+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: How to Bring Justicar Tanking up to par

  1. #1
    Shadowlander Bubbs_Haven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    37

    Default How to Bring Justicar Tanking up to par

    Shield of Faith - This ability has been modified from the previous 5/10/15% reduction in damage. It now gives 0.3/0.4/0.5% reduction in damage per point spent in the Justicar soul.



    Voila! Those using justicar as an off-spec with shaman or sentinel will see similar (or even slightly less) mitigation, which tbh is reasonable since with Valor in 1.2, senticars have passive 48% mitigation before armor in full pvp gear, with crazy heals. 51 point justicar will have 25.5% mitigation, over the current 15%. However, 51 point justicar is arguably still kinda bad, most would probably go 44 point justicar for a 22% mitigation up from 15%. Couple that with 7-16 points in Shaman and 6 points in Inquisitor with the new defensive armor, we would be pretty damn beefy =)
    Proud member of Haven, home of "PvE scrubs"


  2. #2
    RIFT Community Ambassador Radak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,155

    Default

    Unfortunately that max 10.5% less damage taken still don't even get us close to rogues of warrior when in comes to magic tanking which is our biggest concern at the moment.
    This takes us from a 18% reduction to a 28.5% reduction which compared to about 50-60% from rogues or 40-50% from VK's is still not even close to comparable. (don't know the the exact number but these where the ones I found in the different threads).

    And this also don't solve our parry/block scaling problem. Yes we would take less damage but the chance of spike damage is still higher than that of a warrior because he got a much higher block chance.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander Bubbs_Haven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    37

    Default

    I think block is fine tbh. I'm at 20% parry cap with (Precept of Refuge factored in) 44% block and 41% mitigation on block. I know that block cap on tanks is about 40% block and 53% mitigation before buffs. It's really not that bad off, since our parry is SO much higher and that's full mitigation. Could definitely use some more magic mitigation though =(
    Last edited by Bubbs_Haven; 04-24-2011 at 11:27 AM.
    Proud member of Haven, home of "PvE scrubs"


  4. #4
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    225

    Default

    good idea op,

    IMO another idea, change devout deflection to split between parry and dodge. Both are full mitigation and we have next to no dodge on our gear, but that way we won't be parry capped so easily.

    The magic mitigation is a toughie. Although I'd settle for crap magic mitigation if I was the undisputed best physical mitigation or HP tank.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    467

    Default

    Honestly Justicar is fine. Actually Justicar is more than fine. You use a Rogue tank for magic damage, you use a warrior for just about everything. Justicar has THE HIGHEST Physical mitigation. Rogue's don't tank hard hitting physical damage mobs because hey get wrecked.

    Accept your role like every other tank in any MMO has. We are MORE than capable of tanking the physical damage raid bosses.

    Raid buffed I am parry capped and I am more like 50-50 on blocks with precept. Go ahead and throw in the (bugged) 3200 armor shield and we are at 85% physical mitigation. Our tanking scales huge with better gear. Get a soul machine full of the epic 10 inscribed lessers/raid rift lessers and holy crap watch your HP jump by ~2000, and block by ~10%.

    Rogues an tank T2's fine, Justicar's can tank T2's fine. Rogues can't tank physical mobs, we can't tank Greenscale. We can heal better than Rogues, tank about the same, and we can dps about the same as a rogue.

    Cleric is the best utilized class in the game. You can do everything better or at minimum 95% less than another class. Why do you whine about being able to heal, dps, and tank well?

    I guess I wanted to add, Justicar is not my main spec. The only problems I really see is threat, and that could be user error. But even our Rogue-Warrios get bosses pulled when we have people running 1700+ dps.
    Last edited by KetMalice; 04-24-2011 at 11:40 AM.

  6. #6
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    56

    Default

    I love tanking.
    But not on my Cleric.

    I have recently created a Warrior and tanking is great fun.

    Tanking as a Cleric is simply put.. boring. We're lacking skills and we're lacking... yes, magic damage reduction.

    When I tank expert dungeons I spend 80% of the time spamming Even Justice. I lack tools to tank properly and the lack of magic reduction has been pointed out several times by now.


    Below are some additional spells and talent changes that would make Cleric tanking alot more fun, as well as making us viable main tanks in all raids content, like warriors and rogues currently are.

    Spell names are made up and numbers are a guesstimate of what would seem viable. Ofcourse these must be looked at to not cause imbalance.

    Mien of Leadership (updated)

    Gives the Cleric a ruler's bearing, increasing the Cleric's threat generation by 300% and Endurance by 90%. It also increases the Cleric's Armor by 100%, plus an additional 1% per point spent in the Justicar soul. Reduces magic damage taken by 1% for every point spent in the Justicar soul above 36. Reduces all healing done by non-Justicar abilities by 40%. Reduces all damage done by non-Justicar abilities by 40%. Only 1 Mien can be active at a time.

    Light's Grasp (new)

    Uses the power of the light to draw an enemy in and force to attack the Cleric for 3 seconds. 20 meter range, 30 seconds cooldown.

    Doctrine of Elements (new)

    Releases all of the Cleric's Convictions granting the Cleric 5/10/15/20 % magic damage reduction for the next 15 seconds. Damage reduction is based on the amount of Convictions released. 12 seconds cooldown. Shares cooldown with Doctrine of Devotion.

    Doctrine of Devotion (new)

    Releases all of the Cleric's Convictions granting the Cleric 5/10/15/20 % bonus armor for the next 15 seconds. Bonus armor is based on the amount of Convictions released. 12 seconds cooldown. Shares cooldown with Doctrine of Elements.


    Hammer of the Righteous (new)

    Throw a hammer made from Life energy at an enemy dealing xxx Life damage to up to 4 enemies, in addition to causing all single target ability attacks by the Cleric against the targeted enemy to deal xx Life damage to up to 4 additional enemies for the next 12 seconds. Generates additional threat. This ability grants 1 Conviction for each enemy hit.


    Alternatively Doctrine of Elements and Doctrine of Devotion could be a set % and duration could vary depending on the amount of Convictions released.

    As a result of these changes overall threat should be slightly increased, as it will take 1 global cooldown every 15 seconds to keep up Doctrine of Elements or Doctrine of Devotion.
    Alternatively 1 or 2 reactive abilities off the global cooldown could be added to make up for the reduced threat.

  7. #7
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spijker View Post
    I love tanking.
    But not on my Cleric.

    I have recently created a Warrior and tanking is great fun.

    Tanking as a Cleric is simply put.. boring. We're lacking skills and we're lacking... yes, magic damage reduction.

    When I tank expert dungeons I spend 80% of the time spamming Even Justice. I lack tools to tank properly and the lack of magic reduction has been pointed out several times by now.


    Below are some additional spells and talent changes that would make Cleric tanking alot more fun, as well as making us viable main tanks in all raids content, like warriors and rogues currently are.

    Spell names are made up and numbers are a guesstimate of what would seem viable. Ofcourse these must be looked at to not cause imbalance.

    Mien of Leadership (updated)

    Gives the Cleric a ruler's bearing, increasing the Cleric's threat generation by 300% and Endurance by 90%. It also increases the Cleric's Armor by 100%, plus an additional 1% per point spent in the Justicar soul. Reduces magic damage taken by 1% for every point spent in the Justicar soul above 36. Reduces all healing done by non-Justicar abilities by 40%. Reduces all damage done by non-Justicar abilities by 40%. Only 1 Mien can be active at a time.

    Light's Grasp (new)

    Uses the power of the light to draw an enemy in and force to attack the Cleric for 3 seconds. 20 meter range, 30 seconds cooldown.

    Doctrine of Elements (new)

    Releases all of the Cleric's Convictions granting the Cleric 5/10/15/20 % magic damage reduction for the next 15 seconds. Damage reduction is based on the amount of Convictions released. 12 seconds cooldown. Shares cooldown with Doctrine of Devotion.

    Doctrine of Devotion (new)

    Releases all of the Cleric's Convictions granting the Cleric 5/10/15/20 % bonus armor for the next 15 seconds. Bonus armor is based on the amount of Convictions released. 12 seconds cooldown. Shares cooldown with Doctrine of Elements.


    Hammer of the Righteous (new)

    Throw a hammer made from Life energy at an enemy dealing xxx Life damage to up to 4 enemies, in addition to causing all single target ability attacks by the Cleric against the targeted enemy to deal xx Life damage to up to 4 additional enemies for the next 12 seconds. Generates additional threat. This ability grants 1 Conviction for each enemy hit.


    Alternatively Doctrine of Elements and Doctrine of Devotion could be a set % and duration could vary depending on the amount of Convictions released.

    As a result of these changes overall threat should be slightly increased, as it will take 1 global cooldown every 15 seconds to keep up Doctrine of Elements or Doctrine of Devotion.
    Alternatively 1 or 2 reactive abilities off the global cooldown could be added to make up for the reduced threat.
    This would be amazing

  8. #8
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    70

    Default

    I vote you go work for Trion.

    Would be nice to drop my Cab spec for trash simply for the aoe pulls and resists.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara Skryth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rormann View Post
    This would be amazing
    This would be OP....
    Jolly fat people are living proof that it is not possible to "laugh your *** off", though we're trying...

  10. #10
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skryth View Post
    This would be OP....
    It would, but some of the implements like the new doctrines would be nice, and the pull.

  11. #11
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spijker View Post
    Mien of Leadership (updated)

    Gives the Cleric a ruler's bearing, increasing the Cleric's threat generation by 300% and Endurance by 90%. It also increases the Cleric's Armor by 100%, plus an additional 1% per point spent in the Justicar soul. Reduces magic damage taken by 1% for every point spent in the Justicar soul above 36. Reduces all healing done by non-Justicar abilities by 40%. Reduces all damage done by non-Justicar abilities by 40%. Only 1 Mien can be active at a time.

    .
    This change was only one I saw practical. Threat generation is EZ for Justicars .... the freaking DPS need to wait more than 1 attack is all due to the fact that NON of our skills "cause additional threat" whatever amount that actually is. (yes they all cause 300% but 300% of a 250 even justice is only 750 threat .... AOEer's are doing way more than that..... so they WAIT. Give a cleric 10 sec and you won't pull off him unless you taunt or severely out gear him.

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser DrakeFS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    EST Baby
    Posts
    345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarric View Post
    This change was only one I saw practical. Threat generation is EZ for Justicars .... the freaking DPS need to wait more than 1 attack is all due to the fact that NON of our skills "cause additional threat" whatever amount that actually is. (yes they all cause 300% but 300% of a 250 even justice is only 750 threat .... AOEer's are doing way more than that..... so they WAIT. Give a cleric 10 sec and you won't pull off him unless you taunt or severely out gear him.
    Im pretty sure the threat generated from our attacks out-threat any ability that generates additional threat. The only time I have lost aggro on AE pulls is when the AE'ers drop an AE on the mobs before they reach the point I am pulling to. If the mobs are not moving and you see me swing once, you wont pull off me.

    To the OP, all we need is magic DR and we are set. Its not that we don't want to tank magic bosses, its we cant. On Greenscale alone, we take 100% more damage than a warrior tank... ~150% more than a rouge. That's not good mojo. We do not need more physical mitigation and giving us such would move us from worst to first.
    Last edited by DrakeFS; 04-24-2011 at 05:30 PM.
    A Justicar's path is not one of ease. But, hey, we do get to hit stuff.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spijker View Post
    Mien of Leadership (updated)

    Gives the Cleric a ruler's bearing, increasing the Cleric's threat generation by 300% and Endurance by 90%. It also increases the Cleric's Armor by 100%, plus an additional 1% per point spent in the Justicar soul. Reduces magic damage taken by 1% for every point spent in the Justicar soul above 36. Reduces all healing done by non-Justicar abilities by 40%. Reduces all damage done by non-Justicar abilities by 40%. Only 1 Mien can be active at a time.
    Nice effort but you'd inadvertently pigeonhole virtually all Justicar tanking build into going the full 51 just to remain competitive with Warriors and Rogues. It wouldn't be much of an issue if they were required to put the full 51 points into their primary tanking soul as well. This isn't the case, therefore your suggestion allows lesser flexibility to take advantage of talents from other souls.

    Personally I like the idea I had (one you've repeated with Doctrine of Elements) because it allows Justicars to be more mindful of their tools at their disposal. I'd be extremely happy if Trion implemented something along these lines to ensure we're not just daily dungeon tanks.

  14. #14
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeFS View Post
    Im pretty sure the threat generated from our attacks out-threat any ability that generates additional threat. The only time I have lost aggro on AE pulls is when the AE'ers drop an AE on the mobs before they reach the point I am pulling to. If the mobs are not moving and you see me swing once, you wont pull off me.

    To the OP, all we need is magic DR and we are set. Its not that we don't want to tank magic bosses, its we cant. On Greenscale alone, we take 100% more damage than a warrior tank... ~150% more than a rouge. That's not good mojo. We do not need more physical mitigation and giving us such would move us from worst to first.
    I'm not worried about losing agro at all. But can you say you have fun spamming Even Justice throughout every single expert dungeon? I can't.

    And as I wrote, the numbers are made up, it's upto Trion to balance things, I don't get payed for that!

    And yes probabaly the Doctrine of Devotion is not necessairy, but instead the armor bonus from Mien of Leadership could be slightly reduced. Giving us the choise, do we want magic defense or physical defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maimed View Post
    Nice effort but you'd inadvertently pigeonhole virtually all Justicar tanking build into going the full 51 just to remain competitive with Warriors and Rogues. It wouldn't be much of an issue if they were required to put the full 51 points into their primary tanking soul as well. This isn't the case, therefore your suggestion allows lesser flexibility to take advantage of talents from other souls.

    Personally I like the idea I had (one you've repeated with Doctrine of Elements) because it allows Justicars to be more mindful of their tools at their disposal. I'd be extremely happy if Trion implemented something along these lines to ensure we're not just daily dungeon tanks.
    About the mandatory 51 points, I'm sure the magic resistance could be added in a different manner, but it is needed without a doubt.

    I just saw your post now, can't say I'm a big fan of these forums
    So it's not copied, but it must mean there's some truth in it and we need some love.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    7,409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KetMalice View Post
    Honestly Justicar is fine. Actually Justicar is more than fine. You use a Rogue tank for magic damage, you use a warrior for just about everything. Justicar has THE HIGHEST Physical mitigation. Rogue's don't tank hard hitting physical damage mobs because hey get wrecked.

    Accept your role like every other tank in any MMO has. We are MORE than capable of tanking the physical damage raid bosses.

    Raid buffed I am parry capped and I am more like 50-50 on blocks with precept. Go ahead and throw in the (bugged) 3200 armor shield and we are at 85% physical mitigation. Our tanking scales huge with better gear. Get a soul machine full of the epic 10 inscribed lessers/raid rift lessers and holy crap watch your HP jump by ~2000, and block by ~10%.

    Rogues an tank T2's fine, Justicar's can tank T2's fine. Rogues can't tank physical mobs, we can't tank Greenscale. We can heal better than Rogues, tank about the same, and we can dps about the same as a rogue.

    Cleric is the best utilized class in the game. You can do everything better or at minimum 95% less than another class. Why do you whine about being able to heal, dps, and tank well?

    I guess I wanted to add, Justicar is not my main spec.
    The only problems I really see is threat, and that could be user error. But even our Rogue-Warrios get bosses pulled when we have people running 1700+ dps.

    All 3 can tank physical mobs. Doesnt matter if justicar is better at it when a great number of end game bosses are indeed magical. It makes no sense to say "Hey justi,since you can tank physical, lets have warrior a rest and you tank this one so you can feel more useful"

    They will just make the warrior tank everything

    Rogues can tank physical as well as magical when geared, and since i assume this is talking about geared tanks, again it makes no sense to take someone who can tnak all features and put him away, just so a tank who is only good at one feature to tank.

    There is no role to accept. Being an OK tank will not automatically have anyone jump at the chance to have you tank unless its off tanking, something that anyone can do as well.

    In this, and any game, almost doesnt count. If you arent the best choice, then there is really no reason to use you.
    Last edited by Eughe; 04-24-2011 at 05:59 PM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts