it's a bit lower it's no longer as low as it is now.

    either that or
    doctrine of crap changes to "hateful healing" costs 1 point
    overhealing causes threat as if the healing was actually used while mien of leadership is up.
    now all that salvation repartion overhealing crap, and spamming your group heal, are viable aoe threat options.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    Why not just have a spell reflect that is on a 7sec CD and requires a conviction?
    Last edited by Chatlagh; 04-26-2011 at 01:15 PM.

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