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Thread: An indepth look at Cleric Healing (Raid Environment)

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeroProDiGY View Post
    The wisdom will help give more spell power and wisdom to moves such as:

    EVERY SINGLE SPELL YOU HAVE
    Ebb and Flow
    Overflow

    Close to never would speccing for a single spell every be better than a static increase to a stat ESPECIALLY when that talent is on a cooldown AND isn't your only go to heal ( See Healing Invocation )
    I understand what the talent does and what wisdom does, but I don't agree with you that +5% wisdom is worth it over improving a great healing spell such as Deluge. Let's say you have a high amount of wisdom (500), then you get 25 extra wisdom which translates into 18'ish spellpower and a tiny bit mana regen... But you lose out on either; 4 second lower cooldown on deluge or +30% extra healing on Deluge.
    Personally I find the choice easy here as Deluge is a great healing spell


    @alanis
    Its very similar to my spec, I just go further up in sentinel to pick up Serendipity
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  2. #47
    Plane Touched Kerri's Avatar
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    Interesting stuff. I've recently started reevaluating my builds to optimize for T1's and T2s. (Currently 38 warden/ 28 Sent)

    I really appreciate the guide, great job, but I've got a more general healer question. When running a T1, is it so crazy to want to solo heal it?

    For instance: Running Kings Breach with that first boss fight. Until that point healing was a snore because my HoTs kept the tank nearly fully healed even through those trolls. But then the we got to the boss and I simply could not keep up with the damage the boss was doing to the tank, especially when the wolves came out. I threw everything I had at him and he would still die. Granted for most of us it was only our second run in, and for another a first but...is it really necessary to have a back up healer for a T1 or am I right to feel as though my build needs a little more large heals and not so reliant on HoTs when playing the only healer?

    I've created a Sent/Pur build but I won't be comfortable using that in a dungeon until I've gotten more familiar with the skills...and I dislike the casting times required, even with serendipity and healers haste.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whakapapa View Post
    I understand what the talent does and what wisdom does, but I don't agree with you that +5% wisdom is worth it over improving a great healing spell such as Deluge. Let's say you have a high amount of wisdom (500), then you get 25 extra wisdom which translates into 18'ish spellpower and a tiny bit mana regen... But you lose out on either; 4 second lower cooldown on deluge or +30% extra healing on Deluge.
    Personally I find the choice easy here as Deluge is a great healing spell
    Correction here by me:

    Rising waters (+30% healing on Deluge) (5/5)
    It would be more accurate to say that +30% healing on deluge multiplied by the amount of healing Deluge contributes. To know that, we need a healing parse of a characteristic dungeon. If, for example, Deluge counts for 10% of total healing, then we can say that we would improve our overall healing by 0.1*0.3=3%

    Spirit Guidance (+5% wisdom) (5/5)
    As you said, by this we gain 18.75 spell power and 25*0.33=8.33 mana/10sec (50 mana/minute)
    20 spell power increases hps by 20*0.25=5hps (if I am not mistaken), and assuming an initial 500hps healer we have an increase of 5/500=1%

    Still waters (-4sec cooldown on Deluge) (5/5)
    To do some math here is more difficult, because it would mess up with the rotations, but a 4 second cooldown Deluge would replace some other heals as it is more effective, so we need to compare with the heal done by other spells. For example, if every 10 seconds we replace 1 other heal of 1000 with a Deluge of 1200, then we have an improvement of 200/5000=4%, assuming an hps of 500 (and of course that a Deluge is valued 1200, whereas another 2sec cast heal 1000)

    Tetix,
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    Last edited by Tetix; 03-26-2011 at 07:55 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerri View Post
    Interesting stuff. I've recently started reevaluating my builds to optimize for T1's and T2s. (Currently 38 warden/ 28 Sent)

    I really appreciate the guide, great job, but I've got a more general healer question. When running a T1, is it so crazy to want to solo heal it?
    It's very possible to solo heal t1 and probably even some t2 stuff. The main problem I always found was that it's very easy to get behind on heals which in turn lead to a wipe. 5-man healing, imo, is somewhat poorly tuned. 1 healer is generally not quite enough and two often feels like overkill.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzwei View Post
    It's very possible to solo heal t1 and probably even some t2 stuff. The main problem I always found was that it's very easy to get behind on heals which in turn lead to a wipe. 5-man healing, imo, is somewhat poorly tuned. 1 healer is generally not quite enough and two often feels like overkill.
    Exactly! It's nice for the bosses I guess but in between...

  6. #51
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strive View Post
    I was wondering, for someone who will be healing primarily T2 with a Chloromancer in the party, what soul combination would mesh best with them? The PURE/SENT or SENT/WARDEN?

    I was just wondering if I'll get better mileage out of a nuke healing build, since the Chloro seems to have the passive healing down pat with and great party healing efficiency, and with the pure/sent build I have some burst aoe healing if needed to supplement. I did some experts (T1 though) with the sent/warden, and I just felt that the hots weren't doing anything the Chlormancer couldn't do, and that my big real contribution was controlling spikes on the tank and party which pure/sent appears to be better at, while the Chloro took the role of constant efficient healing. My biggest concern is mobility in T2s and the 3.0s cast times, I'm pretty good at being efficient with my mana.

    So what would you suggest for a five man build, running with a Chloromancer?
    I would highly suggest the Purifier/Sent build a lot more if you are running with a chloro in 5 mans although the sent/warden wouldn't be HORRIBLE it would just be easier with Sent/Purf

    Don't fret the 3.0 second cast times to much, It may seem long but they heal for about 3k-3.4k plus either a HoT or a shield. You also need to learn when to use your instant crit/Healing Breathe to porc serendipity and cast a quick heal and when to use your instant touch the light heal. Mobility isn't a huge issue in most t2s. Knowing the fights and when when you have to ACTUALLY move makes it all miles easier. Mana really isn't a problem at all in 5 mans. Use a mana pot if you really need to. Refrain from using Communion, only use it if the chloros flourish is down or if things look rough. You need to have a little patience if people drop low, do not panic. Use Divine favor before Communion as a nice aoe burst heal when people are low. Outside of that just don't get nervous when healing.

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  7. #52
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whakapapa View Post
    I understand what the talent does and what wisdom does, but I don't agree with you that +5% wisdom is worth it over improving a great healing spell such as Deluge. Let's say you have a high amount of wisdom (500), then you get 25 extra wisdom which translates into 18'ish spellpower and a tiny bit mana regen... But you lose out on either; 4 second lower cooldown on deluge or +30% extra healing on Deluge.
    Personally I find the choice easy here as Deluge is a great healing spell


    @alanis
    Its very similar to my spec, I just go further up in sentinel to pick up Serendipity
    What it comes down to is this.

    You are either speccing into 1 heal that you can use every 8 - 10 seconds for an extra 30% which may seem like a lot but lets keep in mind the primary role of a warden in a raid environment, HoTs on tanks and help cover the aoe damage. Yes tank healing is nice but a normal deluge will be more than enough to cover that especially with healing invocation mixed in.

    Your other route is to get the cooldown shaved down which in theory sounds nice but as a warden you need to make sure healing spray and soothing stream are on the target taking up atleast 3 seconds just to cast those both and for full efficiency (All 6 stacks) you will either have to cast healing current (2 seconds or 1.5 global) or healing invocation (3/1.5 seconds) With that being said you are in theory losing out on this talent cause you will not logically be able to use deluge on EVERY cooldown because of the requirements of the spell plus the environment of the raid. Not to mention if you do choose to use it every cooldown you lose one of your other better spells and HoTs in healing invocation. It's about balancing the 2 and to spec directly for one to hinder the other AND other spells and talents may not be optimal.

    95% of the between movement,mechanics and just being caught on the 1.5 globals makes each point you put into lowering the cooldown become more and more worthless.

    If you choose to go this route it's your choice and It's not something TOTALLY detrimental. I just always prefer and highly recommend to spec into something that effect everything as opposed to one spell (for healing) especially one that has a cool down

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  8. #53
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerri View Post
    Interesting stuff. I've recently started reevaluating my builds to optimize for T1's and T2s. (Currently 38 warden/ 28 Sent)

    I really appreciate the guide, great job, but I've got a more general healer question. When running a T1, is it so crazy to want to solo heal it?

    For instance: Running Kings Breach with that first boss fight. Until that point healing was a snore because my HoTs kept the tank nearly fully healed even through those trolls. But then the we got to the boss and I simply could not keep up with the damage the boss was doing to the tank, especially when the wolves came out. I threw everything I had at him and he would still die. Granted for most of us it was only our second run in, and for another a first but...is it really necessary to have a back up healer for a T1 or am I right to feel as though my build needs a little more large heals and not so reliant on HoTs when playing the only healer?

    I've created a Sent/Pur build but I won't be comfortable using that in a dungeon until I've gotten more familiar with the skills...and I dislike the casting times required, even with serendipity and healers haste.
    I have just recently come to a point where I am comfortable and can easily heal all t1s without a chloro or bard. It's not only a matter of spec but a matter of familiarity,comfort ability with your group and downright skill. I like to push myself to be able to solo heal fights but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

    For somewhat of an insight I would say when you get around 950+ Wisdom with your own wisdom buff that's around a good level to start trying to solo heal T1s. I am currently at 1007 spellpower with my buff and have been solo healing for a while so that is just my guess

    >>> My Youtube Channel <<<
    >>> Creator of the Senticar Soul <<<
    No, I am arrogant,I do not care for you're feelings and 90% of my comments our trolls. The other 20% our from the heart and our to help spread the Love and Knowledge ;)

  9. #54
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Also if you guys want to read more and see the original post head on over to

    http://www.staysmallnerds.com/showth...Environment%29

    >>> My Youtube Channel <<<
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeroProDiGY View Post
    I have just recently come to a point where I am comfortable and can easily heal all t1s without a chloro or bard. It's not only a matter of spec but a matter of familiarity,comfort ability with your group and downright skill. I like to push myself to be able to solo heal fights but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

    For somewhat of an insight I would say when you get around 950+ Wisdom with your own wisdom buff that's around a good level to start trying to solo heal T1s. I am currently at 1007 spellpower with my buff and have been solo healing for a while so that is just my guess
    I'm assuming you mean 950+ spellpower not wisdom right?

    so far I've solo healed LH and IT, neither being too hard except for final boss on LH, but that was more an issue of people not stacking to place crystals out in a good order, and/or not being in range of tank for surging flames. It's usually just easier to have a rogue/mage with a heal spec to switch for the harder fights though
    use two diff builds, 44sent/22ward, and a 34sent/32puri, and my spellpower is more like 750ish not 950 but working on the gear thing (spellcrit almost 400... seems like i keep getting crit piece drops then good spellpower/wisdom ones)

    and I agree the T1 healing seems oddly tuned. The 1 healer seeming too little, 2 being overkill for almost all the fights and esp. trash is right on the money. whenever i do a group with 2nd healer, I have to force myself to overheal so I don't get lazy, or yell at the person to run dps till boss heh.
    Last edited by Baconbits; 03-26-2011 at 05:11 PM.
    Do the herpty derp, please, keep LOSing your healers behind objects so you die.

  11. #56
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconbits View Post
    I'm assuming you mean 950+ spellpower not wisdom right?

    so far I've solo healed LH and IT, neither being too hard except for final boss on LH, but that was more an issue of people not stacking to place crystals out in a good order, and/or not being in range of tank for surging flames. It's usually just easier to have a rogue/mage with a heal spec to switch for the harder fights though
    use two diff builds, 44sent/22ward, and a 34sent/32puri, and my spellpower is more like 750ish not 950 but working on the gear thing (spellcrit almost 400... seems like i keep getting crit piece drops then good spellpower/wisdom ones)

    and I agree the T1 healing seems oddly tuned. The 1 healer seeming too little, 2 being overkill for almost all the fights and esp. trash is right on the money. whenever i do a group with 2nd healer, I have to force myself to overheal so I don't get lazy, or yell at the person to run dps till boss heh.
    Yes I do mean spellpower, sorry for that typo :P haha but yes that is a good idea of what to have.

    And yes you are right some of the T1s do seem weirdly tuned for healing but you play with what your dealt

    And yes like I said healing is dependent on you and your group, people who can minimize damage help millions

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  12. #57
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Bump and hope for Sticky

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  13. #58
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    Vero with your sent/ward build, is it viable as a new 50 going into T1's and T2's being a main healer for the group?
    All they that take the sword, shall perish with the sword.

  14. #59
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wenwu View Post
    Vero with your sent/ward build, is it viable as a new 50 going into T1's and T2's being a main healer for the group?
    Either build is viable for just starting off.

    As far as solo healing as a new 50 I do not recommend it at all.

    You should always be with a chloromancer until you are fairly comfortable with all your gear and your knowledge of the fights

    >>> My Youtube Channel <<<
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  15. #60
    Telaran Wenwu's Avatar
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    Alright thank you very much, with that sent/ward build, being as I have never played much into the warden spec, is there a certain macro set up I should make for certain spells? Or do you do single target skills to time your HoT's and what not?
    All they that take the sword, shall perish with the sword.

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