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Thread: Sentinel needs some help.

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    Rift Disciple Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Default Sentinel needs some help.

    Each of our healing specs are meant for different things. Purifier does its job of single target healing very well. Warden is the preemptive, decent at both single target and AoE healer, and Sentinel was meant to be a raid healer. Well, Sentinel not only does worse raid healing then warden, but it goes oom incredibly quickly if it tries, while the warden is laughing and sitting at 90% mana after. I for one would love to see Sentinel actually become a raid healer, focused on quickly healing the AoE damage that a lot of bosses put out. Here are some of the ideas I came up with:

    First, we need something to help with mana. My idea, is to take out Lasting Invocation, because honestly, its useless. Replace with a talent like this: Your critical heals with AoE heals restore 2/4/6/8/10% of the mana cost of the spell, up to a total of 60%. So, lets say you cast healing communion, for 339 mana. 4 of the 10 heals crit, you would get back 135 mana. Even with this change, lowering the mana cost on healing Communion might be needed, or we need something like Cascade. Healing Communion is about 9% of my mana, so even with the refund, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to use it at every opportunity, which would be redundant for what would mainly be our spam AoE heal.

    Next, we need more then 1 AoE heal that we can use on a normal basis. An instant cast, 10 target heal that heals for, say, half of what Healing Communion does, and put it on an 6 second CD. Half the mana cost of healing communion. Why instant cast? Well, the way healing happens during raids, between smart bards and chloros and wardens, most AoE dmg is healed relatively quickly. If you don't queue up your healing Communion at the right time, you either waste mana or time. This gives a little more leniency and an ability to use while moving. Replace Luminous Gaze with this.

    Next up: Word of Hope. Why is it that our 36 point spell buff only effects our slow single target heal, in what was suppose to be an AoE healing build? Odd. Well, this one I had two ideas for. Obviously, same effect it has now, but for our AoE heals/Breath of life, and/or this: For every 5 points spent in sentinel, your healing breath heals an addition target through Enraptured Breath. So basically, at 51 points, a healing breath would heal the main target, and 5 additional targets. I like this idea, mainly because it gives us a way to heal people outside of our 15/20 yard range on our current AoE heals.

    Healing Benediction would need some work. 513 mana on a 2 min CD, for a spell that would probably get 1 or two ticks off before everyone is fully healed. Not worth it at all. So, heres my idea for it: Place a buff on the cleric for one hour, Whenever anyone within 20 yards of the cleric takes damage, they are healed for 300, up to a total of 10 targets. The target cannot be healed by this spell more then once every 8 or 10 seconds. I'm willing to admit that this would be fairly OP, and I'm bias, so I'm unsure as to what people would think is a fair CD for this one. This would not proc the mana refund thingy.

    Vigilance is another thing that might need some help, I think its a nifty Ohshi- button, but its again, single target, and high up in sentinel, and only good for the tank, really. So here's my idea: The cleric becomes ever vigilant of his allies health, when an ally within 20 yards of the cleric drops below 15%, they are healed for 300-500. 5 min CD, one heal only. Same concept, except its more group friendly.

    Last up is that I think Surging Flames and Healer's Haste should be switched. I realize that without Surging Flames, Purifier has really no AoE healing, but Purifier is meant for single target healing. The only use Healer's Haste would be in this new Sentinel is to spam Healing Communion, which we wouldn't need to do. Purifier would make better use of it, Seeing as they mainly spam their 3 sec. heal.

    Any thoughts? Sentinel atm is the utility healer, its a good compliment to purifier, however it doesn't stand well on its own, unlike Purifier or Warden. People who use the Pur/Sent spec won't really lose much from these changes, in fact they would probably benefit from them, and it would let Sentinel be a fun raid healing spec.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 04-23-2011 at 10:51 AM.

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    I don't have mana problems on a role with Sent as main, so guessing you are doing something very wrong, prob spamming your sent AE heals way too much when not needed.

    On Lasting Invocation, its very good and very usefull, if you don't think so, you are playing your Sent the wrong way. If you spam your HI, sure, then it's not as usefull, but play smarter and it becomes good.

    I never use Healing Communion, so I don't have a problem with its cost. I consider both that and Healing Grace to be worthless and I dont have them on any hotbuttons.

    I think you need to rethink how you play your sentinel, and also rethink what and how you mix it up with other souls.

    Edit:
    Vigilance do need to be changed thou. I never use it. It's laughable at best compared to the Purifier variant.

    Also Surging Flames is pretty useless after you start on Experts, it's not a good or reliable way to keep your group alive. It's mainly good pre-expert. I'd hate if they switched out Healers Haste for it.
    Last edited by Luterin; 04-23-2011 at 11:03 AM.

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    Rift Disciple Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    I don't have mana problems on a role with Sent as main, so guessing you are doing something very wrong, prob spamming your sent AE heals way too much when not needed.

    On Lasting Invocation, its very good and very usefull, if you don't think so, you are playing your Sent the wrong way. If you spam your HI, sure, then it's not as usefull, but play smarter and it becomes good.

    I never use Healing Communion, so I don't have a problem with its cost. I consider both that and Healing Grace to be worthless and I dont have them on any hotbuttons.

    I think you need to rethink how you play your sentinel, and also rethink what and how you mix it up with other souls.
    I think you're missing the point, but in fact this post helps drive my fact home. It was suppose to be an AoE healing build, yet you don't even use the AoE healing spells.

    Lasting Invocation only puts a hot on for the amount healed, for one. 100% overhealing = no heal, at all. The chances of you getting a decent use out of lasting invocation in a raid is... small, as Tanks are healed up very quickly, and unless they get a big burst .5 seconds before HI hits them, the heal will be weak, and probably end up being over healed. You're better off using a Restorative Flame build, as even with 100% overhealing, a shield is placed on the tank that will always be used.

    The point of this is to make Sentinel an AoE healing spec, meaning you WILL be using Healing Communion more often, which would lead to mana issues in the current system.

    My post has nothing to do with how I play my Sentinel build currently, I'm not sure where you see that.

    Edit: Surging Flames is actually fairly useful, when used correctly. I find it helpful in experts and less helpful in raids, but it has its place. Healers Haste is good, when needed to spam HI, but with the new sentinel, you wouldn't be spamming HI.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 04-23-2011 at 11:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    I think you're missing the point, but in fact this post helps drive my fact home. It was suppose to be an AoE healing build, yet you don't even use the AoE healing spells.

    Lasting Invocation only puts a hot on for the amount healed, for one. 100% overhealing = no heal, at all. The chances of you getting a decent use out of lasting invocation in a raid is... small, as Tanks are healed up very quickly, and unless they get a big burst .5 seconds before HI hits them, the heal will be weak, and probably end up being over healed. You're better off using a Restorative Flame build, as even with 100% overhealing, a shield is placed on the tank that will always be used.

    The point of this is to make Sentinel an AoE healing spec, meaning you WILL be using Healing Communion more often, which would lead to mana issues in the current system.

    My post has nothing to do with how I play my Sentinel build, I'm not sure where you see that.
    I never considered Sentinel to be a sustained AE healer, I considered him to be an "oh ****" AE healer with Divine Call. And to lesser extent Healing Breath, just 3 targets, so not really AE.

    Also, you cant really expect all healers to be good in all situations. If you think Purifiers are better healers for the Raid Tank, then be one of those.

    I'd hate if they made Sentinel a AE healing soul and reduced any other capabilities it has atm, I want it to stay the way it is, except for some minor changes to Healing Communion and Healing Grace to make them worthwile to have on the actionbar.

    Also, ofcourse I take for granted that your post is related to how you play your char, atleast your statements make it sound like that, since you have problems I don't.

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    Also, don't try to change Sentinel to something else that already exists, if Warden or Purifier are better at what you want done, then play one of those... Simple, eh?

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    Rift Disciple Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    I never considered Sentinel to be a sustained AE healer, I considered him to be an "oh ****" AE healer with Divine Call. And to lesser extent Healing Breath, just 3 targets, so not really AE.

    Also, you cant really expect all healers to be good in all situations. If you think Purifiers are better healers for the Raid Tank, then be one of those.

    I'd hate if they made Sentinel a AE healing soul and reduced any other capabilities it has atm, I want it to stay the way it is, except for some minor changes to Healing Communion and Healing Grace to make them worthwile to have on the actionbar.

    Also, ofcourse I take for granted that your post is related to how you play your char, atleast your statements make it sound like that, since you have problems I don't.
    I've pretty much found that my only use in a raid as Sent as it is, is to spam an inferior single target heal on the tank, only to have it overheal most of the time, and heal 3 targets quickly while chloros and wardens laugh as they heal everyone else. I must be doing it wrong though, so please inform me how you do better healing then wardens without using your AoE heals.

    Mathematically, Purifier is a stronger tank healing build then Sentinel. Warden can AoE heal better thanks to mana efficiency. These changes won't effect the main 34/32 Pur/sent build, as most of the moves changed are the 36+ sent spells. In raids, AoE dmg is predictable, so an ohshi- AE healer is redundant, as there are very very rarely any moments like that.

    And I don't want all healers to be good in all situations. I think purifier should be single target, sentinel be AoE healing, and warden be a mix of both. Seems fair. Also, these changes will only effect mainly deep sentinel, it would still keep most of its current synergy with warden/pur.

    Edit: Purifier and Warden are better, so i do use them over sent now. I dislike this, as Sentinel was advertised to be an AoE healing build and is what I wanted to play, but on its own it really isn't good. at all.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 04-23-2011 at 11:27 AM.

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    I dont use the "main 34/32 Pur/sent build" as I consider it to be inferior. Sure it's good for people that are new to healing and want an "easy" way out, but it's hardly very efficient compared to what you can accomplish.

    So I do care about the changes high en the Sent tree, and I don't want them to change the main functionality behind Sentinels, cause they can't make it the "best AE healer" without nerfing their other skils, which I use alot.

    If you want lots of AE healing, there are ways to accomplish this without having to change anything.

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    Rift Disciple Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    I dont use the "main 34/32 Pur/sent build" as I consider it to be inferior. Sure it's good for people that are new to healing and want an "easy" way out, but it's hardly very efficient compared to what you can accomplish.

    So I do care about the changes high en the Sent tree, and I don't want them to change the main functionality behind Sentinels, cause they can't make it the "best AE healer" without nerfing their other skils, which I use alot.

    If you want lots of AE healing, there are ways to accomplish this without having to change anything.
    I don't want to sidetrack my own thread, but what spec do you use? It sounds like you just spam HI/HG/HB, and you can easily do more healing with a 34/32 build with this kind of method.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    I don't want to sidetrack my own thread, but what spec do you use? It sounds like you just spam HI/HG/HB, and you can easily do more healing with a 34/32 build with this kind of method.
    I don't spam anything. If you want to be efficient you gotta do more than just spam one button or one macro.

    Yes, I use HIs often, but it's very seldom that I "spam" it.

    Not sure about what HG and HB is?

    HG=Healing Grace? I already said that I dont even have it among my hotkeys and consider it worthless.

    HB=Healing Breath? Hardly somethign you can spam with 8 second cooldown, but I use this often aswell, but almost never on the MT. It's one of the few abilities I have with @mouseover in my macros.

    Having too much @mouseover is also very inefficient.

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    Rift Disciple Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    I don't spam anything. If you want to be efficient you gotta do more than just spam one button or one macro.

    Yes, I use HIs often, but it's very seldom that I "spam" it.

    Not sure about what HG and HB is?

    HG=Healing Grace? I already said that I dont even have it among my hotkeys and consider it worthless.

    HB=Healing Breath? Hardly somethign you can spam with 8 second cooldown, but I use this often aswell, but almost never on the MT. It's one of the few abilities I have with @mouseover in my macros.

    Having too much @mouseover is also very inefficient.
    Then what spells do you use? Also, how would using a mouseover for every spell be bad?

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    If you aren't spamming something then you aren't healing correctly. Healing in RIFT is NOT about reactive healing. You pretty much have to pre heal everything other than AoE damage. And even AoE damage it's much better to pre heal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    Also, how would using a mouseover for every spell be bad?
    Because then you can only heal one person without having to move your mouse.

    Imagine that your "instacasts" have @mouseover for quick help when someone takes damage that you didnt count on.
    Then on your big reliable heals you have @focus along with having the MT as focus.

    That way you can heal group members AND the MT without having move mouse back to MT, more reliable.

    Then you can also have an OT on normal target and use normal heal spells without any @. That way you can heal 3 different people without moving mouse.

    Add "selfcast" button to that and you can heal yourself aswell, still without moving mouse to either you or any of the tanks. Thats 4 targets totally with more control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KetMalice View Post
    If you aren't spamming something then you aren't healing correctly. Healing in RIFT is NOT about reactive healing. You pretty much have to pre heal everything other than AoE damage. And even AoE damage it's much better to pre heal.
    Ofcourse all healers in Expert+ are "spamming heals", but the objection was to spamming just one or two select heals instead of using what is available. You can be more efficient than that, otherwise we could just get a G15 keyboard to replace you.

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    Rift Disciple Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    Because then you can only heal one person without having to move your mouse.

    Imagine that your "instacasts" have @mouseover for quick help when someone takes damage that you didnt count on.
    Then on your big reliable heals you have @focus along with having the MT as focus.

    That way you can heal group members AND the MT without having move mouse back to MT, more reliable.

    Then you can also have an OT on normal target and use normal heal spells without any @. That way you can heal 3 different people without moving mouse.

    Add "selfcast" button to that and you can heal yourself aswell, still without moving mouse to either you or any of the tanks. Thats 4 targets totally with more control.
    To each his own, I suppose. I have everything bound with a mouseover, and all of our tanks are next to teach other in raid frames. The .2 seconds it takes me to move my mouse may cause a wipe though! In all srsness, I still want to know what spec you use, and what your normal "rotation" might look like. I've never had a need to do what you just described, mouseover on everything works fine with quick reactions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luterin View Post
    Ofcourse all healers in Expert+ are "spamming heals", but the objection was to spamming just one or two select heals instead of using what is available. You can be more efficient than that, otherwise we could just get a G15 keyboard to replace you.
    Dude in Experts all I do is turn my G15 on and go afk during boss fights. Spamming 1 button sadly is the best way to get the job done.

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