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Thread: Tanking - actually having to block attacks....

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Kitsu's Avatar
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    Default Tanking - actually having to block attacks....

    What I mean by this title would be as playin a tank, you could hold a block stance when the creature would attack, and than come back out of the block/defensive stance and swing a few times, pull off a dps combo, and than time the next attack.

    I am thinking of a concept where the tank has to be proactive inorder to be the best tank possible. The tank would have to recognize movements and animations, as well as possibly attacks that he can just absorb the full damage and not break his dps, and other that he simply couldn't take it all so he would have to perform a block/defensive stance till the duration of the attack was complete.

    I am also thinking, and I know you are to....what about agro generation and holding agro and not falling off the hate list. I would probably have to ask the DEVs to include some hate bonus to blocked attacks. You could think of it as the frustration factor to improve agro. I know nothing pisses me off more than performing a huge attack that is the final move in my chain and the mob dodges it or my spell is fully resisted.

    This would add a huge mechanic into the game, and I think would remove the dreaded persona of tank and spank. Just imagine being a tank and having to be constantly aware of the creatures animations, maximizing your chances to block and going back and forth between attacking and blocking attacks. I know I might actually roll a tank just to play with this mechanic. Totally situational, and totally proactive.

    P.S. I can see how some of you think this is actually reactive, but I am thinking that the creatures animations are not going to let you clearly see a huge attack coming, but something the tank needs to be constantly aware of and if he thinks an attack is coming he needs to block or choose to eat the damage and continue to dps.

    Anyone like this idea? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

  2. #2
    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Very interesting idea's some MMO's have tried with 100% block abilieties with a duration of 60 seconds and 1 hits on cooldowns but in all fairness it always rather failed badly. What would probably work is if you have a ability that you can hold down to raise your shield blocking a portion of the dmg giving a small agro over time BUT not as much as you where swinging and dpsing yourself.

    This would enable the timing feature you mention in the above post, however balance will be mega important here. As soon as you come to a point where you can generate agro first 50% then only raise shield well then it becomes worse than tank and spank.

    However if balanced properly you can do some very unique things with this, imagine a simple raid boss where he does mederate healable dmg the first 20% to the tank, then the next 20% he does insane flurries of attachs overwhelmning the defenses of the tank. He will be forced to raise his shield if he want to survive and even then the boss breaks portions of his defense.

    Healers still have a hard time keeping the tank up in defensive stance, if he breaks is defence he will be killed instantly. As the next 20% of hp passes the boss becomes exhausted and the tank is able to get hits in again.

    This creates a situation where tank needs to really burn their agro at the times he can, and dps needs to make dicisions on burn as hard as possible with a tank which is almost at a standstill of agro generation, or burn slow but span the 20% out over a longer period.

    I think this enables some VERY unique raid and group experiences

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Fayde's Avatar
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    Its good on paper but might fail due to lag it can look like the mob/player is about to hit so you go to counter it with block and see it hit you any way since due to lag it had all ready hit before you sore it coming.

    It would be nice to have but like i said due to lag it could be fairly deadly to a xp/raid party with a mall bit of lag miss time bang tank get's arse whopping following by the healer before you know what going on.

    That been said its worth trying even could work wounders could fail but we will not know till it is put in place and tested.
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    Rift Chaser Aistis's Avatar
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    wrong game tbh.. you should check out tera.. but if ur not into lesbian chicks as main selling point.. i doubt you find it much attractive as a game , if rift would be inventing new combat system we would probably knew by now
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    Champion of Telara Ancient's Avatar
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    I've said it a hundred times I like DAoC's block mechanic out of all the games I've played.

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    Rift Disciple Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    I've said it a hundred times I like DAoC's block mechanic out of all the games I've played.
    Can you elaborate?

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    When I think of blocking I think of the nightmares of blocking Bonecrush from Fengrot with Foeman...how I hate blocking now..just let me mitigate the damn thing!

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    Shield of Telara Krassus's Avatar
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    Blocking one attack was cute but it was fluff. I thought it was pointless and silly you had to have a caster watching Fengrot and then counting down AND THEN looking for his arms to go up and praying an auto attack or AE didnt hit in the .001 secs before BC.

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    Champion MuckyPup's Avatar
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    Blocking ala Oblivion!

    I think it would be cool, but my mind is so slow these days, and most of my raiding was done with a little alcohol added, I doubt I would have ever been a raiding MT if I had to block manually.

  10. #10
    Champion of Telara Ancient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
    Can you elaborate?
    Sure, Blocking % was based on your Dex stat and your spec into Shields (most stopped at 42 for Slam 9 sec stun) Small shield would stop 1 attack, medium shield could stop 2 and large shields 3 attacks at once. You had an ability call guard which blocked attacks against a selected group mate, Intercept which caused you to take a hit for a group mate taking dmg, and one other I can't remember the name of that we placed on healers to limit healer aggro. Block attacks were just that Blocked and did no dmg. Shields were a functional weapon not just something to carry around for AC.

    Having a second tank in the group was a good thing since you could set a guard circle.

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    Rift Disciple Zephel's Avatar
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    While I'm sure there's tons of good mechanics on how to incorporate block into a character via stats, I also believe that this is the wrong type of game to put in features that make you hold a certian key to block. Kinda reminds me of Street Fighter....... good game...anywho, yeah I would not be a huge fan of having to hold a key or what not to block.

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    Plane Walker Evereghalo's Avatar
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    I just do not see it working like that.

    Something else could work that is a play on that.

    I just think it would detract from the tanking role in that I like boss fights that are not tank and spanks, that need swaps, pick ups, kiting. So having to turn your back to get it done just seems like it would keep them from making very dynamic fights.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evereghalo View Post
    I just do not see it working like that.

    Something else could work that is a play on that.

    I just think it would detract from the tanking role in that I like boss fights that are not tank and spanks, that need swaps, pick ups, kiting. So having to turn your back to get it done just seems like it would keep them from making very dynamic fights.
    Hmm I think you misinterpid the above posters intentions, the fact that you block should have drawbacks aswell and would in my oppinion not exclude tank swaps. I think it would add something to tanking rather than take something away and make it tank and spank.

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Xaices's Avatar
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    or maybe parry, dodge, and block are a tiered system mechanic. What I mean is that you keep the base stat to % defense i.e.

    1 str = 2.2 block
    1 dex = 2.2 dodge

    or what ever the system math equation is. Call these combat reflexes if you will, where during combat system controls muscle memory so during any encounter you have % chance to "automatically" defend. Then the next tier is play inter action where player has defensive abilities they can use in needed situations.. sounds like any normal game mechanic, well it really is in a sense. Its done in just about every game. But most games don't make it visually believing.

    Just make those abilities that you have on your hot bar have more a animated sense of protection.. I think there is a GW2 trailer out there where a tank class actually hunkers down behind their shield when a lizard beast breaths fire. I am sure this is not an automated ability but a user interface ability.

    So instead of just tossing up a 100% dmg Ward and and continuing on your character actually animates a defensive posture or maneuver.

    I would still keep the automated base defenses, and build on the player activated defense system not only in the form of short duration buffs, wards, etc.. but in animated actions that are visually believing.
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  15. #15
    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaices View Post
    or maybe parry, dodge, and block are a tiered system mechanic. What I mean is that you keep the base stat to % defense i.e.

    1 str = 2.2 block
    1 dex = 2.2 dodge

    or what ever the system math equation is. Call these combat reflexes if you will, where during combat system controls muscle memory so during any encounter you have % chance to "automatically" defend. Then the next tier is play inter action where player has defensive abilities they can use in needed situations.. sounds like any normal game mechanic, well it really is in a sense. Its done in just about every game. But most games don't make it visually believing.

    Just make those abilities that you have on your hot bar have more a animated sense of protection.. I think there is a GW2 trailer out there where a tank class actually hunkers down behind their shield when a lizard beast breaths fire. I am sure this is not an automated ability but a user interface ability.

    So instead of just tossing up a 100% dmg Ward and and continuing on your character actually animates a defensive posture or maneuver.

    I would still keep the automated base defenses, and build on the player activated defense system not only in the form of short duration buffs, wards, etc.. but in animated actions that are visually believing.
    Sounds like a good system to me, I think your thought about the block animation on abilties beeing too general in many games is spot on. Especially animations like hunkering down and hiding behind a shield is visually impressive.

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

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