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Thread: Main Tank Questions

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    Telaran Ostgar's Avatar
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    Default Main Tank Questions

    So I plan to main tank 10 man and 20 man and I am interested in the Justicar build I've come up with. Will Justicars have the mitigation required to MT or would I be best off just rolling up a warrior tank?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ostgar View Post
    So I plan to main tank 10 man and 20 man and I am interested in the Justicar build I've come up with. Will Justicars have the mitigation required to MT or would I be best off just rolling up a warrior tank?
    They are listed as being a MT type soul, whether the various tanks are equally viable in end-game content is currently unknown. The upside of choosing warrior is there are 3-4 tank/tanky souls to choose from and build together whereas if Just isn't up to snuff you're stuck with it anyway.
    Last edited by bri bates; 02-24-2011 at 07:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ostgar View Post
    So I plan to main tank 10 man and 20 man and I am interested in the Justicar build I've come up with. Will Justicars have the mitigation required to MT or would I be best off just rolling up a warrior tank?
    It honestly depends what you mean by your question.
    Will a Justicar be capable of being a MT, yes definately.
    Will other players decide they can't, based on zero evidence? Also yes definately.

    Even though Riftstalkers are generally seen as slightly OP when it comes to tanking at the moment, there are still those that won't even let one tank Fae. I have no doubt a cleric tank would face the same problems.

    In conclusion, you will be more than capable of being a main tank, but you may need to prove yourself to idiots, who may not give you the chance to do so.

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    Telaran Ostgar's Avatar
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    That's my big concern - looking to see if the clerics bring specific tanking things that trump what the warriors can bring to the table.

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    Plane Touched Elicas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ostgar View Post
    That's my big concern - looking to see if the clerics bring specific tanking things that trump what the warriors can bring to the table.
    Not as such, the main pulls for Justicar tank's is that they have more self healing than warriors and that, for the lower levels at least, they are viable tanks using a 2hander.

    IF they are still viable with a 2hander at end game, you're going to have an even bigger time persuading people to let you tank.

    If you go mace and board, you'll probably get more groups, but still have trouble persuading some normal pugs that clerics can tank, not just heal.

    To be honest it depends how your playing. I've got a good guild who know that I can tank, therefore i can roll a Justicar without having to worry.
    Eliana - Cleric Tank ~ Elicas - Warrior Tank ~ Elias Rogue Tank ~ Blightweald PvE

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    Champion of Telara
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    having actually played warriors and justicars as tanks i feel i can say that unless trion adds some more taunting skills, the justicar will not be a reliable main tank soul. the class is going to have aggro issues.

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    Telaran hexcaliber's Avatar
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    The simple answer is no, they are not as effective at tanking, as a dedicated melee class.

    This is because as a healer you rely heavily on your mana pool to keep your heals going as the primary means of keeping you in the game. The dedicated warrior tanks do not have this concern, while mana certainly plays a part in using certain abilities, their primary defence is armour, or stat based and will not be affected over a prolonged fight as is the case for a priest tanking the same mobs. Even with a dedicated healer in the group you are still going to suffer in comparison, as you will not have quite the same health buffer and your chain is never going to offer the same dr as plate, making it harder for a dedicated healer to keep you up.

    However, this does not mean it will not work, but it is certainly harder to manage, a number of folks played around with this in beta, and arrived at the same conclusions and this doesn't take aggro management into the equation where priests simply cannot compete.
    Last edited by hexcaliber; 02-24-2011 at 07:29 AM.

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    My 1h+s Justicar tanked RoF and DD with zero problems. Not sure how that will apply to raids, but their +300% agro buff rules.

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    They are listed as a tank, so according to trion they are supposed to be a tank. Meaning if they can not currently tank, they will get buffed.

    However if you really wanted to be 'the tank' id probably go warrior just so you could mix things up now and then with different tank builds.

    Im a rogue, and i am supremely confident in rift stalkers capability to tank, in fact ive tried warrior as well and at least for the lower levels rift stalker is a better tank than warriors are, but its also kind of boring, The class practically tanks for you. If i wanted to be the tank rather than just being able to tank if we needed one, i would go warrior just because being a rift stalker all the time would get boring.

    I imagine its the same for cleric.

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara Fasc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hexcaliber View Post
    The simple answer is no, they are not as effective at tanking, as a dedicated melee class.

    This is because as a healer you rely heavily on your mana pool to keep your heals going as the primary means of keeping you in the game. The dedicated warrior tanks do not have this concern, while mana certainly plays a part in using certain abilities, their primary defence is armour, or stat based and will not be affected over a prolonged fight as is the case for a priest tanking the same mobs. Even with a dedicated healer in the group you are still going to suffer in comparison, as you will not have quite the same health buffer and your chain is never going to offer the same dr as plate, making it harder for a dedicated healer to keep you up.
    I'm not sure where you're getting some of this but a Cleric Tank specced appropriately is going to have stronger than normal Chain for the purpose of raw Armor, and scales directly with Spell Power to feed into Parry and Block, with other things on top of that like 15% damage reduction and procs for bonus Block. They might take a tad more damage than a Warrior, but only because they self-heal a tad more. You used the word Priest in your quote, a Cleric is not a Priest, a Cleric is a Cleric. That means one specced to melee mobs is a melee DPS, and one specced to Tank is a Tank, and so on.

    Mana is hardly an issue for a Justicar Tank given the many ways of recovering mana in that tree, and you aren't actively casting heals on yourself to Tank, you're meleeing the crap out of mobs and from those attacks, you heal yourself and your group.

    However, this does not mean it will not work, but it is certainly harder to manage, a number of folks played around with this in beta, and arrived at the same conclusions and this doesn't take aggro management into the equation where priests simply cannot compete.
    Aggro management as in you're saying a Justicar cannot hold aggro? I'm not sure why that would be the case when they have access to both single and AoE taunts as well as single and AoE target attacks. Between things like Even Justice and all the AoE healing that will happen on literally every Justicar attack they deal, I just don't see anyone having major issues with aggro unless we're talking low levels with bad DPS doing single target damage to the wrong mob. But even then, you merely need lvl18 to access Even Justice with the skill that makes it strike 5 mobs at once.

    With Righteous Mandate tossed on a fellow Tank, a Justicar will be a very useful member to have based on their own merits and the utility they bring. As a Riftstalker Tank I'd be MORE than happy to have my MT/OT be a Justicar, especially with the nice bonus healing skills I get with all the free healing I'd be getting from him/her.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Pure and simple... Yes.

    Why?
    - they have as good if not better threat generation.
    - Their Armor is as nearly good or better (pending spec) of a warrior
    - Self heals
    - AOE/range damage pulls
    - great self sheilds

    Will YOU be able to maint tank better?
    - Depends on your play style
    - Depends on your gear
    - Depends on your group

    If you are not sure go with a warrior (and if you sepc riftblade as a main tank... FAIL!). If you just think you will be shunned because you are a "cleric" archtype. Well just prove them wrong.

    But if you suck, expect never to be grouped again.

    Bad press travels faster and farther than good press.
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  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    I have been looking for tank specs myself as I do love the role. I did find some useful tanking information at
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ion-Discussion

    Looks into a few different specs. I have not put much stock into end game at this time but I am looking at a Paladin/Reaver spec for tanking. But it also is trial and error, some people forget that with a new game things change and everyone is learning. Find a good healer and change up specs to see what fits you most. When the game advances your sure to see more information on endgame specs and maybe you'll have more input yourself. Goodluck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trajaedy View Post
    Pure and simple... Yes.

    Why?
    - they have as good if not better threat generation.
    - Their Armor is as nearly good or better (pending spec) of a warrior
    - Self heals
    - AOE/range damage pulls
    - great self sheilds

    Will YOU be able to maint tank better?
    - Depends on your play style
    - Depends on your gear
    - Depends on your group

    If you are not sure go with a warrior (and if you sepc riftblade as a main tank... FAIL!). If you just think you will be shunned because you are a "cleric" archtype. Well just prove them wrong.

    But if you suck, expect never to be grouped again.

    Bad press travels faster and farther than good press.
    I like how you think... I had no trouble holding threat on anything but major rift conflags with multiple tanks chain taunting until the mobs became immune in ob.

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    Telaran hexcaliber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fasc View Post
    I'm not sure where you're getting some of this but a Cleric Tank specced appropriately is going to have stronger than normal Chain for the purpose of raw Armor, and scales directly with Spell Power to feed into Parry and Block, ***keeping it simple cut***
    As to mana, the justicar can only replenish mana if they lose aggro, with the exception of commitment which regains mana if and when they block. More than once a friend went oom using a priest tank build against invasion bosses spamming attacks and abilities trying to maintain aggro, I have no evidence available so take it for what it is and feel free to try yourself.

    Warrior tanks also have abilities to bolster block, parry, dodge and armour that scale with attack power, combined with the higher base defence of plate, who do you think will come out on top.

    Where are the dedicated priest abilities to immediately force aggro should another player catch an add or go mental in the heat of the moment, such as cracking skulls, judgement, incite and others; they have none, they do have abilities to reduce aggro however. Then add to that the fact that warrior tank classes all generate extra aggro for all their melee attacks, it's part of their role, not an incidental consequence of their actions. In an elemental/pyro build, I could routinely pull aggro from a justicar and would have to bail when he could not get it back.

    I did not say tanking would not be possible as a priest, believe me I had a particular interest in trying a priest tank, but something like a Pally who is designed from the ground up to tank and also gets heals will be there long after the priest has run out of steam. The justicar is designed to stand in the front line with the tanks and other melee dps, not as the constant focus of attention holding aggro, and will most likely prove to be an outstanding off tank. Outside of off tanking, smaller engagements, solo, and general trash mobs it will be fine, but faced with the games tougher challenges (as far as we could test on invasion bosses) I am afraid we found that it would struggle trying to play MT.

    Believe me or not, it matters nought to me, this is not some sort of e-peen or pissing competition, eventually you will find out which class can tank bosses better yourselves. I fully intend to roll one of each class as I am fortunate, and have enough free time to be able to do so, just do not be too unhappy if you do not, and roll a priest with the intention of tanking raids.
    Last edited by hexcaliber; 02-24-2011 at 08:59 AM.

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    Telaran Dreamchaser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hexcaliber View Post
    As to mana, the justicar can only replenish mana if they lose aggro, with the exception of commitment which regains mana if and when they block. More than once a friend went oom using a priest tank build against invasion bosses spamming attacks and abilities trying to maintain aggro, I have no evidence available so take it for what it is and feel free to try yourself.

    Warrior tanks also have abilities to bolster block, parry, dodge and armour that scale with attack power, combined with the higher base defence of plate, who do you think will come out on top.

    Where are the dedicated priest abilities to immediately force aggro should another player catch an add or go mental in the heat of the moment, such as cracking skulls, judgement, incite and others; they have none, they do have abilities to reduce aggro however. Then add to that the fact that warrior tank classes all generate extra aggro for all their melee attacks, it's part of their role, not an incidental consequence of their actions. In an elemental/pyro build, I could routinely pull aggro from a justicar and would have to bail when he could not get it back.

    I did not say tanking would not be possible as a priest, believe me I had a particular interest in trying a priest tank, but something like a Pally who is designed from the ground up to tank and also gets heals will be there long after the priest has run out of steam. The justicar is designed to stand in the front line with the tanks and other melee dps, not as the constant focus of attention holding aggro, and will most likely prove to be an outstanding off tank. Outside of off tanking, smaller engagements, solo, and general trash mobs it will be fine, but faced with the games tougher challenges (as far as we could test on invasion bosses) I am afraid we found that it would struggle trying to play MT.

    Believe me or not, it matters nought to me, this is not some sort of e-peen or pissing competition, eventually you will find out which class can tank bosses better yourselves. I fully intend to roll one of each class as I am fortunate, and have enough free time to be able to do so, just do not be too unhappy if you do not, and roll a priest with the intention of tanking raids.
    You are wrong son.
    Clerics(not priests) have a single target taunt(range 30 m) called Bolt of Radiance which forces the target to attack him for 3 sec.
    And Righteous Imperative which is an aoe taunt, forces up to 10 enemies in a 7m radius to attack the Cleric(not priest).

    Anything else you need to know about the Cleric(not priest)?
    Last edited by Dreamchaser; 02-24-2011 at 09:12 AM.

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