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Thread: The problem with clerics

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
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    Default The problem with clerics

    Is the people trying to kill them.

    Let me explain, I play a T2 geared cleric and I do fairly well for myself in PvP. I don't think this is because clerics are really OP because there are certain players that I know for a fact can really mess me up (notice I didn't say callings/souls, I said PLAYERS).

    I think one of the biggest problems is the versatility of clerics and the fact that there are few, if any, obvious signs for the other side what spec they're running in. We all know the following:

    1) You don't dps down a tank, you go after someone else.

    2) You take down a pure healer asap.

    Unfortunately for people clerics can be both of those or a hybrid. But every spec I'm aware of has a significant weakness IF you know it and know the cleric is in that spec. Here's an example with one of the most whined about specs, even if people don't know this is the spec they're whining about.

    The spec (or something close to this)
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...0oxfs.xx0R0c0V

    This is the spec that is "can't be killed" because of obscenely high mitigation and strong self healing.

    Pro-tip: Don't kill it.

    This specs big weakness is single target healing ON OTHER PEOPLE. If you and/or your team is stupid and focuses the cleric he/she IS going to laugh at you and heal through it while also healing their team for whatever damage they are taking. The cleric WILL heal through your AoE damage and post massive healing done numbers on the scoreboard.

    So how do you deal with this indestructible healer from hell? Focus down everyone else first. This spec really isn't able to keep anyone but another tank alive under pressure. If you focus the healer while he laughs at you the opposing dps will just slaughter you while you waste your time on "the healer" except to throw a silence or other CC at him now and then.

    The trouble is, if you start ignoring 'the healer' a smart cleric will switch specs to a full healer with little mitigation and start keeping their team alive and you may not even notice they switched. Yeah, we can do that. Then if you start focusing the healer they'll probably switch back to a tanky spec on the next rez and laugh at you some more.


    tl:dr Clerics aren't a problem. The problem is trying to counter a spec with strategy A that was designed to counter strategy A. Then using strategy B to counter the spec and the cleric switches to a new spec designed to counter strategy B and people don't notice.

    The other major problem is gear. A T2 geared cleric can destroy teams of blue/green geared 50s. It's like going after lowbies that really shouldn't be in the same WF with the cleric.

    T2 Gear Vs. Blue/Green Gear = Level 50 Vs. Level 40.

    P.S. I'd be happy to explain how to beat any other cleric spec. Just don't expect any soul combination you dream up to be able to beat any cleric spec, but I assure you any calling can do it.
    Last edited by Unspecified; 04-22-2011 at 02:45 AM.
    My hybrid just kicked your ***, how sad are you?

  2. #2
    Plane Touched Nibbler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unspecified View Post
    Is the people trying to kill them.

    Let me explain, I play a T2 geared cleric and I do fairly well for myself in PvP. I don't think this is because clerics are really OP because there are certain players that I know for a fact can really mess me up (notice I didn't say callings/souls, I said PLAYERS).

    I think one of the biggest problems is the versatility of clerics and the fact that there are few, if any, obvious signs for the other side what spec they're running in. We all know the following:

    1) You don't dps down a tank, you go after someone else.

    2) You take down a pure healer asap.

    Unfortunately for people clerics can be both of those or a hybrid. But every spec I'm aware of has a significant weakness IF you know it and know the cleric is in that spec. Here's an example with one of the most whined about specs, even if people don't know this is the spec they're whining about.

    The spec (or something close to this)
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...0oxfs.xx0R0c0V

    This is the spec that is "can't be killed" because of obscenely high mitigation and strong self healing.

    Pro-tip: Don't kill it.

    This specs big weakness is single target healing ON OTHER PEOPLE. If you and/or your team is stupid and focuses the cleric he/she IS going to laugh at you and heal through it while also healing their team for whatever damage they are taking. The cleric WILL heal through your AoE damage and post massive healing done numbers on the scoreboard.

    So how do you deal with this indestructible healer from hell? Focus down everyone else first. This spec really isn't able to keep anyone but another tank alive under pressure. If you focus the healer while he laughs at you the opposing dps will just slaughter you while you waste your time on "the healer" except to throw a silence or other CC at him now and then.

    The trouble is, if you start ignoring 'the healer' a smart cleric will switch specs to a full healer with little mitigation and start keeping their team alive and you may not even notice they switched. Yeah, we can do that. Then if you start focusing the healer they'll probably switch back to a tanky spec on the next rez and laugh at you some more.


    tl:dr Clerics aren't a problem. The problem is trying to counter a spec with strategy A that was designed to counter strategy A. Then using strategy B to counter the spec and the cleric switches to a new spec designed to counter strategy B and people don't notice.

    The other major problem is gear. A T2 geared cleric can destroy teams of blue/green geared 50s. It's like going after lowbies that really shouldn't be in the same WF with the cleric.

    T2 Gear Vs. Blue/Green Gear = Level 50 Vs. Level 40.

    P.S. I'd be happy to explain how to beat any other cleric spec. Just don't expect any soul combination you dream up to be able to beat any cleric spec, but I assure you any calling can do it.
    Clerics arent meant to be killed, just tickled and cc'd. If 1 rogue (like me) just constantly buggs the healer, he won't have time to heal others aka he's useless .
    Ppl are too focused on getting kills in this game. In Black Garden for example, I see so many ppl just random hitting enemies, wtf moments by the minute . And when an enemy has the fang, I see myself and 1 person, not more, go after the fang. That's the main problem, there's no team in WFs.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unspecified View Post
    Is the people trying to kill them.

    Let me explain, I play a T2 geared cleric and I do fairly well for myself in PvP. I don't think this is because clerics are really OP because there are certain players that I know for a fact can really mess me up (notice I didn't say callings/souls, I said PLAYERS).

    I think one of the biggest problems is the versatility of clerics and the fact that there are few, if any, obvious signs for the other side what spec they're running in. We all know the following:

    1) You don't dps down a tank, you go after someone else.

    2) You take down a pure healer asap.

    Unfortunately for people clerics can be both of those or a hybrid. But every spec I'm aware of has a significant weakness IF you know it and know the cleric is in that spec. Here's an example with one of the most whined about specs, even if people don't know this is the spec they're whining about.

    The spec (or something close to this)
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...0oxfs.xx0R0c0V

    This is the spec that is "can't be killed" because of obscenely high mitigation and strong self healing.

    Pro-tip: Don't kill it.

    This specs big weakness is single target healing ON OTHER PEOPLE. If you and/or your team is stupid and focuses the cleric he/she IS going to laugh at you and heal through it while also healing their team for whatever damage they are taking. The cleric WILL heal through your AoE damage and post massive healing done numbers on the scoreboard.

    So how do you deal with this indestructible healer from hell? Focus down everyone else first. This spec really isn't able to keep anyone but another tank alive under pressure. If you focus the healer while he laughs at you the opposing dps will just slaughter you while you waste your time on "the healer" except to throw a silence or other CC at him now and then.

    The trouble is, if you start ignoring 'the healer' a smart cleric will switch specs to a full healer with little mitigation and start keeping their team alive and you may not even notice they switched. Yeah, we can do that. Then if you start focusing the healer they'll probably switch back to a tanky spec on the next rez and laugh at you some more.


    tl:dr Clerics aren't a problem. The problem is trying to counter a spec with strategy A that was designed to counter strategy A. Then using strategy B to counter the spec and the cleric switches to a new spec designed to counter strategy B and people don't notice.

    The other major problem is gear. A T2 geared cleric can destroy teams of blue/green geared 50s. It's like going after lowbies that really shouldn't be in the same WF with the cleric.

    T2 Gear Vs. Blue/Green Gear = Level 50 Vs. Level 40.

    P.S. I'd be happy to explain how to beat any other cleric spec. Just don't expect any soul combination you dream up to be able to beat any cleric spec, but I assure you any calling can do it.
    Nice insight into a cleric. i think it can be pretty obvious if the cleric a justicar. you just have to look at there buffs. I always do that to mages so i know if the necro warlock chloro or pyro.
    i dont see alot of tank specs tho. most people wont focus down any cleric that is fighting and not healing.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibbler View Post
    If 1 rogue (like me) just constantly buggs the healer, he won't have time to heal others aka he's useless .
    Ding Ding Ding.

    You sir have won rift. You shall receive a prize in the mail.


    All it takes is a bunch of annoyance to slow down cast times so that healing the group becomes a liability. At most we may resort to insta and quick heals on ourselves which for the most part, heals those immediately near us. Other than that if im focusing on me, then im not focusing on 4 other people not near me.

    The cleric, may just eventually move (usually towards other people because of the pressure) further delaying their healing. Casting debuffs ( i am not too sure if clerics are the only ones with this) and spikes makes that 3 second cast a chore.
    Last edited by Eughe; 04-22-2011 at 03:07 AM.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander Sanrek's Avatar
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    I quite agree, I don't have problems with the way clerics perform at all (and to be honest, I find it nice to have healers that can actually survive if they focus on healing themselves and not just serve as food for someone else's pet / training dummy - And no I'm not a cleric, I'm a rogue).

    Like Nibbler, if by focusing/disrutping the healer I force him to focus on himself instead of his teammate, then I'm doing my job. If I have to absolutely try to take him down (or if the opposing team is mainly made of clerics and mages), then I will go out of combat and switch role to my "caster annoyer/killer" one (aka Nightblade/sin/inf)...and I don't see why a cleric couldn't use role swapping like I do to take the one that suits the situation better.
    Sanrek Jalan "le Grisecendre", Night Blade

  6. #6
    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    pretty much same thing I run. only insted of running like a coward I use justicar skills to hammer the people hitting me in the face.

    I keep getting spammed in warfronts that "clerics are op" and its funny because its always a low rank rogue complaining.

    the biggest thing that raises survivability is stunning. you tell them to cc the cleric.... but that just makes me get 50% less damage taken from players.
    and IM STILL GOING TO KILL YOU because I heal and take 50% less damage.. you dont heal and you take full damage from me.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker Squeegee's Avatar
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    Reminds me of two fights I had last night against a cleric. First one must have gone 5+ minutes. I am Chloro/warlock/necro, he was I'm assuming Inquisitor/justicar/??.

    First fight, we were just back and forth. One would get low and then heal, then the other. It finally ended when I got to close to some mobs and couldn't heal through all of it.

    Second fight was the same thing, until a random rogue came in and helped him out.

    But there really was no way that one of us was going to win 1v1 unless someone made a mistake. I suppose depending on his spec, he may have eventually ran out of mana, but that is speculation.

    Was very fun trying to kill him though.
    Shut your pie hole!!!

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Foehammer25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeegee View Post
    Reminds me of two fights I had last night against a cleric. First one must have gone 5+ minutes. I am Chloro/warlock/necro, he was I'm assuming Inquisitor/justicar/??.

    First fight, we were just back and forth. One would get low and then heal, then the other. It finally ended when I got to close to some mobs and couldn't heal through all of it.

    Second fight was the same thing, until a random rogue came in and helped him out.

    But there really was no way that one of us was going to win 1v1 unless someone made a mistake. I suppose depending on his spec, he may have eventually ran out of mana, but that is speculation.

    Was very fun trying to kill him though.
    The problem is that rogues and warriors cannot join in on that fun. Those two classes are underpowered.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foehammer25 View Post
    The problem is that rogues and warriors cannot join in on that fun. Those two classes are underpowered.
    I'm assuming you are joking. A properly specced warrior can easily solo a cleric.

    Problem is, they all want "OMG BIG CRIT", and don't spec properly to kill healers.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple TerryJStroud's Avatar
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    One thing I notice... as soon as I use Decay (I'm a Cabalist/Inquisitor), I'm screwed. Suddenly I'm CC'd, a rogue comes and brutalizes me down while everyone else goes back to battling the rest. Haha. I have to avoid using Decay across the battlefield or that's spelling instant death to me. Guess DPS/CC isn't well-appreciated by the Defiant. ;-)
    Asrael, Warrior Guardian of the shard "Shadefallen"

    - Respecting others, Guardian and Defiant alike since launch! -

  11. #11
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryJStroud View Post
    One thing I notice... as soon as I use Decay (I'm a Cabalist/Inquisitor), I'm screwed. Suddenly I'm CC'd, a rogue comes and brutalizes me down while everyone else goes back to battling the rest. Haha. I have to avoid using Decay across the battlefield or that's spelling instant death to me. Guess DPS/CC isn't well-appreciated by the Defiant. ;-)
    Use it on the pets.

    Its less noticeable.

  12. #12
    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foehammer25 View Post
    The problem is that rogues and warriors cannot join in on that fun. Those two classes are underpowered.
    rogues and warriors are not underpowered.... especially in raids compared to cleric

    as far as pvp.... ya gotta figure every rogue and warrio were the same 2 builds. once those builds got NORMALIZED (not nerfed) the perception of the classes are now that they can do nothing and are underpowered.
    once one rogue comes out with a new ZOMG PWN video/spec then everthing will be right as rain.

    I for one know a certain bunny hopping rogue that flies all over the screen at mach 7 shooting people for 1k crits and then is instantly gone the moment he falls below 80% life.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Most Rogues and Warriors use their pve or tank build in pvp and cry abotu not being able to zomgwtfpwn people.

  14. #14
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    BOO @ OP for giving away secrets >_< lol

    Actually, I never wanted to play a PvP tank. But given the amount and duration of CC in the game, you kind of have to if you want to get any healing done. The unfair part is that 13+ in left-side templar is pretty much required to heal in warfronts, giving us less room to play with specs and endlessly frustating casual players who aren't (and might never be) rank 3.

    Left-side templar's mitigation is too strong. Clerics without it are too easily dispatched. There needs to be some kind of meeting in the middle here.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker Squeegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foehammer25 View Post
    The problem is that rogues and warriors cannot join in on that fun. Those two classes are underpowered.
    I have a high 20s cleric, spec'd inq/just/sent.

    On two separate occasions recently, I was attacked by lvl 33 rogues. The first time I was lvl 27. I had to work my *** off, but I ended up beating him.

    The second time, I was lvl 29. The second rogue absolutely destroyed me. Both of these rogues were spec'd a fair amount into assassin from the skills they used. Couldn't tell you where their other points were.

    Difference?

    Rogue number one was horrible, and rogue number two actually knew how to kill a cleric.
    Shut your pie hole!!!

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