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Thread: Purifier Soul: it needs to be better

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    Telaran
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    Default Purifier Soul: it needs to be better

    Having raided 4/5 in Greenscale as Purifier I'd like to raise a few concerns I have with the soul. Basically, I love playing Purifier because I love tank healing and I love rotating cooldowns: it gives me some 'purpose' and 'flexibility' which I enjoy a lot! There are multiple issues with the soul though and I'd like to hopefully raise concern regarding them ... Although I expect a lot of people know them already.

    Basically the big concern is obviously the talents... Most of them are useless, but you need to throw 51 points into the tree just to make use of it's niche: absorbs. Starting there, then, let's go through the talents and see which are useless, or close next to zero useless.

    Tier 1: Spirit Guidance
    5% wisdom isn't a lot. It's actually a value that makes no difference in reality, it might be better at higher levels with more wisdom, but at current gear levels it isn't worth it simply. With a 51 point Purifier spec, with 15 points in Sentinel for additional benefits I have 408 wisdom (including the 5% wisdom) which means I'm getting around 3-4 wisdom per talent point which is rather lack luster. Especially considering the Sentinel and Warden tier 1 talents are a direct increase to healing, or mana efficiency and not an an arbritary increase. The talent should be changed so that it increases Wisdom by 2/4/6/8/10% so that it's a more noticable increase, and people can consider taking either Spirit Guidance or Aquatic Affinity (warden t1)

    Tier 2: Flame Ward
    6% armour for casting a spell is nice in PvP but for PvE it's rather useless - you're a healer, you're not getting hit by physical attacks, and even if you are, 6% armour increases my physical damage reduction from 30.27% to 31.51%. I think the talent should be changed from an armour increase on the Cleric, to a damage reduction on targets effected by heals - lasting for 5 seconds. Obviously because this is powerful, it should be reduced to 2/4% damage reduction.

    Tier 2: Healing Blessing
    It's another ability that requires you be 'attacked' - another PvP talent perhaps? Needless to say, this hardly ever sees use in PvE encounters because most of the damage can, and should be, avoided outside of passive, healable, AoEs. To make the skill better, and worth the 2 minute cooldown, I think it should be changed so that it works like Shared Recovery: you heal yourself, or create an absorption shield, when you cast a heal on another target while the buff is up. This would make the skill a proactive skill and a reactive skill.

    Tier 6: Blessing of the Flame
    This ability, for a tier 6 talent, is really, really bad. It's proc rate is almost non-existent and it should be changed: just about anything will do, personally, I think this would be a good change: "when your absorbs are fully absorbed you instantly regain 0.25/0.50% of your total mana." This would give more feel to the Purifier soul being based around absorbs, and also give something beneficial to tank healing - at the moment, Restorative Flames costs 110 mana while Healing Invocation costs 55~ mana. The difference though, is not made up by the 60% of spellpower absorb shield.

    While these are the only "glaring" issues with the Purifier soul, there are other issues ... Based around scaling. The absorb shield functions in a poor way - the absorb shields cannot critical absorb, and they shouldn't, but the scaling they recieve is very poor. 60% of spellpower, in an environment where spellpower is low, means that Purifiers (which the tree would argue are tank healers) have to gear towards pure spellpower gear, while tank healing generally benefits from a high spell crit amount. Unfortunately, in this tier of gear however, most chain pieces do not have both spell critical and spellpower on, they will generally only have 1 stat or a piece of gear will have both stats at a drastically reduced value.

    For this reason I think the absorb shield should work where the shield is created based on how much Restorative Flame fully (including overheal, and criticals) heal for. I think the number would be good if it was around 50% of the heal personally. At my level of gear (raiding, t2 gear, with 1087 spellpower) my Restorative Flame hits for 2030-2040 not including criticals or bonus healing from Enflamed Rejuvenation. 50% of 2030-2040 would be around a 1000 absorb, which would make the absorb function far more powerfully. Not only this, but it would add some synergy with talents (Fiery Blessing, Enflamed Rejuvenation, Intense Flames etc) and add some proper scaling as a result.

    Other than that ... Make Purifier better so we can shower our allies in flames.

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    Having raided 4/5 in Greenscale as Purifier I'd like to raise a few concerns I have with the soul. Basically, I love playing Purifier because I love tank healing and I love rotating cooldowns: it gives me some 'purpose' and 'flexibility' which I enjoy a lot! There are multiple issues with the soul though and I'd like to hopefully raise concern regarding them ... Although I expect a lot of people know them already.

    Basically the big concern is obviously the talents... Most of them are useless, but you need to throw 51 points into the tree just to make use of it's niche: absorbs. Starting there, then, let's go through the talents and see which are useless, or close next to zero useless.

    Tier 1: Spirit Guidance
    5% wisdom isn't a lot. It's actually a value that makes no difference in reality, it might be better at higher levels with more wisdom, but at current gear levels it isn't worth it simply. With a 51 point Purifier spec, with 15 points in Sentinel for additional benefits I have 408 wisdom (including the 5% wisdom) which means I'm getting around 3-4 wisdom per talent point which is rather lack luster. Especially considering the Sentinel and Warden tier 1 talents are a direct increase to healing, or mana efficiency and not an an arbritary increase. The talent should be changed so that it increases Wisdom by 2/4/6/8/10% so that it's a more noticable increase, and people can consider taking either Spirit Guidance or Aquatic Affinity (warden t1)

    Tier 2: Flame Ward
    6% armour for casting a spell is nice in PvP but for PvE it's rather useless - you're a healer, you're not getting hit by physical attacks, and even if you are, 6% armour increases my physical damage reduction from 30.27% to 31.51%. I think the talent should be changed from an armour increase on the Cleric, to a damage reduction on targets effected by heals - lasting for 5 seconds. Obviously because this is powerful, it should be reduced to 2/4% damage reduction.

    Tier 2: Healing Blessing
    It's another ability that requires you be 'attacked' - another PvP talent perhaps? Needless to say, this hardly ever sees use in PvE encounters because most of the damage can, and should be, avoided outside of passive, healable, AoEs. To make the skill better, and worth the 2 minute cooldown, I think it should be changed so that it works like Shared Recovery: you heal yourself, or create an absorption shield, when you cast a heal on another target while the buff is up. This would make the skill a proactive skill and a reactive skill.

    Tier 6: Blessing of the Flame
    This ability, for a tier 6 talent, is really, really bad. It's proc rate is almost non-existent and it should be changed: just about anything will do, personally, I think this would be a good change: "when your absorbs are fully absorbed you instantly regain 0.25/0.50% of your total mana." This would give more feel to the Purifier soul being based around absorbs, and also give something beneficial to tank healing - at the moment, Restorative Flames costs 110 mana while Healing Invocation costs 55~ mana. The difference though, is not made up by the 60% of spellpower absorb shield.

    While these are the only "glaring" issues with the Purifier soul, there are other issues ... Based around scaling. The absorb shield functions in a poor way - the absorb shields cannot critical absorb, and they shouldn't, but the scaling they recieve is very poor. 60% of spellpower, in an environment where spellpower is low, means that Purifiers (which the tree would argue are tank healers) have to gear towards pure spellpower gear, while tank healing generally benefits from a high spell crit amount. Unfortunately, in this tier of gear however, most chain pieces do not have both spell critical and spellpower on, they will generally only have 1 stat or a piece of gear will have both stats at a drastically reduced value.

    For this reason I think the absorb shield should work where the shield is created based on how much Restorative Flame fully (including overheal, and criticals) heal for. I think the number would be good if it was around 50% of the heal personally. At my level of gear (raiding, t2 gear, with 1087 spellpower) my Restorative Flame hits for 2030-2040 not including criticals or bonus healing from Enflamed Rejuvenation. 50% of 2030-2040 would be around a 1000 absorb, which would make the absorb function far more powerfully. Not only this, but it would add some synergy with talents (Fiery Blessing, Enflamed Rejuvenation, Intense Flames etc) and add some proper scaling as a result.

    Other than that ... Make Purifier better so we can shower our allies in flames.
    There is a lot of problems I see with this post.

    First being not all specs are meant to be played 51 points in. With that being said if you go that far into Purf you're doing it wrong.

    You should be conjoining Purifier and Sent.

    34/32/0
    Purf/Sent/Warden or something similar to that is most optimal.

    The idea of purifier is big heals with decent shields to squeeze in Hots or other vital mechanics.

    To summarize this quick here is another post I made

    You can run some deviations.

    32/34 Purf or 32 or 34 sent or Even 32/32/2.

    Has nice cooldowns and big heals also helps a bit with mana , surging flames is nice for a moving off tank or even the main tank to help top melle. Latent Blaze is a nice life saver. The instant crit,searing transfusion and Increased Crit chance all works very well with serendipity. Also the Enflamed Rejuvenation is nice to use with a Healing Invocation for more healing on the HoT. A nice mix of the Ancestral Shield,Healing Invocation HoT and the Ward of Ancestors/Healing Spray provides a nice blanket/with over heal for tanks. Also the ability to have a small Healing spray rolling is more chances for procs of Serendipity,EnflamedRej,Essences/trinkets etc.

    You have some decent aoe burst heals as well with Divine Favor and Healing Communion as well if need be.
    Also an AoE Cleanse and a full debuff clear with sterilize, Also a Battle Rez.
    Also the ability to spam Healing Flame and with the 5/5 talent can heal close to Healing Grace which makes it easier to spam for procs of Serendipity,Enflamed Rejuvenation Blessing of the Flame and any Greater essence/Trinket. Mana cost is low and its also an insta cast heal if serendipity procs to heal dps.
    With that being said the only thing that could be worked on as you said is the ancestral flame only being 60% of SP it should be at least 80 or half of the heal.
    Besides for that relook at your spec and what you get from other trees. Purifier is an amazing soul and I don't see any changes needed at all outside of the one we mentioned and that isn't even too vital

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  3. #3
    Telaran Aggressor's Avatar
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    There's no such thing as "you're doing it wrong" if you got these points here and there. That's quite subjective. I personally happen to like the stability of the overall 51 purifer too more than the split utility CD heavy 34/32. IF you follow the soul trees a lot of the talents compliment and enhance each other's effect.
    IF he's happy with it and he makes it work (4/5 raid tank healer sounds like one) he can place damn well 22 points in each tree for all I see. I agree on the reduced dmg on the target's healed ... although then it should be a higher tier since it will be accesible by easy mixtures being a tier 2. Also agree on the scaling and talents that should affect it.

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    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressor View Post
    There's no such thing as "you're doing it wrong" if you got these points here and there. That's quite subjective. I personally happen to like the stability of the overall 51 purifer too more than the split utility CD heavy 34/32. IF you follow the soul trees a lot of the talents compliment and enhance each other's effect.
    IF he's happy with it and he makes it work (4/5 raid tank healer sounds like one) he can place damn well 22 points in each tree for all I see. I agree on the reduced dmg on the target's healed ... although then it should be a higher tier since it will be accesible by easy mixtures being a tier 2. Also agree on the scaling and talents that should affect it.
    There is such a thing as you're doing it wrong.

    He CAN Play what spec he wants to but he also CAN'T Complain that the game isn't optimized for his spec that HE CHOOSES to play. Its all about Min/Maxing
    Last edited by VeroProDiGY; 03-25-2011 at 03:08 AM.

    >>> My Youtube Channel <<<
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    No, I am arrogant,I do not care for you're feelings and 90% of my comments our trolls. The other 20% our from the heart and our to help spread the Love and Knowledge ;)

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    Plane Touched Fractus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeroProDiGY View Post
    There is such a thing as you're doing it wrong.

    He CAN Play what spec he wants to but he also CAN'T Complain that the game isn't optimized for his spec that HE CHOOSES to play. Its all about Min/Maxing
    Uhm, the split builds are more for solo healing experts imo. Taking full advantage of a tree's root points in raid can be more beneficial. You have other healers which can max other trees so your raid has everything. Splitting your trees so equally means you're making some of your big heals like Hi smaller.
    Last edited by Fractus; 03-25-2011 at 03:37 AM.

  6. #6
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fractus View Post
    Uhm, the split builds are more for solo healing experts imo. Taking full advantage of a tree's root points in raid can be more beneficial. You have other healers which can max other trees so your raid has everything. Splitting your trees so equally means you're making some of your big heals like Hi smaller.
    Raw numbers don't always decide how useful something is in regards to healing.

    Cooldowns,Cast Time, Crit chance and etc all weigh heavily in Raids.

    Outside of the sp on HI you don't lose anything you can't get from Purifer (Latent Blaze = Vigilance)

    Marked By the light is essential surging flames plus it's not to useful in the first place and the huge aoe channel heal at the end is not worth it when you have communion,Divine favor and the fact you have 2 - 3 chloros in a raid. Not to mention everything you lose from purf.

    and as far as the big cooldowns deeper in the purifer tree go in theory yes they are good, but you lose a battle rez,serendipity,healing invocation etc

    >>> My Youtube Channel <<<
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    Rift Master Kor Phaeron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressor View Post
    There's no such thing as "you're doing it wrong" if you got these points here and there. That's quite subjective. I personally happen to like the stability of the overall 51 purifer too more than the split utility CD heavy 34/32. IF you follow the soul trees a lot of the talents compliment and enhance each other's effect.
    IF he's happy with it and he makes it work (4/5 raid tank healer sounds like one) he can place damn well 22 points in each tree for all I see. I agree on the reduced dmg on the target's healed ... although then it should be a higher tier since it will be accesible by easy mixtures being a tier 2. Also agree on the scaling and talents that should affect it.
    if there's a "you're doing it wrong" thing in the world, it definely is going 51 points in puri....

    Puri skills past 32 are simply....laughtable, useless, ******ed, sickening, nauseabund, vomitive. compared 1 to 1 with their sentinel equivalents, they should be enough to make a Purifier cry out of shame and desperation.

    and playing a cleric without serendipity is....monstruous.....

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeroProDiGY View Post
    Raw numbers don't always decide how useful something is in regards to healing.

    Cooldowns,Cast Time, Crit chance and etc all weigh heavily in Raids.

    Outside of the sp on HI you don't lose anything you can't get from Purifer (Latent Blaze = Vigilance)

    Marked By the light is essential surging flames plus it's not to useful in the first place and the huge aoe channel heal at the end is not worth it when you have communion,Divine favor and the fact you have 2 - 3 chloros in a raid. Not to mention everything you lose from purf.

    and as far as the big cooldowns deeper in the purifer tree go in theory yes they are good, but you lose a battle rez,serendipity,healing invocation etc
    Getting both Restorative Flames and Healing Invocation seems like a massive waste of time in my opinion. A massive, massive waste of time. The absorb shield from Restorative Flames is only ever good when you spam Restorative Flame... If you're using HI, you aren't using RF, and as such RF isn't applying an absorb shield. Other than the tank cds, going 34/32 split is just being obtuse because a 51 point sentinel can do the job just as well.

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara VeroProDiGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    Getting both Restorative Flames and Healing Invocation seems like a massive waste of time in my opinion. A massive, massive waste of time. The absorb shield from Restorative Flames is only ever good when you spam Restorative Flame... If you're using HI, you aren't using RF, and as such RF isn't applying an absorb shield. Other than the tank cds, going 34/32 split is just being obtuse because a 51 point sentinel can do the job just as well.
    A 51 sent will not get increased chance to crit every 2 minutes for serendipity procs

    A 51 sent will not get a Searing Transfusion

    A 51 sent will not get an increased 30% healing on next spell or 4% chance for next heal to cost no mana

    a 51 sent will not have a latent blaze which is much more manageable than vigiliance

    a 51 sent will not get a free crit on next heal

    a 51 sent will not get a full clear dispell

    And it is not a waste of time if you balance both RF and HI.
    Last edited by VeroProDiGY; 03-25-2011 at 05:01 AM.

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    As far as that might be true ... the 51 specs are a lot more steady and shouldn't need to resort to that many CDs and utility options. IF that playstyle is fine with you ... doesn't mean that everyone should like it and swear by it. Not like you've discovered the hot water yourself ...

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeroProDiGY View Post
    A 51 sent will not get increased chance to crit every 2 minutes for serendipity procs

    A 51 sent will not get a Searing Transfusion

    A 51 sent will not get an increased 30% healing on next spell or 4% chance for next heal to cost no mana

    a 51 sent will not have a latent blaze which is much more manageable than vigiliance

    a 51 sent will not get a free crit on next heal

    a 51 sent will not get a full clear dispell

    And it is not a waste of time if you balance both RF and HI.
    You don't need Searing Transfusion. 25% of 5000 hp isn't even an extra hit. At best it's a last resort tank CD which will general fail. Searing Transfusion really isn't a great CD by any measure.

    A 51 Sentinel can get Enflamed Rejuvenation.

    A 51 Sentinel doesn't, no, but instead has Healing Covenent every 2 minutes which is far better as it can proc prior to damage being done.

    1 free crit isn't needed when your HI heals, normally, for 2500~ and crit for 4k.

    Full clear dispell is nice, but the 45 second CD means it's rarely used ... If used at all. I can't think of any raid encounters where the tank has 3+ debuffs on him that must all be dispelled instantly, can you?

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