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Thread: General tanking question

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default General tanking question

    Hello there Rift Forums, figured I'd break my forum virginity by posting my biggest concern for when I start tomorrow;

    Whether to play a tank or not.

    I've played a tank in all of my other MMO's, but that was ONLY because of one reason;

    It was always possible to see if you were holding aggro on ALL of the mobs you were supposed to be tanking, never difficult to tell if you were holding aggro or not.

    I played a mage in the beta so I never got a chance to see if they had done anything with the interface in order to make tanking less annoying, because nothing is worse as a tank than not being sure if you have aggro on all of your mobs due to a bad interface!

    So, my question is, how is it? Were the necessary steps made to make multi-target tanking not a hassle in Rift?

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
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    There is nothing on the UI to inform you which mobs you have agro on or how high on the agro list for each mob you are.

    The only things you can do are turn on target of target and make sure you are the one it is targeting at all times, pay attention to the health of others in the party to watch for any sudden drops in their health and have good communication with your party, making sure they tell you when they are being hit upon.

    Personally, I prefer it this way, makes it more interesting. But if that isn't what you want you could always roll a Cleric or Rogue, play as either healer or DPS and should you ever feel the need to tank you can with those two callings. Of course you could do the same with a Warrior, but it only has DPS/Tank options, the others are more flexible.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    I moved my party frames near the center of the screen on my tank just to help me notice if anyone is losing health.

    Tanks definitely need to be paying attention and watching what's going on. If you're just sitting back, relaxing and having a brew you may run into problems.

  4. #4
    Telaran Semjaza's Avatar
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    Tanking is not for the lazy player here.

    IF you are not comfortable cycling your targets and dropping taunts/agro locking abilities on them then you should not roll a tank in this game. Scroll your camera out, if a mob runs toward a player in your group then drop your rescue/agro lock ability to get it back.

    I really enjoy this type of tanking as it makes me feel more involved in what is going on. I been using this method for many years and hated that VG added that stupid agro window of each encounter in your vicinity. hate meters are also horrible.

    I hope Rift never brings any of these mechanics in game. Tanking is not rocket science, it is just about knowing how to manage situations, being prepapred for the unexpected and keep group members alive.

    Sometimes a gnome needs to be sacrificed, but /meh.
    Last edited by Semjaza; 02-28-2011 at 01:00 PM.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semjaza View Post
    Tanking is not for the lazy player here.

    IF you are not comfortable cycling your targets and dropping taunts/agro locking abilities on them then you should not roll a tank in this game. Scroll your camera out, if a mob runs toward a player in your group then drop your rescue/agro lock ability to get it back.

    I really enjoy this type of tanking as it makes me feel more involved in what is going on. I been using this method for many years and hated that VG added that stupid agro window of each encounter in your vicinity. hate meters are also horrible.

    I hope Rift never brings any of these mechanics in game. Tanking is not rocket science, it is just about knowing how to manage situations, being prepapred for the unexpected and keep group members alive.

    Sometimes a gnome needs to be sacrificed, but /meh.
    There's a fine line between a poorly implemented tanking interface and "being too lazy to work with the current one". I was the main tank for <A Team> of Stonemaul who were world 9th at the time in terms of WoW raiding, I'm not trying to toot my own horn, I'm simply trying to prove the point that a truly "good" tank does need a functional UI, especially when trying to hold aggro on 3+, 5+, 10+ mobs at a time.

  6. #6
    Telaran Semjaza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latros View Post
    There's a fine line between a poorly implemented tanking interface and "being too lazy to work with the current one". I was the main tank for <A Team> of Stonemaul who were world 9th at the time in terms of WoW raiding, I'm not trying to toot my own horn, I'm simply trying to prove the point that a truly "good" tank does need a functional UI, especially when trying to hold aggro on 3+, 5+, 10+ mobs at a time.
    If you were tanking in WOW then I understand "YOU" will need a functioning third party type UI to tank more then 2 mobs. WOW tanking is easy mode imo of most any other game out there. Took me 2-3 months to go from new account to HM WotLK tanking. And it was a joke, so I left that game, and I was tanking things I was told my GS would not allow. Tanking in WOW is not an honor it is a joke, sorry.

    BTW, the only UI features I used from Curse was bags, AH and the DPS meter.

    I have played through alpha of Rift and have had little to no problem tanking more then 6-10mobs with my builds, using the deafult UI here.

    Not trying to "Toot my own Horn" either, but I tanked for one of the top WW (non-oncall list guilds) in EQ2, and was interviewed for Beckett Massively MMO Magazine in July 2009. Jokael- Guardian EQ2. By far more complex raiding then you would ever of faced in WOW.

    What I am trying to say is, you do not seem like you are confident in your ability to tank without an addon/agro meter capability. This is something you need to work on for yourself. As tanks and Main Tanking for that matter, we are expected to lead by example. Put fourth the hard work and keep your mind clear of outside distractions while tanking hard crap/raids, then you will be fine.

    I am sure you put a ton of time into your raids in WOW and all, and that is not something to be looked down upon, but if you truely want to be one of the better tanks in any game you should play every MMO game out there, even if it only for a couple months. Because each MMO out there has a different tanking style and each one will only make you more confident with each encounter you come across in any game.

    I wish you luck and am sure if you decide to tank in this game it will be a challenge at some point, just step back and relax, and know you have it in you to get the job done without an add on/UI feature. And when you do, the rewards are so much better.

    Ohh one more thing, never go off on your healers in vent for a wipe. **** happens, it's a game. last thing you want is 4-6 healers not showing up for the next raid :P
    Last edited by Semjaza; 02-28-2011 at 01:49 PM.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    aggro-meter for tanking? Is this a joke?

    For someone with EQ2 or Lineage2 experience that would be like... LOL, OMG, LOL... I'm speechless.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple darkwarrior42's Avatar
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    Here's how to tell if you lose aggro: if the mob you're fighting suddenly runs away and starts attacking someone else, you just lost aggro :-P

    *shrug* It's not hard to tank at all, in general, it just takes a bit of effort. AoE tanking with certain souls can be tricky at the lower levels, but not impossible, it just takes some attention (and a bit of tab targeting at times).

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Erhnam's Avatar
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    If for bad interface you meat "threat meter", learn to play with your own eyes and skills

  10. #10
    Champion Stupot's Avatar
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    There is alot to be said for DPS not messing up here too, Tanks in Rift have + threat abilities and + threat talents in their trees, DPS tend to have - threat talents in their trees.

    As a DPS there are time when I pull aggro due to naughty cleave crits of sometimes being too lazy (shamed) to attack the tank's target because I feel this other mob is more important, on such occasions (without vent up) I will attack something else and tank's splash damage means the mob will ignore me shortly, or if the mob has ranged abilities I move my position in such away to show that the mobs projectiles are hitting me (ie: not having the tank between us) - the tank then picks up this mob with ease and I hang my little dwarven head in shame.

    As a tank I haven't found any issues, I know a gentleman mentioned WoW tanking is easy, tbf yeah it is/was especially with nameplate addons but I don't find Rift much harder, all tanks have some form of AoE if specced correctly and most of the dungeon can be zerged the only trick is that mobs hit your healer/clothies/leathers for a piss lot more than they hit you (400% odd) so when that mob runs off you better flippin get it back pronto.

    The sense of urgency and the actual threat is the only real defining difference between WoW tanking and Rift tanking - suffice to say you will never be bored doing it, one thing I enjoy about this game - there is always something to press and test.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoktar View Post
    aggro-meter for tanking? Is this a joke?

    For someone with EQ2 or Lineage2 experience that would be like... LOL, OMG, LOL... I'm speechless.
    EQ2 has an agro meter...

    Rift has old skool tanking!

  12. #12
    flk
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    In Rift you can make an AoE tank build using reaver and utilizing his DoTs spreading to nearby targets, which with increased threat generation talent for reaver's dots makes a lot of agro. Also this is paired with paladins threat increase. If you, from time to time, use AoE attack and keep DoTs all the time you are fine and not even AoE spam or focused DPS on not the target you currently hit can take a single mob off you. It's all about the way you play.
    Rift gives you the opportunity to have more tanking builds. Which is awesome.

    It's all about who you want to be and how you want to play ...

  13. #13
    Telaran Kaupus's Avatar
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    Rolled reaver and not looking back. Not had this much fun tanking ever.

    Meat is murder, tasty, tasty murder.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semjaza View Post
    Tanking is not for the lazy player here.
    I'm very happy that you're great at tanking, I get a lot of satisfaction out of being a decent tank so I can't fault you for being proud, but asking for better UI design here is far from being lazy. There's just no way to tell exactly how much attention a mob needs. Going with my gut usually works out fine, but I'm tanking with uneven level/gear players who are still getting used to their various Souls so it gets messy at times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Semjaza View Post
    Not trying to "Toot my own Horn" either, but I tanked for one of the top WW (non-oncall list guilds) in EQ2, and was interviewed for Beckett Massively MMO Magazine in July 2009. Jokael- Guardian EQ2. By far more complex raiding then you would ever of faced in WOW.
    Maybe that puts you too far ahead of the curve to judge this? When tanking at that level using half the elements on the UI makes you lazy. You should be tracking cooldowns in your head so the CD displays are gone. All your abilities should be bound (and you should know what too) so the action bars are gone. If you're not using voice chat you might as well not be there, so no more chat panel.

    If you don't like a UI feature turn it off. Refuse to raid with anyone who uses it. That's you choice. But what's the harm in having something on the UI that helps ME judge threat levels?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkian View Post
    I'm very happy that you're great at tanking, I get a lot of satisfaction out of being a decent tank so I can't fault you for being proud, but asking for better UI design here is far from being lazy. There's just no way to tell exactly how much attention a mob needs. Going with my gut usually works out fine, but I'm tanking with uneven level/gear players who are still getting used to their various Souls so it gets messy at times.



    Maybe that puts you too far ahead of the curve to judge this? When tanking at that level using half the elements on the UI makes you lazy. You should be tracking cooldowns in your head so the CD displays are gone. All your abilities should be bound (and you should know what too) so the action bars are gone. If you're not using voice chat you might as well not be there, so no more chat panel.

    If you don't like a UI feature turn it off. Refuse to raid with anyone who uses it. That's you choice. But what's the harm in having something on the UI that helps ME judge threat levels?
    What is the harm in you learning how to play without it?

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