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Thread: Calling Senticar a Hybrid is Misleading

  1. #1
    Plane Touched MochaFlux's Avatar
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    Default Calling Senticar a Hybrid is Misleading

    I think it's about time the Senticar took its rightful place among the standard cleric healing builds. Judging by many posts on these forums that raise concerns about this build, I think many people don't understand the role that Senticar is meant to fill. A lot of this is probably the reputation it has gained as a hybrid dps/healer. It is most certainly NOT a hybrid in the sense that it mixes dps and healing capabilities equally. This is a healing build first and foremost with a very small amount of dps on top. If a raid has a Chloro, a Senticar, and 2 other cleric healers you have 4 healers in your raid. Nobody would say you only have 3 healers.

    Vero's post was a bit of an eye-opener for me, but I think he did his own build (yes it's his build **** already) a disservice by labeling it a hybrid healer. On any given fight, a Senticar will do about 1-3% of the raid's dps while probably accounting for at least 20% of the healing done (sometimes more depending on the fight). Compare this to, say, a cleric with an Inquisitor/Justicar build that is accounting for closer to 10% of each. With that said, it isn't wrong to call the Senticar a hybrid as it definitely fits the definition. In fact I was amazed at how I could be a raid healer, tank healer, and kind-of-dpser at different times during the same fight without doing anything other than to change the skills I was using.

    Senticars can definitely heal experts and in some fights I'd rather use my Senticar build than my Purifier/Sentinel build. The number of these fights just keeps increasing as I learn more and more how to use the Senticar. Examples of fights where a Senticar really shines are the last bosses in xCC, xAP, and xDD to name a few. To those who say that Senticars in experts are simply "doing it wrong", give it a try. You just might open yourself up to a whole new world of cleric healing. Oh and once you learn how/when to use Purpose mana concerns are a thing of the past.

    People see "healing and dps" and immediately write it off as being gimped at both. Please do yourself a favor and don't do that. Just a warning, it is extremely awkward to use at first especially in a 5-man instance, but if you learn how you won't ever look back.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    care to help the rest of the clerics pick up on the nuances on this spec ?

    i haven't tried it yet

    but on paper , it looks extremely counter intuitive to the standard cleric healing playstyle


    edit* tried browsing thru vero's thread ... it's just so filled with flames/trolls
    can't find much info , other than the spec itself
    Last edited by sihtzu; 04-21-2011 at 12:35 AM.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by ****zu View Post
    care to help the rest of the clerics pick up on the nuances on this spec ?

    i haven't tried it yet

    but on paper , it looks extremely counter intuitive to the standard cleric healing playstyle


    edit* tried browsing thru vero's thread ... it's just so filled with flames/trolls
    can't find much info , other than the spec itself
    It's an AE healing spec first and foremost, that will also produce 150-200DPS. It has very poor single target healing potential when compared to a real healing spec, but it has the sentinel instant cast, covenant and healing breath so it can spot heal. The strenght is you can spam Doctrine of Loyalty which is the best AE heal in the game, since it heals 10targets for more than Communion does, for like 60% of the mana cost and with good mana regen(via Purpose, which gives 10%mana per melee ability, for 10secs, every minute). With the nerfs to AE healing in 1.1 and some raid encounters requiring massive amounts of sustained AE healing(10mins fights with millions of unavoidable raid damage), the spec became a lot stronger, and instead of stacking 51wardens, you stack senticar(even though a 51warden will still do very well, assuming you don't need too much AE burst like on plutonus).
    Last edited by Pyros; 04-21-2011 at 12:46 AM.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by ****zu View Post
    care to help the rest of the clerics pick up on the nuances on this spec ?

    i haven't tried it yet

    but on paper , it looks extremely counter intuitive to the standard cleric healing playstyle


    edit* tried browsing thru vero's thread ... it's just so filled with flames/trolls
    can't find much info , other than the spec itself
    the main points of using justi are:

    your light attacks build convictions, do dmg, which proc's reparation, which proc's protect the flock...
    DoL is the cheapest AOE heal clerics get (heals for alot, insta cast, spammable up to 4 times, mana friendly, and heals 10 ppl) <== pretty much the reason the build came to be with how expensive AE healing is for the other souls
    if DoL hits 10 ppl, one is bound to crit...proc's serendipity...

    the points in sent speak for themselves...

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    i am getting very curious what all the fuzz is about. i am currently running a 34 sent 32 puri 0 warden spec and completly dominating t2 healing (have not been 50 for long). only thing i got a problem with is a lot of aoe dmg, since i dont really have any aoe healing i can spam without loosing 100% of my mana in 10 seconds.

    now i wonder if this spec can heal t2 or if you need another healer to fill the tank healing spot. i guess you ccould just spec the big 3 sec heal and use it if the tank needs it, but since i am contantly spamming my heals on the tank in my current spec (solo healing) i am worried that speccing the big heal will just force my playstyle/healstyle back to *standbackandspambighealontank*

    TLDR senticar viable as solo heal in t2 content?

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    It has very poor single target healing potential when compared to a real healing spec
    Actually, the beauty of the senticar is that it can do excellent aoe heals when needed and then switch over to excellent single target healing via Healing Invocation (or even HoTs with warden spec'd).

    As far as aoe healing goes any build with 10-18 Justi can fullfill that role while providing more dps for the raid/group.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glamyr View Post
    Actually, the beauty of the senticar is that it can do excellent aoe heals when needed and then switch over to excellent single target healing via Healing Invocation (or even HoTs with warden spec'd).

    As far as aoe healing goes any build with 10-18 Justi can fullfill that role while providing more dps for the raid/group.
    i disagree with the 'excellent' single target healing. Spamming HI's even more untalented ones, is far, far away from 'excellent' main tank healing. especially since this build is about raids.

    sent/just/x (p.e. i prefer much more the sentinel26/warden26/just14) is an aoe/raid healer foremost. If you invest in another healing soul (like p.e. i invest in warden) you get more aoe+st healing, if you invent more in sent+just (as is the classic sent/just build) you gain more cooldowns.

    so, judge what your raid wants, more healing or more cooldowns (esp the 2 battle rezzes are nice) and pick your point distribution accordingly.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    Yeah I don't think you want to solo heal a T2 with any sort of hybrid of these specs. They make good offhealers though, and if your "offhealer" is a chloro, then you can "mainheal" by assisting him. You're really just offhealing though, but you can pretend you're the one keeping the tank alive. Untalented HI is bad, both because you probably shouldn't have the HoT, and because you don't have enough points in sentinel for it to heal a lot. Tbh if you end up spending 18pts in Justicar, it's hard to make a viable solo healing build.

    Also another thing to note is AE healing isn't just as easy as pressing Doctrine. It's charge based, but you need to fill up the charge by using damage abilities that generate very poor healing(from Reparation). So between every AE, you need to use a crappy heal which is on GCD. It works in raids and stuff because you can build 4convictions when healing isn't needed, then unload all 4 in a row when it is needed. In T2 heals are needed all the time, if not on the group then on the tank. With the fights duration you're better off popping Healing Communion and using a couple of mana pots than trying to use Justicar to do your AE healing.

    It's a specific role that mostly works in raids, it is an AE healer, not so much an hybrid, even though it also does a bit of DPS. If you watch Vero's videos though, you'll see that he's using a 1H and melee attacks, which shows how unimportant your damage is vs the healing aspect. The damage is only there to fill your convictions, or when there's nothing to heal(which happens a lot in raids, unless your MT healing then you're spamming from start to end).

    You can make a DPS variation though, with like shaman, druid or inquis, and some justicar on the side to cast heals to help out. This is closer to a true hybrid, in the sense that it does both inferior damage and healing. But it does decent values in both, so it can be useful, especially in experts.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    I dont understand how much more discussions and revelations an old build like this can have. Its been done to death.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    ok thx that was what i wanted to hear. since im not interested in raiding im just gonna drop ip. will try a senticar based pvp protect-the-healers setup though

  11. #11
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xscoex View Post
    ok thx that was what i wanted to hear. since im not interested in raiding im just gonna drop ip. will try a senticar based pvp protect-the-healers setup though

    Honestly, in pvp, you are pretty much going to be spamming ranged attacks to build conviction and casting loyalty. The only time that it would be worth it attack is to refill mana, and thats assuming anyone sits still and allow you to beat on them.


    The its honestly more effective to spam senti skills on the other than to use mandate -> Righteous (which would work best on the fang holder in BG or the flag holder on WF assuming you use it). It heals more and your convictions should be going to loyalty in group settings.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple spitfirek's Avatar
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    I have 2 "senticar" build, one is more aoe healing and the other has some decent survivability and I use it more for pvp.

    With my first build(20 Justicar/32 Sentinel/14 Shaman) I pull about 350dps single target dps and 300-400hps healing. It has an in-combat rez, some nice utility and buffs to keep the tank and group alive... and LOTs of aoe. After the group takes an unavoidable hit for 80% of the life I bring them back to full in 2 or 3 GCDs.

    The second build(26 Justicar/26 Sentinel/14 Shaman) is more for PvP; it has much more survivability and only gives up the in-combat rez from the previous build for a large 5min CD heal on self and tank(plus faster conviction building, although that isnt really a problem on pve fights).

    I haven't tried it yet, but I was thinking of doing a similar build to above but replacing shaman with warden for more healing from the actual heals an less from the passive damage healing. It would only be good IMO is Ebb and Flow proced from the justicar passive healing... which I haven't tested yet, so I dont know if it would actually work.
    Last edited by spitfirek; 04-21-2011 at 07:20 AM.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Kita's Avatar
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    Senticar is a great build/soul-combination!
    Last edited by Kita; 04-21-2011 at 10:32 AM.

  14. #14
    Champion of Telara
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    32s/31j/X for raiding senticar with double battle rez. (x= warden OR inquisitor for SH which builds 2 convictions for 1 gcd)
    32s/20+j/10+ warden for same version, minus a battle rez, in trade for +15% more healing to your instant heals (doctrines and breath)

    both work same way; alternate your crappy instant cast light spells (you should have 3 or so), alternating DoL/DoR as needed, keeping PTF up on everyone, and proccing serendipities for spot healing. as well as breath and TTL+hi for an instant, and covenant when emergencies happen.

    Don't write off it's single target healing potential; it may not be the best, but its also not nothing, as even without LI and such you're still healing 2k+ healing invocations with serendipity from DOL

    for pvp you can go 29 sent/24 just/13 templar for ultra survivable pvp healing, losing the raid cooldowns in exchange for the templar goodies.
    Do the herpty derp, please, keep LOSing your healers behind objects so you die.

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