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Thread: An indepth look at Cleric Healing (Raid Environment)

  1. #16
    Telaran
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    I understand this is a RAID thread, but I was wondering would that warden spec do well in 5mans(t2 specifically)?

  2. #17
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strive View Post
    I understand this is a RAID thread, but I was wondering would that warden spec do well in 5mans(t2 specifically)?
    The Warden spec I posted in this thread would work AMAZING in t2s and you will have no problem healing them combined with a good group

    >>> My Youtube Channel <<<
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  3. #18
    Telaran
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    Alright thanks

  4. #19
    Plane Touched
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    To bring a bit of madness into the wonderful world of stats:

    1 WIS = 0,75 spell power and 0,33 Mana/10 seconds
    1 INT = 0,25 spell power, 1 crit rating, 10 mana
    1 crit rating is roughly 0,04% added chance to crit.

    At T1+ levels of spell power, crit rating actually is better for throughput than spell power, mathematically speaking. This is even more the case if specced into Serendipity, at which point crit rating is IMO vastly superior to spell power (speaking of secondary stats).

    Primary stats in terms of staying power:
    10 INT grant 100 mana, or one additonal HI or RF
    10 WIS grant 3,3 mana per 10 seconds, or one additional HI/RF after 5 minutes
    Shorter fights favour INT, longer fights Wisdom. Since we're talking about raiding, Wisdom wins in terms of staying power.

    Primary stats in terms of throughput:
    10 INT grant 2,5 spell power and 0,38% crit chance.
    10 Wisdom grant 7,5 spell power.
    So it's 5 spell power vs 0,38% to crit per 10 of each stat.

    So, simple napkin math:
    5 spell power will roughly add between 2 and 6 points of healing to each spell (taking Healing Grace/Healing Communion and Healing Invocation/Restorative Flame as a basis). So 5 spell power are a RNG independant linear increase to throughput. Assuming HI/RF spam, 5 spell power will increase the Cleric's throughput by roughly 0,32%, including Lasting Invocation/Ancestral Flame.
    Conversely, 0,38% to crit chance will (given that the RNG evens out over time) result in a 0,38% increased chance to get 170% healing from a spell, resulting in a roughly 0,65% throughput increase.
    This does not include Serendipty though, which will increase throughput potential even more.

    I will not rule out the possibility that I've done something completely wrong with these calculations. If so, please point out the mistakes. But it does seem as if INT is more desirable than WIS, even more so if specced into Serendipity (in which case one crit will directly increase one spell's throughput to 170% and the next one's to 200% in terms of healing/time).

    So basically, wouldn't stat priorities rather be:
    INT >= WIS > Crit Rating > Spell Power?
    Last edited by Mridc; 03-25-2011 at 05:22 PM.
    Better living through technology!
    Inventing Cleric builds is too mainstream for me.

  5. #20
    Plane Touched
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    Ah, realised I did in fact make a mistake. I stabbed in the dark a bit with a percentage based increase via spell power and simply took flat values of 2K healing/cast for the sake of simplicity. Obviously, since spell power is always a "flat", linear increase in throughput, the value of 1 spell power greatly diminishes the more spell power you already have, while crit will always scale off your current level of throughput.

    And blasted 5 minutes limit on edits
    Better living through technology!
    Inventing Cleric builds is too mainstream for me.

  6. #21
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mridc View Post
    To bring a bit of madness into the wonderful world of stats:

    1 WIS = 0,75 spell power and 0,33 Mana/10 seconds
    1 INT = 0,25 spell power, 1 crit rating, 10 mana
    1 crit rating is roughly 0,04% added chance to crit.

    At T1+ levels of spell power, crit rating actually is better for throughput than spell power, mathematically speaking. This is even more the case if specced into Serendipity, at which point crit rating is IMO vastly superior to spell power (speaking of secondary stats).

    Primary stats in terms of staying power:
    10 INT grant 100 mana, or one additonal HI or RF
    10 WIS grant 3,3 mana per 10 seconds, or one additional HI/RF after 5 minutes
    Shorter fights favour INT, longer fights Wisdom. Since we're talking about raiding, Wisdom wins in terms of staying power.

    Primary stats in terms of throughput:
    10 INT grant 2,5 spell power and 0,38% crit chance.
    10 Wisdom grant 7,5 spell power.
    So it's 5 spell power vs 0,38% to crit per 10 of each stat.

    So, simple napkin math:
    5 spell power will roughly add between 2 and 6 points of healing to each spell (taking Healing Grace/Healing Communion and Healing Invocation/Restorative Flame as a basis). So 5 spell power are a RNG independant linear increase to throughput. Assuming HI/RF spam, 5 spell power will increase the Cleric's throughput by roughly 0,32%, including Lasting Invocation/Ancestral Flame.
    Conversely, 0,38% to crit chance will (given that the RNG evens out over time) result in a 0,38% increased chance to get 170% healing from a spell, resulting in a roughly 0,65% throughput increase.
    This does not include Serendipty though, which will increase throughput potential even more.

    I will not rule out the possibility that I've done something completely wrong with these calculations. If so, please point out the mistakes. But it does seem as if INT is more desirable than WIS, even more so if specced into Serendipity (in which case one crit will directly increase one spell's throughput to 170% and the next one's to 200% in terms of healing/time).

    So basically, wouldn't stat priorities rather be:
    INT >= WIS > Crit Rating > Spell Power?
    You are right and wrong at the same time and I thank you for the math.

    Dependent on what you spec it is debatable. With purifier though you need to remember wisdom will be favored a bit more due to the 5% wisdom increase and also each HoT will scale better with all the SP and your ancestral shield will cover more because its 60% of SP and wisdom will give more. But at the same time with increased crit you can get more Crit HoT ticks its a little RNG and also a little bit of what your numbers stand at but then again with all the crits it might come to a waste you might over lap serendipitys.


    At this stage of the game you may have a case but when the numbers start getting bigger it will come more in to light.

    I encourage the math and I am always currently testing it. If you could help by providing me with better numbers,spreadsheets ,parse I will highly appreciate it. I too raw in my head numbers and priority when it comes to it. I am not a huge theorycrafter or number guy so I appreciate all the work and help.

    And I caught your edit. You are very much right on that issue as well.
    Last edited by VeroProDiGY; 03-25-2011 at 05:30 PM.

    >>> My Youtube Channel <<<
    >>> Creator of the Senticar Soul <<<
    No, I am arrogant,I do not care for you're feelings and 90% of my comments our trolls. The other 20% our from the heart and our to help spread the Love and Knowledge ;)

  7. #22
    Soulwalker
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    HUGE thumbs up from me, well said and explained, 9.5/10

    Tetix,
    Icewatch

  8. #23
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetix View Post
    HUGE thumbs up from me, well said and explained, 9.5/10

    Tetix,
    Icewatch
    Thanks for the approval.

    Why not.5 more.

    Tips are appreciated

    >>> My Youtube Channel <<<
    >>> Creator of the Senticar Soul <<<
    No, I am arrogant,I do not care for you're feelings and 90% of my comments our trolls. The other 20% our from the heart and our to help spread the Love and Knowledge ;)

  9. #24
    Soulwalker
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    Nice back-of-the-envelop math, Mridc, too. I will try and see myself some of the above numbers. And maybe post again this week.

    @VeroProdigy

    Lol mate The -0.5 is due to the fact that it is still a first draft of a very good guide. I really liked it, but what you could add is more info on stat choices (as you already plan on doing), maybe rotations (as replied to someone that asked you), emergency situations (what is the most effective cooldown to pop first) etc.

    Last edited by Tetix; 03-25-2011 at 06:05 PM.

  10. #25
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeroProDiGY View Post
    You are right and wrong at the same time and I thank you for the math.

    Dependent on what you spec it is debatable. With purifier though you need to remember wisdom will be favored a bit more due to the 5% wisdom increase and also each HoT will scale better with all the SP and your ancestral shield will cover more because its 60% of SP and wisdom will give more. But at the same time with increased crit you can get more Crit HoT ticks its a little RNG and also a little bit of what your numbers stand at but then again with all the crits it might come to a waste you might over lap serendipitys.


    At this stage of the game you may have a case but when the numbers start getting bigger it will come more in to light.

    I encourage the math and I am always currently testing it. If you could help by providing me with better numbers,spreadsheets ,parse I will highly appreciate it. I too raw in my head numbers and priority when it comes to it. I am not a huge theorycrafter or number guy so I appreciate all the work and help.

    And I caught your edit. You are very much right on that issue as well.
    It's 3am over here, so my head isn't as attentive haha

    Anyway, you're right about the 5% increased Wisdom AND of course I forgot about the 5% increased spell power from Sentinel as well. As I said, this is very much simplified. The basic notion isn't far off though. I was quite shocked to see how much INT actually benefits us. And how little our regeneration from Wisdom actually is

    Anyway, forgot to thank you for the guide as well. Good read
    Better living through technology!
    Inventing Cleric builds is too mainstream for me.

  11. #26
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the comments and concerns and I will try to get on top of the math.

    But have fun and good luck and keep it bumped

    please 5 star and ask for it to be stickied

    >>> My Youtube Channel <<<
    >>> Creator of the Senticar Soul <<<
    No, I am arrogant,I do not care for you're feelings and 90% of my comments our trolls. The other 20% our from the heart and our to help spread the Love and Knowledge ;)

  12. #27
    Soulwalker
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    Awesome post. Ill definitley try out these macros and builds. On a side note: glad to see you booted that warfront afk cancer named megatf from your guild. That Guy needs to get banned

  13. #28
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trandt View Post
    Awesome post. Ill definitley try out these macros and builds. On a side note: glad to see you booted that warfront afk cancer named megatf from your guild. That Guy needs to get banned
    No probably and we do what we can

    >>> My Youtube Channel <<<
    >>> Creator of the Senticar Soul <<<
    No, I am arrogant,I do not care for you're feelings and 90% of my comments our trolls. The other 20% our from the heart and our to help spread the Love and Knowledge ;)

  14. #29
    Telaran
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    Sticky this post!

  15. #30
    Telaran Gentlemen's Avatar
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    Similar to my puri/sent build but I drop protection of ancestors for enraptured breath

    any particular reason you don't use it?

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