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Thread: Few races with many classes little choice ? E3 summary

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    Default Few races with many classes little choice ? E3 summary

    With all the infos from E3 i got some bad feeling about the races and classes system. Quick rundown how i understood the infos:
    In the video they announced 3 Races for the Defiants and 3 Races for the Guardians. Thats not really a big pool to choose from.
    4 Main classes and 4 subclasses for each mainclass on 2 Faction sides makes 32 classes.
    On the first view this looks a lot and is a lot with numbers. But spilttet up into different factions who cant interact its down to 16 classes for each faction, and 4 subclasses for each Mainclass. At the end you can have 3 classes in your char.
    I also dont understand why those 2 factions cant interact with each other faction on PVE -Servers.

    Now about the bad feelings:
    - Whats the reason why on PVE Servers the factions cant interact with each other? Its in my opinion a splitt up of the community which shouldnt be done imho. For PvP it may be ok, but for PvE ....
    - 1 class and 4 subclasses where you can get 3 subclasses into your char. This will end into 1 main class for 90 % of the chars of this class. The community will find soonish a balance for the class aka a must have setting and the most ones will follow this setup. Ok i dont know how the skilltrees will be set, for example, if you can max out all 3 skilltrees or if there is an limit of skillpoints you can set.

    After my first thought about wow, 32 classes is great, it comes down to hmmm, looks more then it actually you can choose.
    Am i wrong ?

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara Osho's Avatar
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    I agree on the PvE interactions between the factions. But it's not set in stone yet.

    And sure it's always cool to have as many races as possible. I'm sure they know that too and plan to expand the races with further Add-ons. They just want a solid/polished start/release.

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    Ascendant Elladar's Avatar
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    There will be 51 points to spend across 3 soul trees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osho View Post
    They just want a solid/polished start/release.
    Solid start means better future!
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    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    I am not to worried about a limited amount of races, but I am not someone who cares a lot about looks in the first place. I can however totally understand that some players want to look unique and part of that is race. If you have 3 races per side you are going to encounter a lot of similiar races. Then again by what we know so far it looks RIFT will have quite a lot of custimization of the player model but with a few limits (as mentioned the body shape).

    The souls don't really worry me, some articles mention 32 classes as if they are set in stone, on IRC and video interview we sometimes hear that exact numbers are not known yet. I personally would not be suprised if its not 100% sure yet and that time will tell.

    The scenario you write out could become a problem but I do think (especially with them hammering on class customiation) that we will have plenty of options and souls to choose from. Aslong as souls are deverse and use different game mechanics combining then can enable players to really play the way they want.

    That is my hope atleast.

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

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    Prophet of Telara Fozzik's Avatar
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    My understanding is that 16 classes is what you'll have to choose from at the start, but there will be many more souls available in the world that you will gain by drops or quest rewards (please god make them bind on pickup!). So although you can only choose from 4 subsclasses at character creation, by the time you reach high level and have three soul tree slots available, you'll probably have more souls in your possession to choose from.

    I'm guessing the total number of souls within each calling is what they have not set in stone yet. Basically each soul is a simplified class... a tree of talents and abilities. They probably have a team of folks working on just creating more and more souls to place in the world, and I'll bet they ship with over 100.

    My concern is obviously with the uniqueness of each soul and the overall balance. I don't know if there's any way at all that they can balance all possible combinations of souls. The only thing I can think is that they are using some complex formulas for the overall "effectiveness" of each soul and combination of souls, which to me means that the uniqueness is going to suffer. The more souls they add, the more danger there is of things getting cookie-cutter. It will be one of the most interesting things to see when we get to test-drive the system.
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    Shield of Telara Caracarn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elladar View Post
    Solid start means better future!
    My words exactly!

    I still hope that at least on some PvE servers Guardians and Defiant may interact, but that remains to be seen. I also would wish for one or two mre starting races, but then, see the quote above. More starting races mean more lore and background story, even more starting zines, if you want to do it properly. In that case, less quantity, more quality for me!
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    Champion of Telara Ancient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loorn View Post
    With all the infos from E3 i got some bad feeling about the races and classes system. Quick rundown how i understood the infos:
    In the video they announced 3 Races for the Defiants and 3 Races for the Guardians. Thats not really a big pool to choose from.
    4 Main classes and 4 subclasses for each mainclass on 2 Faction sides makes 32 classes.
    On the first view this looks a lot and is a lot with numbers. But spilttet up into different factions who cant interact its down to 16 classes for each faction, and 4 subclasses for each Mainclass. At the end you can have 3 classes in your char.
    I also dont understand why those 2 factions cant interact with each other faction on PVE -Servers.

    Now about the bad feelings:
    - Whats the reason why on PVE Servers the factions cant interact with each other? Its in my opinion a splitt up of the community which shouldnt be done imho. For PvP it may be ok, but for PvE ....
    - 1 class and 4 subclasses where you can get 3 subclasses into your char. This will end into 1 main class for 90 % of the chars of this class. The community will find soonish a balance for the class aka a must have setting and the most ones will follow this setup. Ok i dont know how the skilltrees will be set, for example, if you can max out all 3 skilltrees or if there is an limit of skillpoints you can set.

    After my first thought about wow, 32 classes is great, it comes down to hmmm, looks more then it actually you can choose.
    Am i wrong ?
    your math is off. All classes are available to both races as per this interview:

    There are two factions in Rift, the Guardians and the Defiant. The Guardians were reborn by the Gods, and strive to rebuild the world as a holy place. The Defiant follow a more technology-oriented path, choosing to make their own destiny. Each faction has access to every type of class, though for certain classes factions must achieve a higher level in order to unlock them.

    thats from the gaming union review

    I would like to see one or 2 more races as well, but I'm not overly concerned by it. I'm sure they will get to adding new ones in an update.

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    Ascendant Hanlo's Avatar
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    I don't mind starting with few races. It is much easier to add a new race than a new class.

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    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanlo View Post
    I don't mind starting with few races. It is much easier to add a new race than a new class.
    Euhm? where did you get this impression? Art / Lore / Starting Area's / Quests line an entire new race might be less programming work but I think if you want to do it right you are talking about a much larger time commitment. I also have the impression adding souls will be something TRION can do quite easily.

    Atleast that is what I am hoping for that as the game grows and expands we would see souls added over time.

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

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    Ascendant Hanlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalbuir View Post
    Euhm? where did you get this impression? Art / Lore / Starting Area's / Quests line an entire new race might be less programming work but I think if you want to do it right you are talking about a much larger time commitment. I also have the impression adding souls will be something TRION can do quite easily.

    Atleast that is what I am hoping for that as the game grows and expands we would see souls added over time.

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

    It's much easier to balance a race than a class.

    Want a Melee Mage? Support the Theurgist!

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    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanlo View Post
    It's much easier to balance a race than a class.
    Balance is just a matter of testing and tweaking abilities dont have to reprogram or redesign anything. It's a proces that isnt done in a day but over time and a continieus circle. It's a tiny part of making a class if you ask me its the last part and something that probably is only really done after it's been fully completed and in some cases already launched.

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

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    Champion Kindair's Avatar
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    Don't forget, players will restar their character/make an alt for a new class, but they won't restart their character for a new race. If I'm a halforc rogue, I will probably choose to remain like that. I won't go and change to a halflinng rogue because they added it. With Trion's system, new classes are so much easier to achieve. People don't have to reroll to begin with. They just change souls.

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    Rift Disciple Phoenix_79's Avatar
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    In reguard to the OP, I don't mind that the two sides can't chat it up with one another on PVE servers. I also wouldn't mind if they could but I understand the reasoning behind not allowing it.

    As far as the cookie cutter situation, I am a little worried about it getting out of hand as well but with the amount of combonations allowed I hope it will deter it a bit. That being said, I typically play my class the way I want to and I will continue to do so in Rift even if it means having to sit out of raids or groups. Although I have only experienced this in one game (WoW) when I was tanking using a blood spec'd DK back when they were released. I used to catch crap all the time because I wasn't frost until the end of a raid or group and they realized it wasn't an issue.

    Here's to new beginings ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kindair View Post
    Don't forget, players will restar their character/make an alt for a new class, but they won't restart their character for a new race. If I'm a halforc rogue, I will probably choose to remain like that. I won't go and change to a halflinng rogue because they added it. With Trion's system, new classes are so much easier to achieve. People don't have to reroll to begin with. They just change souls.
    Unless they dont have an racial ability, but i saw this will happen, then you prolly want to reroll a char.

    Maybe i am to much excited about the VG races and classes to see this as a step back in freedom of char creation
    If all classes can be used from both factions its ok, then there are 8 classes for each mainclass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elladar View Post
    There will be 51 points to spend across 3 soul trees.
    As far i know you need to spent 51 killpoints to finish 1 Skilltree, not 51 points for 3 skilltrees at max number to spent.
    Think i need to reread some thing s about the additional souls you can find in the world, i prolly missed some infos it seems. I thought you can add just the souls you can achieve at start and with higher level you can unlock just the number of souls. Maybe we talk about different things. Souls = Skills , then you are right; souls as class option, i dont think its right that you can find it in the world.
    Last edited by Loorn; 06-21-2010 at 07:45 AM.

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    Champion 13moons's Avatar
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    my guess is that this is a method to maximize the development time they have.this would allow a greater focus on aspects of the design which they feel are more important. takes much more time to create the cities, quests, lore, models and etc. for each new race. .

    .. kinda redundant.

    fewer races at launch and a more robust overall game would be just fine with me.

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