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Thread: Trion.. or Adam.. or whoever is deciding this, please stop.

  1. #1
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    Default Trion.. or Adam.. or whoever is deciding this, please stop.

    VOID KNIGHT
    * Singularity: Tooltip now displays the proper durations for each attack point.
    * Quality Care: Will now not trigger off of every tick of a HoT spell, and will not trigger off of Cleric-procced heals.
    * Discharge: Now has a 10 second cooldown.
    * Blood From a Stone: Fixed a bug where this would proc from ranged attacks.
    If this is accurate, stop it.

    Yes, the video we've all seen "****** spec" showed the combination of a no cd Discharge + QC with lots of hots stacked on you is quite OP.

    What you did here is the same **** that was done in WAR in literally EVERY instance that any skill combinations were too strong. You double-nerfed the problem. If gaining pacts very fast caused Discharge to be too strong, the fact that you made pacts MUCH harder to obtain through heals IS ALREADY A NERF TO HOW STRONG DISCHARGE IS. To deal a similar amount of damage, he'd have to gain pacts for 10s anyway. Remaining hopeful, the CD shouldn't be a HUGE deal but it could be, for instance if he spikes someone and then gets FF'ed by lots of magical damage and has enough pacts to finish someone off, but can't because of CD and that gives enough time for his target to be healed. You've gone and gimped the mechanic now.

    Please stop this kind of "balancing."
    Last edited by jMerliN; 02-22-2011 at 11:57 AM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched snubi's Avatar
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    Whine whine whine whine.... srsly stop it. Void knight was op.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched Skaleek's Avatar
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    hes right though, balancing and butchering are two different things. If something has a moment of glory due to a bugged mechanic and wreaks havoc for a beta, does that mean it deserves to be nerfed into oblivion afterwards? I dont play a vk so im not sure how these changes will play out, but the OP is right when he says they nerfed it HARD, sometimes a light touch is better and can be followed by tweaking afterwards, rather than straight up destroying the class.

    Warhammer did do that, and thats why that game has a reputation as being the worst balanced game...ever.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara
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    eh? since when discharge was the mechanic of vk?

    last i've seen they had other ways of spending pcts too. Learn to use them if someone spikes you when your discharge is on cd.

    massive burst damage and very good survivability shouldn't go hand-to-hand as they were before.

    the change was needed.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    nooooooooooooo now that tank spec cant 1 hit everything anymore :< damn

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    Trion has a crapload of logs and statistical data they pour through when evaluating a skill. I will trust Trion in their decision to nerf or buff a skill before I trust a kid on the internet who's only concern is the class he plays.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by corky_aloof View Post
    Trion has a crapload of logs and statistical data they pour through when evaluating a skill. I will trust Trion in their decision to nerf or buff a skill before I trust a kid on the internet who's only concern is the class he plays.
    ^ Yes

    In fact, the devs alluded that they will do their best to not be swayed by whiners. But, we'll see how it plays out. So far, Trion has shown a deeper understanding of MMOs than many other developers (having end game content from the start, etc).

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Seems like a good change to me.. notice i said change and not nerf... the game isnt even live yet, im sure the devs had intentions for each soul and abilities.. if the ability underperforms or exceeds their intentions it gets changed.

    So many personal agendas and ignorance of the big picture on these forums it wouldnt surprise me if the devs quit reading them all together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snubi View Post
    Whine whine whine whine.... srsly stop it. Void knight was op.
    I didn't play VK. I played the class dealing with their insane damage and I had no problems except when 2 of them did it at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by shroudb View Post
    eh? since when discharge was the mechanic of vk?

    last i've seen they had other ways of spending pcts too. Learn to use them if someone spikes you when your discharge is on cd.

    massive burst damage and very good survivability shouldn't go hand-to-hand as they were before.

    the change was needed.
    I can't honestly argue with this statement because it's so devoid of logic. If we put everything on a CD and say "just use your other skills noob" we'd end up with carebears R us with everyone casting a large rotation of skills with no synergy and being completely incapable of reacting.

    It was a primary use of the mechanic; funneling an opponents magic damage into damage dealing abilities back at them. A 10s cooldown is *HUGE* in PvP. That spike damage I could easily heal in about 4s at level 30 (outside of WFs, and he was 37). EASILY. He'd do more dps as a Paragon just running up and smashing 1 button over and over.


    Quote Originally Posted by corky_aloof View Post
    Trion has a crapload of logs and statistical data they pour through when evaluating a skill. I will trust Trion in their decision to nerf or buff a skill before I trust a kid on the internet who's only concern is the class he plays.
    You'd be surprised. Sure they may have logs showing it's doing insane damage and a few YT videos and submissions by Alpha and Beta players showing it's too strong but that doesn't mean removing the synergy between QC and Discharge AND nerfing Discharge into the ground simultaneously is a good solution. It's as if Clerics heal WAY too much so we nerf both the healing amount AND make them cost more mana. It's as if sabos were actually doing too much dps (they weren't/aren't) and we put a CD on the charges AND nerf their detonation effects.

    Double nerfs are bad. A small change goes a very long way, and should be tested in alpha PTS extensively before amped up with a secondary nerf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jankum View Post
    ^ Yes

    In fact, the devs alluded that they will do their best to not be swayed by whiners. But, we'll see how it plays out. So far, Trion has shown a deeper understanding of MMOs than many other developers (having end game content from the start, etc).
    What a fine job Adam did with WAR. You're quite right. A game designed solely for PvP that failed miserably because PvP never achieved a semblance of balance.

    It's not even HS yet, and we don't have much L50 PvP to look at, this game has been designed for PvE through and through with PvP left as an afterthought. It's more complete in that respect than most other MMOs are within months to a year after launch, but as far as PvP is concerned and as far as balancing a PvE game based on PvP to the point of gimping souls against PvE content.. it's been worse than most.
    Last edited by jMerliN; 02-22-2011 at 01:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Skaleek's Avatar
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    I have seen some pretty heavy nerfing on classes all over the board, as well as synergy destroyed in each of the callings, and it worries me, it feels like warhammer all over again, and by the way, a lot of the people who worked on warhammer work on rift.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple zebus's Avatar
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    Since when did MMO players get so dramatic? This game isnt even out yet.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker
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    So far, every time Trion has made changes to a class, people like the OP come in and start crying about how the sky is falling.

    Then of course, we all log in and try the changes .... and we find that it feels about right and Trion was on the ball. The last alpha notes contained TONS of class changes, and I'm not seeing the max exodus of players here yet.

    Every change they have made regarding class balance has been DEAD ON so far. And trust me, if they over weaken something, they will be the first to admit it and bump it up a bit on the next patch.

  13. #13
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    Yeah. They should have done one or the other, not both.

    They probably should have just slapped a cooldown on it, they made pact conversion pretty horrible, im not sure if its even worth using now.

    And whats worse is that even though it takes twice as long to get those pacts now, and discharge is on a cooldown, its still going to hit people for large amounts of damage and kill them, and people are still going to complain bout it on the forums

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryPitbull View Post
    So far, every time Trion has made changes to a class, people like the OP come in and start crying about how the sky is falling.

    Then of course, we all log in and try the changes .... and we find that it feels about right and Trion was on the ball. The last alpha notes contained TONS of class changes, and I'm not seeing the max exodus of players here yet.

    Every change they have made regarding class balance has been DEAD ON so far. And trust me, if they over weaken something, they will be the first to admit it and bump it up a bit on the next patch.
    Dont see a mass exodus of the game but you see mass exodus of a soul. look at all the marksman saying they are now going sab and im sure a ton of VKs will now be playing something else.
    Last edited by jaym7018; 02-22-2011 at 12:59 PM.

  15. #15
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    Not to mention he believes he understands the souls better than the people that created them.

    If you have such a lack of faith in the dev crew wouldnt it be wise to find a different game and not waste time trolling the forums of a game you are sure will fail because you "think" that dev destroyed the last game.

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