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Thread: Multiple souls = multiclass?

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    Rift Disciple Zephel's Avatar
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    Default Multiple souls = multiclass?

    Please post your thoughts on this. With the release of information on multiple souls, I'm concerned. Let me explain:

    Our first example is a Nightblade with another soul of a Ranger. Considering these are both in the same root class speculates that you may only be able to have souls from your root class. While I like this idea better than classes from other roots, it also kills the *uniqueness* of being say, a Nightblade.

    The other thought is partially mentioned already, having a multi-soul from other class roots. A light example is a mage-warrior. I REALLY hope this isn't the plan, because it'll honestly turn me off quite a bit from the game. While the soul trees are a perfect idea to make each person unique, giving them 3 soul options total is a bit much. Everyone at that point becomes a jumble of various skills making no one really unique. It also proves from most games who've attempted similar things to be devastating. Class balance becomes very difficult, and there are very specific build combinations that are *prime* at any given time.

    Third, even if this idea is multi-classing and it is set in stone, is it even viable to be a purist? I, for one, like being one class. I like being good at that class. If I opt not to multi-class, is that even an option? Is there benefit to that?

    I could go on and on about my thoughts on this, and my standpoint is *PLEASE no multi-classing.* Others thoughts?

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    Champion Kindair's Avatar
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    the multi class system is unique and very interesting. To prevent too many problems, they have locked the souls to archtype only. So a rogue can take a ranger for example, but not a cleric or a druid or a warrior.

    There is a skill at 51 points, we don't know yet how good that one is, but a purist class shouldn't suffer too much. You'll probably have less skills in the end, but you should have better skills. It's all waiting for now.

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    Rift Disciple TemetNosce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephel View Post
    Third, even if this idea is multi-classing and it is set in stone, is it even viable to be a purist? I, for one, like being one class. I like being good at that class. If I opt not to multi-class, is that even an option? Is there benefit to that?
    I don't agree with your other points at all but this one has been preying on my mind a bit as well, except in a slightly different way. I'm wondering what about people who want to focus on one type of ability. What about people who want the highest pure DPS, or defense, healing, buffing, etc? Are they going to setup souls for them, with the best abilities buried way at the back where it costs to many points for multiclassing to reach them? Or will you need to take multiple complementary souls to boost those abilities above the norm? Or is they entire idea of effectiveness in a specific area falling by the wayside, and instead classes are only being designed around their flavor?

    To be honest, I'm probably worried about nothing, but we'll see I suppose. I tend to be paranoid anyways.
    Ipsa scientia potestas est

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    Rift Disciple Zephel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kindair View Post
    the multi class system is unique and very interesting. To prevent too many problems, they have locked the souls to archtype only. So a rogue can take a ranger for example, but not a cleric or a druid or a warrior..
    This is very relieving. And with the point limit I can see that you'll probably be dumping most of your points into your primary soul with some secondary abilities from the other two. This in itself pretty much clears my worries.

    As for being paranoid, that's probably why I made this post in the first place. But I'm hoping it clears confusion for others like it did me.

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    Champion Kindair's Avatar
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    Well for the rogue class, which just means mostly physical dps, either with bows and other ranged weapons or with melee weapons.

    They have the option to go the classic rogue way with the nightblade. It has some magic, but we don't know what that magic will do, maybe it's a long cooldown ranged fireball, or it might just be a small in your face fireball, or it might be a proc on the weapon, added dmg. But it's some basic low level magic.

    The rogues can choose to go ranged/pet with the ranger class.

    The rogues can go more melee dps in the face, a bit like sword rogues in WoW, with the blade dancer.

    They can combine all these in one way or another, but not achieve the 51 point abilities. From another post I understood that like WoW, the 31 point abilities are really good and define the class you choose. The options will be plenty and the powerplayers will find a class to exploit certain combinations. That is just inevitable. But the beauty is freedom. The freedom to choose your own path and to not be a powerplayer. My main will probably be a nightblade blade dancer class with most attention on the nightblade as it will make the classic rogue and add some dps from the blade dancer. I won't take the points to go ranged. I will not be the best class to take on a ranged trip and I won't spend the points to be okay.

    my alts will just be fun classes who will probably have the strangest builds ever.

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    Ascendant Liziana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kindair View Post
    Well for the rogue class, which just means mostly physical dps, either with bows and other ranged weapons or with melee weapons.

    They have the option to go the classic rogue way with the nightblade. It has some magic, but we don't know what that magic will do, maybe it's a long cooldown ranged fireball, or it might just be a small in your face fireball, or it might be a proc on the weapon, added dmg. But it's some basic low level magic.

    The rogues can choose to go ranged/pet with the ranger class.

    The rogues can go more melee dps in the face, a bit like sword rogues in WoW, with the blade dancer.

    They can combine all these in one way or another, but not achieve the 51 point abilities. From another post I understood that like WoW, the 31 point abilities are really good and define the class you choose. The options will be plenty and the powerplayers will find a class to exploit certain combinations. That is just inevitable. But the beauty is freedom. The freedom to choose your own path and to not be a powerplayer. My main will probably be a nightblade blade dancer class with most attention on the nightblade as it will make the classic rogue and add some dps from the blade dancer. I won't take the points to go ranged. I will not be the best class to take on a ranged trip and I won't spend the points to be okay.

    my alts will just be fun classes who will probably have the strangest builds ever.
    Like your attitude...that's much what I'm going to do. Ignore "cookie cutter" builds and do my own thing. As there doesn't seem to be a bard (yet) I will mess with my Cleric calling and see what I can pick up from each of the class souls there.
    If you say plz instead of please, I say no because it's shorter than yes.

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    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liziana View Post
    Like your attitude...that's much what I'm going to do. Ignore "cookie cutter" builds and do my own thing. As there doesn't seem to be a bard (yet) I will mess with my Cleric calling and see what I can pick up from each of the class souls there.
    Even cookie cutter builds have to be made calculated and tested atleast a few will have been original. However I do hope we won't see to many coockie cutter builds, aslong as everything is usefull it will be quite diffecult to make these type of "I WIN" setups. Atleast not for PVE.

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

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    Champion of Telara Elth's Avatar
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    So basically what we have are 4 callings.

    In those callings we have 3 or 4 classes with one skill tree.

    Players can only take multiple souls within their calling.

    So what do we have? lets change the words around a little:

    Instead of 4 callings, lets call them classes. And instead of 3 or 4 classes lets call them skill trees (because each only has one skill tree).
    So what we have is, 1 class with 3 or 4 skill trees with a finite number of points. Not to be too negative, i'm just pointint things out. But Age of Conan and World of warcraft are two very similar games that use the 1 class with 3 skill tree formula.

    How is this system any different? to me, they just make it appear different by giving each skill tree a special "class" name. But in reality we just have 4 classes with 3 skill sets.

    Don't jump on this as a flame, this is a legitimate concern that we are being bluffed. I don't like being bluffed.

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    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elth View Post
    So basically what we have are 4 callings.

    In those callings we have 3 or 4 classes with one skill tree.

    Players can only take multiple souls within their calling.

    So what do we have? lets change the words around a little:

    Instead of 4 callings, lets call them classes. And instead of 3 or 4 classes lets call them skill trees (because each only has one skill tree).
    So what we have is, 1 class with 3 or 4 skill trees with a finite number of points. Not to be too negative, i'm just pointint things out. But Age of Conan and World of warcraft are two very similar games that use the 1 class with 3 skill tree formula.

    How is this system any different? to me, they just make it appear different by giving each skill tree a special "class" name. But in reality we just have 4 classes with 3 skill sets.

    Don't jump on this as a flame, this is a legitimate concern that we are being bluffed. I don't like being bluffed.
    It's a fair question and only a designer can really awnser at this point, what I would hope is that the skill tree's are a lot more deverse than just simply taking a new direction into a class like WoW or AoC. Names are names, you can call it multiple classes multiple tree's in the end it's about how deverse each line of abilities is.

    If one skill tree is purely about fire magic (phyro mancer) and the other a necromancer and they both have skills to match then this is more of a class than a skill tree. In the end it's really about how they populate the tree's

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

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    Champion Kindair's Avatar
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    Too early to call them yet, but as I don't know AoC system, I can only comment on WoW's system.

    First, you can choose from at least 4 skill trees, but it seems there are more rare souls still to be found. You are rewarded to go single tree with a 51 point skill. The trees seems to let you play a different game al together, sure WoW had this too, but a rogue is a melee dps class and no matter how much you go through the trees you can't suddenly sing (fine, there are no bards in WoW) or shoot daggers/arrows and make them hurt. Here you can. You can take a pet as a rogue, the last time I played (vanilla wow) there was no such option.

    It's up to the devs how far they use this system, but it has the potential to be bigger and better than the WoW system. Of course they can just slack off now and end up with this system and make you wonder why they even made such a system in the first place if they don't use it's full potential, but that's up to them.

    This has potential for greatness, let's hope they can make potential into product and not end up like Vanguard, full of potential, just no money to make it happen.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Kalbuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kindair View Post
    Too early to call them yet, but as I don't know AoC system, I can only comment on WoW's system.

    First, you can choose from at least 4 skill trees, but it seems there are more rare souls still to be found. You are rewarded to go single tree with a 51 point skill. The trees seems to let you play a different game al together, sure WoW had this too, but a rogue is a melee dps class and no matter how much you go through the trees you can't suddenly sing (fine, there are no bards in WoW) or shoot daggers/arrows and make them hurt. Here you can. You can take a pet as a rogue, the last time I played (vanilla wow) there was no such option.

    It's up to the devs how far they use this system, but it has the potential to be bigger and better than the WoW system. Of course they can just slack off now and end up with this system and make you wonder why they even made such a system in the first place if they don't use it's full potential, but that's up to them.

    This has potential for greatness, let's hope they can make potential into product and not end up like Vanguard, full of potential, just no money to make it happen.
    Lets also not forget that IF expansions or lvl increases hit we might end up with more than 3 soul slots. But only time will tell.

    Regards,
    Kalbuir

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    Prophet of Telara Skythe's Avatar
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    I'm confused.
    IGN:
    And the abilities tied to the souls aren't necessarily your standard archetype skills. What I mean is, if you chose a warrior archetype, you could be forgiven for thinking you'd be limited primarily to melee offense like the Gladiator soul, and highly defensive options like the Reaver. Nope! Certainly, those options are available, but so are souls that aren't traditionally associated with the warrior, such as a spell-thrower.
    Classes page:
    Players choose an Ascended Soul from one of the four callings (Warrior, Cleric, Mage, and Rogue) at character creation. These initial souls, which grow in power as they become more specialized, are flexible and have well-rounded abilities that make them great for both solo and group experiences. Players can later choose to augment, or even replace, embraced souls with other souls from within their calling. The process of enabling souls that players discover in their adventures is called Soul Attunement.
    Can you, or can you not get a soul from a different calling? So much for keeping the 'spirit' of the original class system...
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  13. #13
    Champion of Telara Elth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kindair View Post
    Too early to call them yet, but as I don't know AoC system, I can only comment on WoW's system.

    First, you can choose from at least 4 skill trees, but it seems there are more rare souls still to be found. You are rewarded to go single tree with a 51 point skill. The trees seems to let you play a different game al together, sure WoW had this too, but a rogue is a melee dps class and no matter how much you go through the trees you can't suddenly sing (fine, there are no bards in WoW) or shoot daggers/arrows and make them hurt. Here you can. You can take a pet as a rogue, the last time I played (vanilla wow) there was no such option.

    It's up to the devs how far they use this system, but it has the potential to be bigger and better than the WoW system. Of course they can just slack off now and end up with this system and make you wonder why they even made such a system in the first place if they don't use it's full potential, but that's up to them.

    This has potential for greatness, let's hope they can make potential into product and not end up like Vanguard, full of potential, just no money to make it happen.
    Indeed, I'm glad to hear other thoughts on the matter. I still have a lot of hope for the game and the fact that there will be souls scattered throughout the world that we can uncover and use is a great idea as well. I believe they have great potential here and I have high hopes that it is an interesting system and not just a relabeled copy of older systems.

    I just hope that the Devs stay true to their vision and don't give in by making yet another "wow killer" that falls on its face because it offers nothing new.

    The Lore of this game has me hooked so far, so I am already sold on a 12month subscription when it comes out.

  14. #14
    Champion Kindair's Avatar
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    IGN was so busy trying to find ways to make the game sound more like WoW, they forgot to listen to the details and got some facts wrong/incomplete.

    You can't go outside your calling. If you are a rogue, you can choose ranger, nightblade or blade dancer or the others that are rogue. You can't be a cleric, warrior, reaver, warlock. Those are not available to you, as you can only choose in your own calling. IGN had it wrong and now it's cleared up. Makes it a lot easier to balance.

    This does not mean that there will be no option for rogues to heal or tank or cast fireballs. They just can't be a cleric, warrior or warlock, but maybe there will be a small soul that allows you to cast some small fireballs, or healing from the ranger, or tanking from a monk-like class for example. Never as good as the mains, easier to balance with less class combos to worry about and better for the game.

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    Champion of Telara Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kindair View Post
    This does not mean that there will be no option for rogues to heal or tank or cast fireballs. They just can't be a cleric, warrior or warlock, but maybe there will be a small soul that allows you to cast some small fireballs, or healing from the ranger, or tanking from a monk-like class for example. Never as good as the mains, easier to balance with less class combos to worry about and better for the game.
    I strongly suspect this is why they dropped free-form multiclassing and went with the souls idea.

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