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Thread: First live patch and people start arguing

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Lightbulb First live patch and people start arguing

    We all knew it would come to this. I mean every single mmorpg I betatested got into the same argue!
    Except for screensaver online.... But that doesnt really matter for now.

    But why? I know numbers matter as is mentioned in most of the don't-nerf threads... But seriously. Balancing classes is like the "quest for the holy grail"! What some of you guys don't understand is that not every class can compete in a 1 vs 1 combat, but seriously that is what some of you ask.

    Also don't forget that for each modification to a skill at least 2 major points need to be taken into account:
    -pve (dungeons, rifts, questing)
    -pvp (bg, rifts, ...)

    Also don't forget the attributes

    Even a small change to skill is like a butterfly effect. I mean think about it, a perfect balance will never occur.

  2. #2
    Champion Catskills's Avatar
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    Exactly, as long as people are the "One man all-star teams" the balance will be even more severely ****ed up. They don't understand that MMORPG balance should not be based around individuals.
    Play to Crush.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Trying to balance classes because pvpers cry so much always comes at the expense of the people that enjoy the way the class plays on the pve side of things.

    Worst part is its not the class that needs balancing its the players that are being killed by a better player complaing and asking for a nerf because there is no way someone else is better than them at the game.

    Ive seen players complain so much in the previous mmo i played that they nerfed and nerfed then totaly overhauled a class to try and please the pvpers which ended up making the class boring and underpowered on the pve side of things.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser newwb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mutsop View Post
    We all knew it would come to this. I mean every single mmorpg I betatested got into the same argue!
    Except for screensaver online.... But that doesnt really matter for now.

    But why? I know numbers matter as is mentioned in most of the don't-nerf threads... But seriously. Balancing classes is like the "quest for the holy grail"! What some of you guys don't understand is that not every class can compete in a 1 vs 1 combat, but seriously that is what some of you ask.

    Also don't forget that for each modification to a skill at least 2 major points need to be taken into account:
    -pve (dungeons, rifts, questing)
    -pvp (bg, rifts, ...)

    Also don't forget the attributes

    Even a small change to skill is like a butterfly effect. I mean think about it, a perfect balance will never occur.
    i disagree

  5. #5
    Champion of Telara
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    yup, perfect balance will probably never exist in a game like this. that isn't a good reason to stop trying

  6. #6
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
    Trying to balance classes because pvpers cry so much always comes at the expense of the people that enjoy the way the class plays on the pve side of things.

    Worst part is its not the class that needs balancing its the players that are being killed by a better player complaing and asking for a nerf because there is no way someone else is better than them at the game.

    Ive seen players complain so much in the previous mmo i played that they nerfed and nerfed then totaly overhauled a class to try and please the pvpers which ended up making the class boring and underpowered on the pve side of things.
    ^This x 1000000000000



    seriously, its so damn dumb that most people are too stupid to know they suck, so they think everyone someone someone beats their *** its because the other class is OP not because they suck like a new hoover...

    c
    If you look at the biggest MMO ever it was built on solid PvE, now look at it its gown so far down hill that every little bit of QQ gets a massive change and PvE has been messed up to the point you get rewarded just for walking into the raid.

    To make the game great, you have to have very solid PvE, and just mearly OK PvP, that how blizzard built their empire, now they are simpliy ****ing **** up



    THE FASTEST way to make Rift a flop is do some sort of cross server system for PvE dungeon and to make a small scale PvP arena. To keep the community positive (not nothing but ninja monkeys that think being a ****** is cool) you must keep it on all the same server
    Last edited by Jekyll03; 02-23-2011 at 09:43 AM.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple
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    People often don't understand that balance means losing as well as winning.

  8. #8
    Champion Zizos's Avatar
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    How is it a live patch if the game isn't live yet? Technically there are no patches yet for nerfs or buffs...its all how the game starts and patches after headstart can be called a nerf/buff and im sure there will be complaining there to.

  9. #9
    General of Telara Hawkmoon0028's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
    Trying to balance classes because pvpers cry so much always comes at the expense of the people that enjoy the way the class plays on the pve side of things.

    Worst part is its not the class that needs balancing its the players that are being killed by a better player complaing and asking for a nerf because there is no way someone else is better than them at the game.

    Ive seen players complain so much in the previous mmo i played that they nerfed and nerfed then totaly overhauled a class to try and please the pvpers which ended up making the class boring and underpowered on the pve side of things.
    LOL Guild Wars, anyone? Remember when they split the skill trees for PvP and PvE? Because they had nerfed and buffed and nerfed and buffed and screwed things up totally, trying to get a handle on the in-game economy (FoW/UW speed clears by full assassin teams) and the hideous Zerg builds in HA...

    I was glad to hear RIFT was keeping the skillsets the same for PvE and PvP, and simply adding PvP-only souls.

    Balance needs to be based on the group, not a singular player- because this is an MMO- it's designed for group play, not solo action. Yes, you can probably play solo all the way to endgame, but you can't complain if your class cannot do everything alone- it's not designed to...... in fact, no class is.

  10. #10
    Rift Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
    Trying to balance classes because pvpers cry so much always comes at the expense of the people that enjoy the way the class plays on the pve side of things.

    Worst part is its not the class that needs balancing its the players that are being killed by a better player complaing and asking for a nerf because there is no way someone else is better than them at the game.

    Ive seen players complain so much in the previous mmo i played that they nerfed and nerfed then totaly overhauled a class to try and please the pvpers which ended up making the class boring and underpowered on the pve side of things.
    And people who are just as selfish with always wanting things balanced around PvE are morons who should play a single player rpg. See how stupid the point is? You can do both in this game so it needs to have both parts balanced

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    The problem is that certain classes still have game changing mechanics. Riftblade for instance has Rift Surge, which is a 16 point ability that is far more powerful than most souls 31 point abilities.

    It is a 15 second debuff with a 10 second cooldown, meaning it can be maintained on a target non-stop. Every action (up to 5) that the target initiates will cause them to take direct damage. Even at rank 1, the ability hits for 92 * 5 = 460 and it can crit.

    I don't believe for an instant that pvp should be balanced for 1v1, but I also don't agree that a single class should be able pwn all others 1v1. That leads to flavor of the month and a huge problem with class distribution.

    Trust me, you will see a TON of warriors at release. Everyone wants to be the super-class.

  12. #12
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon0028 View Post
    Balance needs to be based on the group, not a singular player- because this is an MMO- it's designed for group play, not solo action. Yes, you can probably play solo all the way to endgame, but you can't complain if your class cannot do everything alone- it's not designed to...... in fact, no class is.
    i agree, but i think the most aggregious cases of 1v1 imbalance should be fixed, because they end up breaking down group pvp too. the one that comes to the forefront of my mind is the riftblade's rift surge, and i hear some of my rogue friends whispering secretly about the nightblade too.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaiusM View Post
    The problem is that certain classes still have game changing mechanics. Riftblade for instance has Rift Surge, which is a 16 point ability that is far more powerful than most souls 31 point abilities.

    It is a 15 second debuff with a 10 second cooldown, meaning it can be maintained on a target non-stop. Every action (up to 5) that the target initiates will cause them to take direct damage. Even at rank 1, the ability hits for 92 * 5 = 460 and it can crit.

    I don't believe for an instant that pvp should be balanced for 1v1, but I also don't agree that a single class should be able pwn all others 1v1. That leads to flavor of the month and a huge problem with class distribution.

    Trust me, you will see a TON of warriors at release. Everyone wants to be the super-class.
    You are partially right, the problem with riftblade is riftsurge and how potent the ability really is.

    You are wrong in thinking that warriors are the super-class as they currently as less effective tanks than riftstalkers and arguably worse or at least no better than justicars. They cover the least roles in group play and are limited to 1 effect soul for PvP(riftblade) with the alpha changes to voidknight and the domination of ranged combat in PvP from the beta.

    I would be amazed if warriors even come near the number of players found in the rogue calling, they will more likely be around mage or cleric in the number of players.
    Last edited by orakio; 02-23-2011 at 09:59 AM.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple NeoBeo's Avatar
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    all good points.. but think.. i played warrior, and read-non stop on the forums.. about OP blah blah.. and i didn't even try riftblade yet... not my playstyle..

    So tha'ts someones Playstyle.. they get an OP skill.. if you are OBSESSED with having an OP skill then play that... PEOPLE arn't going to just go play "WARRIOR" when they have been casting or dps'ing or healing there whole lives just to try 1 OP skill.

    know who's going to do it? the Usual Tanks. But instead of pally or whatnot there going to try it. But not everyone will.

    And who cares if they do.. both teams have it.

    ok .. Play ball
    Last edited by NeoBeo; 02-23-2011 at 10:02 AM. Reason: spelling.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickled_heretic View Post
    i agree, but i think the most aggregious cases of 1v1 imbalance should be fixed, because they end up breaking down group pvp too. the one that comes to the forefront of my mind is the riftblade's rift surge, and i hear some of my rogue friends whispering secretly about the nightblade too.
    one of the best way to balance PvP is almost a rock paper sicissor fashion...


    having it so that every soul can beat over other soul leads to more imbalance, balancing around people covering others weaknesses with their strengths makes group play work better...



    And IMO PvE should get more attention then PvP, regardless of how you feel 100 times the effort has been put into the PvE world then will ever be put into the PvP side, its just the nature of MMOs, if you balance around the smaller part of the game you just end up with WoW again... and if i wanted to just play wow i wouldn't be playing Rift.

    Like it or not PvEers are what will make or break the game not the PvPers... the PvPers will just be the biggest QQers.

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