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Thread: It's not NERFING it's FIXING

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default It's not NERFING it's FIXING

    Hi all


    To make this a very short post I just want to voice my opinion about those people who repeatedly cry "Don't NERF my choice of soul". Seriously people! Do you really think Trion nerfs your 'soul' because they find it fun to grief you?

    Come now, grow a brain and adapt to the changes. If something is changed it's because Trion deemed it necessary to do so. I love this game I love the way this game is customizable and how easy it is to shift between roles - it keeps the game refreshing. People that are stuck with one build and never change or adapt are just sad - to you I say: Lighten up, rethink why the change happened and work around!

    I hope Trion is better at withstanding the nonsense of idiots that don't understand how things work and hope they see through the smokescreen those idiots create so they won't end up destroying the game and dumping it down to lowest common denominator like Blizzard did to WoW.


    Thanks.


    PS: Idiots is meant in this way rather than the unconstructive meaning it got in common slang: "An idiot is someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way" - from it's original ancient Greek meaning.

    PPS: Before you flame me my first calling was Cleric, but switching to rogue because I love the Riftstalker tanking style and I love the support role of Bard. Thank you very much. My alt will be a mage!

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    As far as game adjustments are concerned.

    Correcting a bug or error in the game would be fixing.
    Changing something within the game that functions properly and makes it less effective would be nerfing.

    The two are independent of each other, but often coincide.

    Fixing implies it wasn't working. While a nerf doesn't fix anything its just a balancing tool, nerfs can go to far or be to little, where as a fix makes it function properly.

    Although the term nerf has a negative connotation, its not always a bad thing. People will complain about anything that is changed to be less effective, regardless. Complaining about semantics is kind of pointless, nerf is an easy and well understood term to describe the action of lowering the effectiveness.

    We could however start a new term for buffs, Nerfs being... nerfs, Pigskins can be the new buffs... Ok maybe not.
    Last edited by ceba; 02-24-2011 at 12:27 AM.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Hi Ceba


    Thanks for your reply. Regardless what you offer is semantics (much the same I did in my OP). However, the term Nerf is a newly constructed meaning that derives from slang and is not a 'proper' term or verb.

    Therefore I still claim that the original verb 'fixing' is more fitting than nerfing, since what is in effect done is fixing an imbalance in the game design that lead to undesirable behaviour (within the game system) - secondary undesirable behaviour in how the game is played (one class dominating another unintendendly so).

    Anyway - cool points you came up with and I like your constructive tone but alas I do not stand corrected ;)

  4. #4
    Plane Walker ShimmerSniper's Avatar
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    Just because a word is constructed newly does not mean that it does not in fact have meaning. I could easily say that because you didn't write your post in Latin, that your post has no meaning for it formed of a newly constructed language that isn't Latin.

    Ne tamen punctum. Quid est, quod est inter aliquid et aliquid quod nerfed manet.

    Postulat populum Nerfing voco vocare Snarfs es questus ut "Inique" aliquid tunditur Snarf mode. Ergo clamamus pro nerfs donec sua, et dicere experiar classes annotatione. Qui autem carebears uterentur quod got class fixae inutilis factus carebear mode. Snarf All et posse sedere in cacumine quod rideat awesome.

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    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShimmerSniper View Post
    Just because a word is constructed newly does not mean that it does not in fact have meaning. I could easily say that because you didn't write your post in Latin, that your post has no meaning for it formed of a newly constructed language that isn't Latin.

    Ne tamen punctum. Quid est, quod est inter aliquid et aliquid quod nerfed manet.

    Postulat populum Nerfing voco vocare Snarfs es questus ut "Inique" aliquid tunditur Snarf mode. Ergo clamamus pro nerfs donec sua, et dicere experiar classes annotatione. Qui autem carebears uterentur quod got class fixae inutilis factus carebear mode. Snarf All et posse sedere in cacumine quod rideat awesome.
    It still doesn't remove the fact that nerfing is a derogative term that intuitively evokes a negative feeling whereas fixing is more correct and describes what is going on.

    In any case my main point is, that only idiots focus on the nerfing aspect whereas people possessing healthy reason focuses on the fixing aspect of changes.

    Good day to you ShimmerSniper.
    Last edited by Hellgaunt; 02-24-2011 at 12:53 AM.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Balancing is subjective. Two pro players will have a completely different concept of balance then two casual weekend warriors. So when the dev's go to balance something they have to weigh in how it will effect all players. So to say a change in a spell is a fix, is misleading. Where the spell could have been easily delt with on the pro-level and 100% balanced, while being abused in the casual game population and feel way overpowered. A nerf (in common usage for our community) better describes the action better then fixing.

    Now I agree its often overused by those who do not like the change, it does however get the idea across more accurately then fix. A person who disagrees with the change will not think anything was fixed.
    Last edited by ceba; 02-24-2011 at 12:57 AM.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    This is a silly thread really to put up so early, people will always post their concerns about their class, and yes some will do it unconstructively and just as a moan/whinge.

    This is the nature of the game/beast. Posting this kind of thread will not stop people doing it.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker ShimmerSniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceba View Post
    Balancing is subjective. Two pro players will have a completely different concept of balance then two casual weekend warriors. So when the dev's go to balance something they have to weigh in how it will effect all players. So to say a change in a spell is a fix, is misleading. Where the spell could have been easily delt with on the pro-level and 100% balanced, while being abused in the casual game population and feel way overpowered. A nerf (in common usage for our community) better describes the action better then fixing.

    Now I agree its often overused by those who do not like the change, it does however get the idea across more accurately then fix. A person who disagrees with the change will not think anything was fixed.
    Exactly.

    Right now with the sab, there is a lot of "fixes" out there. but pretty much every single one of them is truthfully a nerf, as many would have the unintended side effect of effecting the carebear portion of gameplay to the point that a pure sab would be practically unplayable. (By pure, I mean thats the class I'm focused on. I'm not using sab to say, support my MM with bombs.) but the Snarfs don't care about it.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orko View Post
    This is a silly thread really to put up so early, people will always post their concerns about their class, and yes some will do it unconstructively and just as a moan/whinge.

    This is the nature of the game/beast. Posting this kind of thread will not stop people doing it.
    No it will not, but it is an interesting conversation of how to express the idea of balancing, namely reductions in potency of abilities.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander Revwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orko View Post
    This is the nature of the game/beast. Posting this kind of thread will not stop people doing it.
    Exactly.

    If you're not willing to view the forums and ignore the "wtf guis trion b nerfin mah clazzzz", I'd suggest you don't bother coming onto the forums at all.
    There will always be people that overreact and refuse to live with changes to their class, as there will always be people that accept every change regardless of whether they feel it's right or wrong.

    Unfortunately, the people that overreact make a lot more noise than the people that just get on with it.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker ShimmerSniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revwood View Post
    Exactly.

    If you're not willing to view the forums and ignore the "wtf guis trion b nerfin mah clazzzz", I'd suggest you don't bother coming onto the forums at all.
    There will always be people that overreact and refuse to live with changes to their class, as there will always be people that accept every change regardless of whether they feel it's right or wrong.

    Unfortunately, the people that overreact make a lot more noise than the people that just get on with it.
    I think your comment there needs some fixing though.

    There is always people who overreact and refuse to have anyone beat them, and call for good changes to their class and bad changes to anyone else's, or they are people who refuse to live with changes done to their classes that are truly fixes. Then there are also other people who will live with any change regardless if they feel its right or wrong.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orko View Post
    This is a silly thread really to put up so early, people will always post their concerns about their class, and yes some will do it unconstructively and just as a moan/whinge.

    This is the nature of the game/beast. Posting this kind of thread will not stop people doing it.
    TSK. A semantic discussion is never silly. It may or may not change things - and usually when semantics change anything it's usually a subtle and slow process that you can't point to a place in time when the change happened ;)


    Ceba: I think we can agree to disagree here. I'm advocating that fixing is objective in it's nature, whereas you argue that change is subjective. I'm fairly sure that Trion has an objective motive when they do their change (philosophically any change will be subjective, and naturally they have an opinion on where they want each 'soul' to be). However, it doesn't remove the fact that Trion has an idea with each soul and they make changes within that idea.

    Feeding Trion constructive feedback and provide them with ideas correctly backed up by numbers and arguments are way more constructive towards building a better game than cry "NERF" and moan and ***** because at some subliminal unconscious way you become aware that your idea of the soul clashes with Trion's. That's counterproductive and 'idiotic' (since you can probably find another soul combination that is exactly the playstyle you want).
    Last edited by Hellgaunt; 02-24-2011 at 01:09 AM.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander Revwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShimmerSniper View Post
    I think your comment there needs some fixing though.

    There is always people who overreact and refuse to have anyone beat them, and call for good changes to their class and bad changes to anyone else's, or they are people who refuse to live with changes done to their classes that are truly fixes. Then there are also other people who will live with any change regardless if they feel its right or wrong.

    If you're going to be like that, there are dozens of types of players on this forum.

    And it's more "changing" than "fixing", btw.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker ShimmerSniper's Avatar
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    I was just merely pointing out that for ever person who outrages over changes, there are those who outrage because there is no changes.

    And apparently you didn't see what I did there.

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellgaunt View Post
    TSK. A semantic discussion is never silly. It may or may not change things - and usually when semantics change anything it's usually a subtle and slow process that you can't point to a place in time when the change happened ;)


    Ceba: I think we can agree to disagree here. I'm advocating that fixing is objective in it's nature, whereas you argue that change is subjective. I'm fairly sure that Trion has an objective motive when they do their change (philosophically any change will be subjective, and naturally they have an opinion on where they want each 'soul' to be). However, it doesn't remove the fact that Trion has an idea with each soul and they make changes within that idea.

    Feeding Trion constructive feedback and provide them with ideas correctly backed up by numbers and arguments are way more constructive towards building a better game than cry "NERF" and moan and ***** because at some subliminal unconscious way you become aware that your idea of the soul clashes with Trion's. That's counterproductive and 'idiotic' (since you can probably find another soul combination that is exactly the playstyle you want).
    I can dig that.

    Yea I do not like the "Don't nerf me bro" posts either, and would much rather people put more thought, logic, and reasoning into their posts. Sadly in the internet age, those things are being trolled out of existence.

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