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Thread: Cleric Crit cap

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Cleric Crit cap

    I was wondering what the Cleric crit cap is for melee, tonight my guild did ROS raid instance and myself and another guildie were playing Druids, raid buffed I had around 40% crit and he had 50% crit. At the end of the raid (2 hours ish) we both checked are parsers and noticed on mine and his parser we were both at 28% even though he has 10% higher than me.

    This seems to suggest that we're capped at 28% but I remember seeing on here someone saying it was higher anyone else fancy filling in anything I'm missing.

    Will post parse numbers if requested.
    Last edited by Yswr; 04-20-2011 at 02:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    On parses the overall crit rate seems to go down since pet damage is added to your's but pet's crit rate isn't on same level. And because Crag Hammer/Vengeance of the Winter Storm can not crit, but are counted towards the total number of hits.

    There are some huge discrepancies between different attack crit rates though.. some too high to be explained by simple rng, for example lightning hammer dot crits half as often as anything else. But ignoring that with pet attacks leaves me around 44% actual crit rate with ~900 crit rating fully buffed.

    I've heard of diminishing returns after 35% for rogues, but assuming it's only about crit rating from gear.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Ok so some of are abilities don't crit bu the fact we were both on 28% in the parser when he has 10% more crit suggests there is a crit cap at 40% or below.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yswr View Post
    Ok so some of are abilities don't crit bu the fact we were both on 28% in the parser when he has 10% more crit suggests there is a crit cap at 40% or below.
    you mind posting some pics of the parses?

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    Here's the Parse with both of us Druids, over the space of 2 to 3 hours.

    http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1857/rosparse1.jpg
    Last edited by Yswr; 04-22-2011 at 03:15 AM.

  6. #6
    Ascendant
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    The fact that Crag Hammer and Vengeance never ever crit will throw off parsers.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Yes I understand that but with one cleric at over 50% crit and me sitting around 40% we're both obviously capping somewhere below 40%, I would just like to find that cap.

  8. #8
    Ascendant
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    I'm not seeing how you are "obviously" hitting a cap.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara
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    well seeing as they have 10%crit chance differance and they differance in the parser, in a fight that you pretty much have cinsistant dps is only 0,4% there seems to be a asoft cap somewhere.

    mind you, for said build that has many abilities that cannot crit it might be an 'artificial' made cap (i.e. created not by the mechanincs of the game but the mechanics of our abilities).

    also the lower crit toon seems to have higher sp (as jolt hits harder from what it seems and stuff) and he has higher overall dps.

    so maybe this is another proof that sp?sp crit for said build. I have a way worse sp/scrit ratio (due to me not having optimal dps gear but optimal heal gear because i usually heal) and i am not seeing a 'drastic' decrease in my dps regardless of only having lower than 400crit unbuffed but having 1150sp unbuffed.

    This was always my consern, i.e. i though in the beginning that since so many of my abilities do not crit, that sp might be better, but i was worried because i have a 1:3 ratio instead of the proposed 1:2 that i might be gimpimg my dps too much, but i still parse really good raid buffed at 950-1000 depending on fight...

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Well with one Druid (me) with 40% crit sitting at 27.9% over 2-3 hours and one Druid with well over 50% crit sat at 28.3%, accounting margins of error we're both sitting far to close to each other considering one has far more than the other.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara
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    Remember that your rotation will likely have some spells in it, which will be lower crit.

    If your pet is included it will lower your overall crit chance.

    If you're using vengeance or crag hammer, it will also lower your overal crit chance.

    Think about it this way. If your crit chance is 50% and half your spells cannot crit, your listed crit will be 25%.

    The parser might lump certain things together, like vengeance and crag might be considered the same source, potentially it might also include Jolt in it since they are all used as follow up to a standard attack and could be considered added affects. Additionally, it might include greater essence procs as a source that could lower your overall crit chance.

    I don't think some of the listed abilities are functioning as they are supposed to. Inquisitor should be giving a potential 3%/8% crit chance to melee since they are damaging abilities and to an extend spells since they will proc Smoldering Flamesource.

    This isn't to say there isn't a max crit cap, but it is very likely higher than 28%, it's just being diluted by other abilities.

    Also remember that if you have any variable crit increases from greater essences or what not, they aren't necessarily up all the time, ie if you have a +5% chance to crit up 25% of the time it gives you an expected 1.25% additional crit, etc.
    Last edited by Phage; 04-22-2011 at 07:29 AM.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phage View Post
    Remember that your rotation will likely have some spells in it, which will be lower crit.
    How many people have said this already? Lets do some simple arithmetic. Person 1 has a 40% crit chance. Person 2 has a 50% crit chance. 1/3 of hits can't crit.

    This is simply
    .4*.66=26.4% actual crit
    .5*.66=33% actual crit

    Obviously the number he posted earlier defy these and 3 hours should be more than enough to show some discrepancy. Next test I suggest they both make sure their soul builds are identical, and rotations identical. Another 2-3 hours will show if there is a cap of some kind. Then we must determine what the cap is.

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Are you both the exact same build? Are you both using the exact same rotation?

    If you can't answer yes to both of those, the argument is thrown out the window.

    With that said... My (as a shaman) massive blow crit rate is around 81% average, with my auto attacks critting at around 55% of the time.

    Don't think there is a cap, either soft or hard.
    Carule - Cleric
    Officer - Element Zero
    Clerics CAN push 1200+ DPS single!

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by DasWood View Post
    How many people have said this already? Lets do some simple arithmetic. Person 1 has a 40% crit chance. Person 2 has a 50% crit chance. 1/3 of hits can't crit.

    This is simply
    .4*.66=26.4% actual crit
    .5*.66=33% actual crit

    Obviously the number he posted earlier defy these and 3 hours should be more than enough to show some discrepancy. Next test I suggest they both make sure their soul builds are identical, and rotations identical. Another 2-3 hours will show if there is a cap of some kind. Then we must determine what the cap is.
    If you want to see the complete break down:
    Melee crit would be 40% / 50%, spells would probably be a minimum of 5~10% lower. At a very minimum you would likely see 70 less spell crit than melee crit.

    Standard 15 second rotation would be
    1 Sanction Heretic
    2.5 Lightning Hammer
    1.67 Eruption of Life
    1 Massive Blow
    2.5 Bombard
    1 Combined Effort
    1 Fervent Strike
    2.5 Jolts

    Note that the above will also include 5 DoT tics from SH, 7.5 from LH, and 5 from EoL

    This basically equates to just over 8 melee attacks and 23.5 spell attacks. Those 8 melee attacks will also include 16 additional magic.

    So for the parser entries, roughly 17% will use your melee crit, 50% will use your spell crit, and 33% will be uncrittable.

    Assuming a fairly decent melee crit rating of 40% and spell crit 35% our expected total crit percent would be 24%. Up it to 50/45 it gives you 30%, if it were 50/40 28%.

    If the problem is indeed that the parser is purely counting what abilities crit and what abilities do not, then the above break down would very easily generate very misleading crit chances, however, I do not know how Rift Junkie nor ACT break the crit chances down so there could also be issues on Trion's end for crit chances.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
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    Both exactly same build with exact same macro.

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