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Thread: Justicar/Shaman/Cabalist Tank

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Justicar/Shaman/Cabalist Tank

    I'm just wondering if this build would make sense or not...

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...osoxezRo.VpAoz

    I was looking at the Shaman tree and it seems like after the first few levels, there's very little 'tank' related stuff in there (i.e. increasing endurance and shield blockage, etc). The Cabalist, however, at the first level increases Spell Power which - because of the Justicar's Stalwart Citadel - doubles as an increase to block. I also dumped the rest of my points into the Cabalist's DoT abilities and AoEs because I figure the tank is meant to go in there, suck up all the aggro, and just rely on the actual healer for healing. I figure if I can drop some AoE damage - Curse of Solitude, Shadow Touch, and Engulfing Shadows - I can get those mobs down relatively quickly and keep all the aggro on me thanks to the Jusicar's Mien of Leadership.

    My main issue right now is that I'm lacking the Shaman's strength buff. Having said that, I think that Engulfing Shadows is worth the trade off all things considered.

    So does that make sense? Or am I completely off base here?

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    The build works out as far as tanking goes, your main focus with it is AoE damage/threat and would need testing to see how well it works.

    Part of the reason that you want to use Justicar skills to keep threat, is that in addition to the damage you get more healing from them normally.

    Jolt from shaman is good for single target threat in Shaman tree.

    Curse of Solitude and Engulfing Shadows would give you a lot of AoE for Trash or Bosses that spawn large numbers of Adds.

    You have all of the normal tanking abilities that you need from Justicar anyway. The 44 point Justicar ability is nice, but I find it is lackluster compared to what you can get from others.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    But to get jolt would require missing out on either Engulfing Shadows or the Justicar's Just Defence. If I had just one more point, I'd pick up jolt...but without that point, I think the two abilities mentioned are well worth the trade off.
    Last edited by Matt M; 04-22-2011 at 11:43 AM.

  4. #4
    Rift Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
    I'm just wondering if this build would make sense or not...

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...osoxezRo.VpAoz

    I was looking at the Shaman tree and it seems like after the first few levels, there's very little 'tank' related stuff in there (i.e. increasing endurance and shield blockage, etc). The Cabalist, however, at the first level increases Spell Power which - because of the Justicar's Stalwart Citadel - doubles as an increase to block. I also dumped the rest of my points into the Cabalist's DoT abilities and AoEs because I figure the tank is meant to go in there, suck up all the aggro, and just rely on the actual healer for healing. I figure if I can drop some AoE damage - Curse of Solitude, Shadow Touch, and Engulfing Shadows - I can get those mobs down relatively quickly and keep all the aggro on me thanks to the Jusicar's Mien of Leadership.

    My main issue right now is that I'm lacking the Shaman's strength buff. Having said that, I think that Engulfing Shadows is worth the trade off all things considered.

    So does that make sense? Or am I completely off base here?
    Your build is pretty similar to one I use for trash pack tanking using tyranny. Just a few points I would change if I were you: get out of DoV and Light Makes Right. Those points should go into vengeful justice, healers creed, or most anything else in Justicar to be more effective (in fact any build with less than 50 in Just that has those is "doing it wrong" imo). You may also want to move the points out of Hammer of Virtue and in to Safe Haven (assuming from the 5/5 commitment you are going m/b not 2-hder).

    One last thing to consider is dropping Glacial Shield to pick up Maelstrom. Both have their uses though so I can certainly understand not doing so.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    In my opinion, most of your aoe should be coming from even justice. It has no CD so you can spam it. With every ability you lose 40% damage because of mein of leadership. So not sure how well the aoe will work from the other soul tree's. You lose out on the endurance buffs from other tree's also this way. You didnt pick up safe haven in the justicar tree that increases your block by 5% more. I go with either of a couple builds and one being shaman/justicar/druid & justicar/druid/purifier. Shaman i just try to increase all crit and attack bonus to help out my justicar abilities and purifer and druid for both endurance buffs and to increase shields. But ya just my 2 cents worth atleast.

  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrmachine View Post
    In my opinion, most of your aoe should be coming from even justice. It has no CD so you can spam it. With every ability you lose 40% damage because of mein of leadership. So not sure how well the aoe will work from the other soul tree's. You lose out on the endurance buffs from other tree's also this way. You didnt pick up safe haven in the justicar tree that increases your block by 5% more. I go with either of a couple builds and one being shaman/justicar/druid & justicar/druid/purifier. Shaman i just try to increase all crit and attack bonus to help out my justicar abilities and purifer and druid for both endurance buffs and to increase shields. But ya just my 2 cents worth atleast.
    From the looks of it, this build is trying to overcome the 5 target limit weakness that Justicar experiences with AoE fights.

    Yes, with tricky character turning and mob placements you can hold more than 5, but if they are all stacked on top you can not consistently hold agro on all of them from high damage AoE classes like Stormcaller.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerkin View Post
    From the looks of it, this build is trying to overcome the 5 target limit weakness that Justicar experiences with AoE fights.

    Yes, with tricky character turning and mob placements you can hold more than 5, but if they are all stacked on top you can not consistently hold agro on all of them from high damage AoE classes like Stormcaller.
    Tab button solve that problem?

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    Ima tell you right now from personal cleric tanking experience, 14 Inquisitor is the way to go. Soul Drain can hit upwards of 15 enemies. Mein of Leadership is going to kill your non-Justicar damage so you really should just think about your other souls to support the Justicar and stuff like spell power/endurance/damage reduction/etc.

    This is the build I tank with at the moment...

    Tank Build

    This is what I might switch to though...

    Alternative Tank Build

    The increase to spell power would be nice because that in turn boosts Parry and Block. Also having Sigil of Power, Decay, and Obliterate combined with Aggressive Renewal would help get some mana back when needed.

    Plus a little extra magic defense with Dark Harbor is never a bad thing. Don't forget to, when all else fails you can use Doctrine of Loyalty for the ever-persistent healer aggro

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    A cleric tank tried a justi/cabby spec last night purely for poops and grins last nighht in GSB, and it was holding threat exceptionally well. It was very nearly pulling off our rogue tank, who was doing a single target rotation.

    So, it's pretty viable, actually.

    He was using decay/tyranny. From what he was saying, having the channel decay didn't really detriment anything. And Tyranny was hitting much harder than even justice, even with mein up. So, as long as it's not a group of 7 truck-like caster mobs, a cleric tank is pretty OP at tanking them.
    Carule - Cleric
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    Clerics CAN push 1200+ DPS single!

  10. #10
    Champion Fyrestorme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
    I'm just wondering if this build would make sense or not...

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...osoxezRo.VpAoz

    I was looking at the Shaman tree and it seems like after the first few levels, there's very little 'tank' related stuff in there (i.e. increasing endurance and shield blockage, etc). The Cabalist, however, at the first level increases Spell Power which - because of the Justicar's Stalwart Citadel - doubles as an increase to block. I also dumped the rest of my points into the Cabalist's DoT abilities and AoEs because I figure the tank is meant to go in there, suck up all the aggro, and just rely on the actual healer for healing. I figure if I can drop some AoE damage - Curse of Solitude, Shadow Touch, and Engulfing Shadows - I can get those mobs down relatively quickly and keep all the aggro on me thanks to the Jusicar's Mien of Leadership.

    My main issue right now is that I'm lacking the Shaman's strength buff. Having said that, I think that Engulfing Shadows is worth the trade off all things considered.

    So does that make sense? Or am I completely off base here?
    spell dmg doesn't apply to FIA; just sp,sh,focus
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Maiska's Avatar
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    I don't think there is any reason to not have 51 points in justicar for the extra 13% armor over what you have. I use 51/8/6 Just/sham/cab with a point left to put where you want( I use it in shaman for 1% crit) and I never lose threat on Aoe mobs. Just pull with bound fate to start and begin EJ spam. Our group healing generates more threat than anything else we do. I could see dropping glacial shield and 2 points from justicar to grab tyranny if you are having problems but I still don't see why you would want to sacrifice more armor than that.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    i just ran with a justi tank like this. he held aoe aggro rather well spamming tyranny and decay when needed. said he was 44 justi then mixed the rest into inq/cabal. i was impressed and got to thinking i might try this out for my tank build

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Getafix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maiska View Post
    I don't think there is any reason to not have 51 points in justicar for the extra 13% armor over what you have.
    I thought the same Maiska, but eventually dropped down to 44 and went a little deeper into Shaman, and so far it's working very well.

    I'm using http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10....quRsVeekRo.Vz

    Yes I've lost a little armour and Doctrine of Authority, but I've gained a second mana regen CD (not that mana was a huge issue, but could become a problem on pure magic bosses where it was a long fight and I couldn't get mana back from blocking), Jolt, Glory, some more crit and crit damage.

    I haven't really noticed the difference from having a bit less armour. In fact I'm tempted to go down to 38 points so I can pick up Heart of the Frozen sea; coupled with Dark Harbor and Bard magic resist that would go even further to plugging one of our major weaknesses, magic damage - at least against Cyclorax and other air / water damage mobs.

    The other benefit would be Courage of the Eagle, which seems to not be overwritten by other classes buffs like Bear and Jaguar are.

    Not sure I want to lose that much more armour and the oh crap CD though, so I'll keep thinking on that one.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by tssmith78 View Post
    Ima tell you right now from personal cleric tanking experience, 14 Inquisitor is the way to go. Soul Drain can hit upwards of 15 enemies. Mein of Leadership is going to kill your non-Justicar damage so you really should just think about your other souls to support the Justicar and stuff like spell power/endurance/damage reduction/etc.

    This is the build I tank with at the moment...

    Tank Build

    This is what I might switch to though...

    Alternative Tank Build

    The increase to spell power would be nice because that in turn boosts Parry and Block. Also having Sigil of Power, Decay, and Obliterate combined with Aggressive Renewal would help get some mana back when needed.

    Plus a little extra magic defense with Dark Harbor is never a bad thing. Don't forget to, when all else fails you can use Doctrine of Loyalty for the ever-persistent healer aggro

    soul drain hits a max of 4 enemies. not sure if you meant circle of oblivion maybe? tyranny can hit 7. but soul drain definitely does not hit 15 enemies :P

    i reread the tooltip.. says 3 enemies and each enemy hit can hit up to 4, so it might be possible to hit 3x4=12, but i dont see how that would ever be possible, the way the mobs would have to be spread out to accomplish that seems very low chance.
    Last edited by ncash; 04-22-2011 at 03:08 PM.

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncash View Post
    soul drain hits a max of 4 enemies. not sure if you meant circle of oblivion maybe? tyranny can hit 7. but soul drain definitely does not hit 15 enemies :P

    i reread the tooltip.. says 3 enemies and each enemy hit can hit up to 4, so it might be possible to hit 3x4=12, but i dont see how that would ever be possible, the way the mobs would have to be spread out to accomplish that seems very low chance.
    its up to 15 total hits but you are right very slim to no real chance of that hitting 15 seperate targets. It is an awesome spell though.

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