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Thread: Healing Expert Dungeons Question:

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Healing Expert Dungeons Question:

    Ok, I have a lot of experience with healing as a warden, moderate experience healing as a purifier, and little experience healing as a sentinel. Although, I have tried all the healing trees at lvl 50 and tried healing level 50 dungeons all the way through at least twice with all the healing soul trees. My favorite healing tree by far is the warden. I truly love this tree, but my guild is angry with me for not healing as either a purifier or sentinel.

    I find myself drawn to the warden tree but my guildies insist that I heal as either a purifier or sentinel and are basically forcing me to heal as one of these 2 trees. However, I want to heal as a warden because I am most comfortable with it and I feel that the healing from this tree is more than viable to do expert dungeons. I originally tried healing as a warden and when the tank fell in an expert dungeon, I took a lot of heat. I tried healing as a purifier this last week, but sometimes I simply just canít keep the tank up because he is either taking too much damage by unlucky hits or sometimes the big heal doesnít get the desperately needed crit. They still insist that itís better than warden because of spike damage, but I feel like the warden tree has plenty of healing tools to deal with spike damage. Either way I want an opinion from other healing Clerics on this matter.

    Am I wrong in thinking warden just doesnít cut it for 5 man expert dungeons?

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    51 point warden here.

    All T1's have been cleared hitting T2 tonight.

    Healing as warden in experts is actually relaxing, healing as purifier got rough for me as you had so much more to manage.

    Spec is

    51 warden/ 10 Sentinal / 5 purifier
    BTW: I don't really like this build for PVP

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser
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    Tell your guildies to stick with their own classes and stop telling you how to play.

    33 warden/33 sent here. All of the tanks in our guild prefer my build over purifier or sent heavy specs. They feel much more comfortable with my constant HoTs + big heals. Less ping-pong of the tank's life. Plus, if I get knocked back, attacked/silenced/interrupted, etc there isn't a time when the tank isn't getting heals.

    It is a hard build though since the warden HoT rotation can be easily messed up due to an unfortunate interrupt or knockback.

    I only have 2.5 'oh ****' buttons (Touch of the Light + Healing Invocation, Sentinel damage shield, and (the 0.5) healers haste) but those tend to work well enough. Also have an in-combat rez just in case someone gets 1-shotted.

    I can tell you from running expert AP last night, a sentinel or purifier spec which spams their 3s heals is going to have a TOUGH time since a good portion of the fights require the healer to move (first boss, third boss, fourth boss, fifth boss) or return to healing area (second boss). Plus those damn crab bug things interrupt you constantly, so a 3s heal is going to be interrupted multiple times.

    And with 6 HoTs on the tank (4x SS, HS, HI HoT) my deluge, a cast time of 2s, heals for more than HI
    Plus serendipity procs constantly due to refreshing HoTs and other heals.

  4. #4
    Telaran Anarok's Avatar
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    Agreed, heavy warden spec sealed the deal for me, I think I have tried no less than 8 other healing specs, mix & matching the souls and testing some posted on the forums. I am definately most comfortable as a Warden.

    I'm still in T1 content but having no issues with a support heals on some encounters.
    Last edited by Anarok; 03-25-2011 at 06:45 AM.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched Solafide's Avatar
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    I use a warden full spec, it's a great healing class. Trick is to get down the healing combos.
    To guard against spike dmg, hit the tank wth orbs, then deluge and then fire away on the hot's, he and your party will stay healed and you'll even be able to dps.

    Getting past the spike dmg is the big thing, but no class raid heals like a warden

    Sentinel fo sure is the build for tank and spank, but Warden will hold it's own, I use a warden in almost every cleric spec, either as a full or partial, IMO it's by far the best all around Cleric soul.
    "Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire" Sun Tzu

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marconos View Post
    51 point warden here.

    All T1's have been cleared hitting T2 tonight.

    Healing as warden in experts is actually relaxing, healing as purifier got rough for me as you had so much more to manage.

    Spec is

    51 warden/ 10 Sentinal / 5 purifier
    BTW: I don't really like this build for PVP
    How are you dealing with spike damage? I mean, sure I love warden but the HoTs themselves won't keep the tank up on a hard hitting boss. They did in T1, but can't in T2. Deluge (specced) is on 4s cooldown, orbs of the stream/tide are on 45s separate cooldowns, Healing current doesn't have the 'oomph' needed to keep the tank up. The only way I can think is if you're standing by the tank with your AoE heals constantly going but in T2 that is suicide. Healing grace/flame is **** IMHO.

    Plus, in T2 you HAVE to have an AOE cleanse for many bosses, which warden doesn't have.

    Here is my current spec. You may want to give it a shot for T2
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...uoqz.g0E0bstco

    Cheers!

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solafide View Post
    I use a warden full spec, it's a great healing class. Trick is to get down the healing combos.
    To guard against spike dmg, hit the tank wth orbs, then deluge and then fire away on the hot's, he and your party will stay healed and you'll even be able to dps.

    Getting past the spike dmg is the big thing, but no class raid heals like a warden

    Sentinel fo sure is the build for tank and spank, but Warden will hold it's own, I use a warden in almost every cleric spec, either as a full or partial, IMO it's by far the best all around Cleric soul.
    Maybe your Orbs are doing more healing than mine, but when each orb heals for 1k and I still am having to fire away HoTs and big heals to keep the tank up, I'm questioning your statement.

    Plus, you cast deluge before your HoTs? That pretty much negates the purpose of deluge.

    I do agree with you though on warden raid healing, both PvE and PvP.

    I don't agree with you though that sentinel is the main tank and spank build. It has a lot of nice passives and buffs and the higher root abilities are nice, but full sentinel (or close to it) seems like a waste of points to me since you need to put points into dumb tree abilities

  8. #8
    Telaran Anarok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    How are you dealing with spike damage? I mean, sure I love warden but the HoTs themselves won't keep the tank up on a hard hitting boss. They did in T1, but can't in T2. Deluge (specced) is on 4s cooldown, orbs of the stream/tide are on 45s separate cooldowns, Healing current doesn't have the 'oomph' needed to keep the tank up. The only way I can think is if you're standing by the tank with your AoE heals constantly going but in T2 that is suicide. Healing grace/flame is **** IMHO.

    Plus, in T2 you HAVE to have an AOE cleanse for many bosses, which warden doesn't have.

    Here is my current spec. You may want to give it a shot for T2
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...uoqz.g0E0bstco

    Cheers!
    great spec, but i can't live without my 36, 38, and 44 point skills respectively. you can go deep warden and still get a few oh **** buttons from sentinal. this is what i roll with and have come to be comfortable with:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...bxqtRqz.E0g00c

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
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    You should leave your guild.

    #1 Warden is by far the best healer for 5man experts
    #2 They are dumb for not knowing #1, so find a smarter guild

  10. #10
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    Maybe your Orbs are doing more healing than mine, but when each orb heals for 1k and I still am having to fire away HoTs and big heals to keep the tank up, I'm questioning your statement.

    Plus, you cast deluge before your HoTs? That pretty much negates the purpose of deluge.

    I do agree with you though on warden raid healing, both PvE and PvP.

    I don't agree with you though that sentinel is the main tank and spank build. It has a lot of nice passives and buffs and the higher root abilities are nice, but full sentinel (or close to it) seems like a waste of points to me since you need to put points into dumb tree abilities
    (time remaining/hot, #hots)

    SS always at 4 is assumed (12ss 4 hots)
    healing current (10ss 14hc 5 hots)
    deluge (8ss 12hc 5 hots)
    healing spray (6.5ss 10.5hc 12s hs 6 hots)
    deluge (2ss 6hc 8.5hs 6 hots)
    SS (12ss 4.5 hc 7hs 6 hots)
    deluge (10ss 2.5hc 5hs 6 hots)
    healing current (8ss 14hc 3hs 6 hots)
    etc., replacing spray with flood or shower when aoe healing needed
    if you keep a solid rotation down its very relaxed healing and tank won't even see many spikes, and you can always throw in orbs if they do get spiked. imo its great for running dungeons when ppl aren't new to it. if you bringing a new tank esp, or learning, sentinel tends to be more forgiving due to emergency cooldowns and the such. But raw hpm and hps, warden is pretty hard to beat once set up as long as they maintain their rotation.
    Do the herpty derp, please, keep LOSing your healers behind objects so you die.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    How are you dealing with spike damage? I mean, sure I love warden but the HoTs themselves won't keep the tank up on a hard hitting boss. They did in T1, but can't in T2. Deluge (specced) is on 4s cooldown, orbs of the stream/tide are on 45s separate cooldowns, Healing current doesn't have the 'oomph' needed to keep the tank up. The only way I can think is if you're standing by the tank with your AoE heals constantly going but in T2 that is suicide. Healing grace/flame is **** IMHO.

    Plus, in T2 you HAVE to have an AOE cleanse for many bosses, which warden doesn't have.

    Here is my current spec. You may want to give it a shot for T2
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...uoqz.g0E0bstco

    Cheers!
    Really spikes aren't a huge issue. With the warden hots you are keeping them topped up. Remember you get a massive spellpower buff to your hots from going 51 points into warden.

    Deluge + Healing Breath is about 4k healing in a very short period of time. The orbs healing on hit is great as well for recovering as you get those heals while you reapply hots etc. The other thing that is missed is you also have a 1.5sec cast heal in warden that for me hits for around 730hp with a 100 hp hot tick left over. Hitting tidal surge with a full dulge is also a very large heal and helps recover.

    Honestly though, I really don't have a ton of spike issues.

    Here are some healing values for around 860 sp that I'm seeing on the practice dummy.

    Soothing Stream x4 == 548 / tick
    Healing Spray = 186 / tick
    Healing Touch = 729 ht 104 / tick

    With just my hots running I'm healing the tank for 838 hp every 2 seconds. Add in some of those hot ticks criting (happens very often) and you have a solid heals rolling on the tank

    Mix in Deluge hitting for 1658hp / cast + Healing breath where needed for 1220 hp / cast and that is a huge amount of healing that other classes are going to have a hard time keeping up with.

    Ripple is great macroed in with SoothingStream (to start it out) for those raid damage fights where you can't take your eyes off the tank. Ripple + Soothing x 3 + Healing Spray is huge cheap raid healing.

    My numbers that I ran.

    Spamming Restorative burst (same gear, purifier spec not 51 point)
    3360 hp in 6 seconds (includes the shield)
    Warden
    4154 hp in 6 seconds (deluge x 2 + 1 hot cast for refresh)

    If you non stop cast purifiers biggest heal it can't keep up, not to mention you can't move around, no healing during silence stuns etc.

    My rotation, when I actually stick too it.

    Pre hot tank with 4 Soothing + Spray, Healing Touch lands shortly after pull .. then into rotation.
    Deluge , Soothing, Deluge, Spray, Deluge, Healing Touch, back to the start. I have yet to hit a boss that needed that level of healing. The most important part of the warden is not letting Soothing Stream fall off. The other can and it's not a huge deal. Mix in Healing Breath where needed, AE heals etc.

    Just remember, when you drop off to do that 2 sec group heal cast, you still hit the tank for 838 healing + the group heal. That is still more healing then purifier.

    Now sentinal ... I haven't ran numbers on that one, but I am really enjoying my warden at this time.
    Last edited by Marconos; 03-25-2011 at 07:22 AM.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched Kerri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarok View Post
    great spec, but i can't live without my 36, 38, and 44 point skills respectively. you can go deep warden and still get a few oh **** buttons from sentinal. this is what i roll with and have come to be comfortable with:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...bxqtRqz.E0g00c
    I can't imagine going without the 36 pt warden ability...but I'm finding that I don't really use the 38-orbs much. They cost alot of mana and I have plenty of AoE abilities as it is, I don't really feel the need for the AoE aspect of it. I much prefer that 26 pt Sentinel instant party heal, especially for 'Oh ****' moments. I have not gone deep enough into warden to get that 44pt but so far I have not had much issues healing without it...

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerri View Post
    I can't imagine going without the 36 pt warden ability...but I'm finding that I don't really use the 38-orbs much. They cost alot of mana and I have plenty of AoE abilities as it is, I don't really feel the need for the AoE aspect of it. I much prefer that 26 pt Sentinel instant party heal, especially for 'Oh ****' moments. I have not gone deep enough into warden to get that 44pt but so far I have not had much issues healing without it...
    What is great about the orbs ... you precast them before the fight. They are on a 4 minute timer. It's great to take care of those 1st couple AE hits on the group.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched Kerri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marconos View Post

    Ripple is great macroed in with SoothingStream (to start it out) for those raid damage fights where you can't take your eyes off the tank. Ripple + Soothing x 3 + Healing Spray is huge cheap raid healing.
    Please correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't Ripple hit as a group heal only for your first Soothing Stream? I didn't think you could hit with the full stack...


    Quote Originally Posted by Marconos View Post
    My rotation, when I actually stick too it.

    Pre hot tank with 4 Soothing + Spray, Healing Touch lands shortly after pull .. then into rotation.
    Deluge , Soothing, Deluge, Spray, Deluge, Healing Touch, back to the start. I have yet to hit a boss that needed that level of healing. The most important part of the warden is not letting Soothing Stream fall off. The other can and it's not a huge deal. Mix in Healing Breath where needed, AE heals etc.
    That's a lot of deluge...I have a natural aversion to casting times anyway which is what drew me to the warden, but I find I have no issue refreshing all of my HoTs and casting Deluge at the end of the rotation just the once...more mobility, less time waiting for that cast bar to finish. Just my preference of course...

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Ripple replicates and HOT spell cast while it's up.

    Heck you can cast Healing Tough and hit the entire group.

    The deluge spam is the most HPS single target I believe we can put out. I have yet to find a fight where I was that rigid on it or had enough standing around where you could actually do that. A deluge here and there covers me in most fights.

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