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Thread: Since when has it been about the numbers?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Since when has it been about the numbers?

    Something that I noticed while browsing these forums, and indeed it's not limited to this game, but something that seems to have surfaced in the last few years that is troubling me.

    Virtually every post is "Nerf this, X is too powerful, Y is too weak! This soul is better then me in PVP! My soul is broken!"

    Since when has that been what playing a game is about? You pick a role, a character, a playstyle. You want to be that dodgy necromancer, hanging about the graveyards. You like the idea of having an elemental doing your work for you. You might like the idea of being a healer using water, slowly healing over time. You might want to be that angry dwarf, rushing about with a 2h axe. You might want to be the stealthy thief, only looking for his next quick profit.

    The numbers are not important. WHY does class X need to be as powerful as class Y? Endless calls to make everyone exactly the same in survivabilty, damage output, utility etc only serves to make the game boring. You might as well just have one soul then. You should pick the playstyle you enjoy, and screw the numbers. Oh, well that Riftblade gave you a bit of a hiding. Thats what they do. But playing a game like this isn't about picking "the best", its how you do it, not how much.

    Could we not focus more on the souls as a whole, and end this endless circular nerf / buff / broken roundabout?

    Just my 2cp.

  2. #2
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    Yup annoys me too, just pick what you like playing as. Makes me laugh all these angry little wow nerds complaining

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormphoenix View Post
    Something that I noticed while browsing these forums, and indeed it's not limited to this game, but something that seems to have surfaced in the last few years that is troubling me.

    Virtually every post is "Nerf this, X is too powerful, Y is too weak! This soul is better then me in PVP! My soul is broken!"

    Since when has that been what playing a game is about? You pick a role, a character, a playstyle. You want to be that dodgy necromancer, hanging about the graveyards. You like the idea of having an elemental doing your work for you. You might like the idea of being a healer using water, slowly healing over time. You might want to be that angry dwarf, rushing about with a 2h axe. You might want to be the stealthy thief, only looking for his next quick profit.

    The numbers are not important. WHY does class X need to be as powerful as class Y? Endless calls to make everyone exactly the same in survivabilty, damage output, utility etc only serves to make the game boring. You might as well just have one soul then. You should pick the playstyle you enjoy, and screw the numbers. Oh, well that Riftblade gave you a bit of a hiding. Thats what they do. But playing a game like this isn't about picking "the best", its how you do it, not how much.

    Could we not focus more on the souls as a whole, and end this endless circular nerf / buff / broken roundabout?

    Just my 2cp.
    i understand that too many of these kind of posts are annoying but that doesnt mean theyre not true
    the classes do need balancing, whats the point of playing a glass cannon thats missing the cannon
    not all of us are role-players, some of us enjoy pvp and the challenge of battling other players and
    this is ruined when there are some classes that are simply much stronger than others
    it then becomes a game of who picked the better class and not skill

  4. #4
    Rift Master Brizyrr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGooch View Post
    i understand that too many of these kind of posts are annoying but that doesnt mean theyre not true
    the classes do need balancing, whats the point of playing a glass cannon thats missing the cannon
    not all of us are role-players, some of us enjoy pvp and the challenge of battling other players and
    this is ruined when there are some classes that are simply much stronger than others
    it then becomes a game of who picked the better class and not skill
    I'd like to see someone say something that isn't a copy and paste of what everyone else is saying, and come up with a reasonable explanation along with a good idea.

  5. #5
    Alu
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGooch View Post
    i understand that too many of these kind of posts are annoying but that doesnt mean theyre not true
    the classes do need balancing, whats the point of playing a glass cannon thats missing the cannon
    not all of us are role-players, some of us enjoy pvp and the challenge of battling other players and
    this is ruined when there are some classes that are simply much stronger than others
    it then becomes a game of who picked the better class and not skill

    What this guy said. And the fact that these kinds of threads are not new in the last few years as that would imply that this trend started in WoW, and anyone who has played MMO's before WoW came around knows these threads have existed as long as MMO forums have existed.

    I know these kinds of threads existed in games like EQ and FFXI and both have been around longer than WoW has. Maybe it is more noticeable since WoW has a 12mill+ playerbase? Dunno, but these threads are not new in the last few years, like at all.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormphoenix View Post
    Something that I noticed while browsing these forums, and indeed it's not limited to this game, but something that seems to have surfaced in the last few years that is troubling me.

    Virtually every post is "Nerf this, X is too powerful, Y is too weak! This soul is better then me in PVP! My soul is broken!"

    Since when has that been what playing a game is about? You pick a role, a character, a playstyle. You want to be that dodgy necromancer, hanging about the graveyards. You like the idea of having an elemental doing your work for you. You might like the idea of being a healer using water, slowly healing over time. You might want to be that angry dwarf, rushing about with a 2h axe. You might want to be the stealthy thief, only looking for his next quick profit.

    The numbers are not important. WHY does class X need to be as powerful as class Y? Endless calls to make everyone exactly the same in survivabilty, damage output, utility etc only serves to make the game boring. You might as well just have one soul then. You should pick the playstyle you enjoy, and screw the numbers. Oh, well that Riftblade gave you a bit of a hiding. Thats what they do. But playing a game like this isn't about picking "the best", its how you do it, not how much.

    Could we not focus more on the souls as a whole, and end this endless circular nerf / buff / broken roundabout?

    Just my 2cp.

    The fact that the only things in game now-a-days are focused around combat.


    In Rift...

    there is no theivery for a rogue.
    there is no conjuring / teleporting / enchanting for mages.
    There's no RP.
    Etc.


    With a game focused on 95% combat, that's all you get: combat effectiveness.

    It sucks, but classes / characters are really just a vessel for delivering combat.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched Melehan's Avatar
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    Ever since math was invented.

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGooch View Post
    i understand that too many of these kind of posts are annoying but that doesnt mean theyre not true
    the classes do need balancing, whats the point of playing a glass cannon thats missing the cannon
    not all of us are role-players, some of us enjoy pvp and the challenge of battling other players and
    this is ruined when there are some classes that are simply much stronger than others
    it then becomes a game of who picked the better class and not skill
    Trion never said mages were glass cannons.


    I'm so sick of people with their preconceptions.



    Just because a class doesn't function how you think it should, doesn't mean it isn't functioning correctly.



    You might want a mage to be a glass cannon / nuker, but that doesn't mean it is.

  9. #9
    Telaran hexcaliber's Avatar
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    Gaming by its very nature is about competition in one way or another, be that reaching goals set by the designers or ourselves. When that competition involves multiple players against each other, of course there will be concerns that class X may not be competitive, or that one side may have an advantage. The assumption this concern is only recent, is so far off the mark it beggars belief; honest competitors always seek as balanced a playfield as possible and the weak will always look for an unfair advantage, such is human nature and it is as old as competition itself and not something confined to computer games.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hexcaliber View Post
    Gaming by its very nature is about competition in one way or another, be that reaching goals set by the designers or ourselves. When that competition involves multiple players against each other, of course there will be concerns that class X may not be competitive, or that one side may have an advantage. The assumption this concern is only recent, is so far off the mark it beggars belief; honest competitors always seek as balanced a playfield as possible and the weak will always look for an unfair advantage, such is human nature and it is as old as competition itself and not something confined to computer games.
    It's regression.


    Gaming might revolve around competition in general, but MMO's were devoloped to create a world that can be lived in (at least originally).

    The idea that socializing / crafting / exploring / etc. are equal to combat has been lost.


    I'm finding the older I get the less I care about fighting, I'm so sick of fighting, we do it in every MMO and maybe I want to do something else in an MMO and get rewarded for it.


    Think about it.


    ...and I've always loved pvp as well as certain aspects of pve. It's just getting redundant.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melehan View Post
    Ever since math was invented.
    Nerf math, it's too OP.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple darkwarrior42's Avatar
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    Without reading the thread, I'm going to respond to the OP:

    It's about the numbers when I care about doing well. I absolutely play the style I enjoy. In D&D (3.5), I don't go for the absolute min-maxxed character, I start with a character concept I enjoy and that fits well with the game. However, once I've done that, you better believe I maximize my power as much as possible while still staying within my core concept.

    This is an MMO. Role-playing is completely unattached to any mechanics of your character, and your build in no way needs to reflect your role-playing. The builds and abilities are purely about their effectiveness in battle, which comes down to numbers.

    I care about balance because I want to be able to play the character style I favor. I should not have to choose between (just to make up a completely random example) playing a skulking necromancer because it's the style I love, and a stormcaller because they're the ones that are kicking everyone's ***.

    Caring about style is not mutually exclusive with caring about performance.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    I agree with the OP. IMO just because you cant go 1 vs 1 with another player and come out on top doesnt mean the class doesnt have its usefulness. This is why I think there should be a couple of pure pve servers for the people that want to have a unique character that doesnt have to be balanced to be effective. PVP balancing ruins teamwork in a PVE enviroment. Each class uses its unique abilities to help out the group achieve whatever they are doing atm. I do admit some classes need a LITTLE work but every combination of souls Ive tried has its ups and downs.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker Gambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormphoenix View Post
    Something that I noticed while browsing these forums, and indeed it's not limited to this game, but something that seems to have surfaced in the last few years that is troubling me.

    Virtually every post is "Nerf this, X is too powerful, Y is too weak! This soul is better then me in PVP! My soul is broken!"

    Since when has that been what playing a game is about? You pick a role, a character, a playstyle. You want to be that dodgy necromancer, hanging about the graveyards. You like the idea of having an elemental doing your work for you. You might like the idea of being a healer using water, slowly healing over time. You might want to be that angry dwarf, rushing about with a 2h axe. You might want to be the stealthy thief, only looking for his next quick profit.

    The numbers are not important. WHY does class X need to be as powerful as class Y? Endless calls to make everyone exactly the same in survivabilty, damage output, utility etc only serves to make the game boring. You might as well just have one soul then. You should pick the playstyle you enjoy, and screw the numbers. Oh, well that Riftblade gave you a bit of a hiding. Thats what they do. But playing a game like this isn't about picking "the best", its how you do it, not how much.

    Could we not focus more on the souls as a whole, and end this endless circular nerf / buff / broken roundabout?

    Just my 2cp.
    I have to agree a little with this post. Pick your class and play with it. All classes have different abilities and different roles. To many people compare games to other games and class abilities. I played WOW for 4 years or more. I actually only played cause nothing else was really out that interested me until Rift. I did not play vanilla and missed alot of the Blizzard mishaps in the first years, but people have to understand this game is new the support and staff are doing alot and taking alot of imput and making fixes to the game. It is going to continue to get fixed and update after update just like all games go through. I also agree that it is very competitive in playing your class and being the best dps or knowing your class inside out and abilities. I tend to spend alot of time playing with my specs and classes and will do so in Rift trying new things out and rotations. I believe that in time all classes will be fixed and maintain their purpose in the game. As in every game some classes are just better than others in certain things. This is how it is supposed to be though. We all have to live with Bad players in groups and always will. X , Y , Z and the numbers will always continue now that gaming is so competitive everyone wants to be able to play their class they always have played and be able to match or top the dps of the other classes. However with a new game you can't expect everything to be perfect right away it never is. So deal with it. The updates are coming then we can all complain that our servers are down or we have to wait 30 minutes for a patch or more.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junktrunk View Post
    The fact that the only things in game now-a-days are focused around combat.


    In Rift...

    there is no theivery for a rogue.
    there is no conjuring / teleporting / enchanting for mages.
    There's no RP.
    Etc.


    With a game focused on 95% combat, that's all you get: combat effectiveness.

    It sucks, but classes / characters are really just a vessel for delivering combat.
    This is your answer right here ^^

    If Devs would put more focus on creating a virtual world again instead of these 95% combat themeparks we might get a little less whining about class balance on the forums.

    As for Rift, I think people need to stop whining about every soul sucking and get used to the idea that each soul has an intended purpose and the Devs gave you all the tools you need to mix those up to your liking.

    i.e. If your soul is getting stomped in PvP it's probably because that soul wasn't designed for pvp. Try using one that is. If you look over the each souls abilities you will find something that works for you.

    If you can't tank on your riftblade, try using a soul designed for it (pally, reaver, etc...)

    if you can't survive very long on your Assassin, don't whine, spec a few points in rift/BD to get some defense.

    Sure some abilities are bad even at what they are intended for and need a little adjusting, but it's CONSTRUCTIVE feedback is for, massive whining and I quit threads won't fix anything. So skip that ability and pick another (from the hundreds of options we have). It will get fixed eventually.

    I've played all four callings, and they can ALL be good ANY task they were designed to do, if you spec the proper talents.

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