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Thread: Since when has it been about the numbers?

  1. #46
    Telaran Romulus's Avatar
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    I think you've just been reading the wrong threads and raiding/pvping with the wrong people. It is all about the numbers, every game is all about the numbers. Perhaps you/they just don't know how to look at the numbers properly.

    A good raid leader will know what everyone's role in a group is and look at all the data and statistics to determine if they were doing their job. Raw damage output is not the only way to see who's doing what. Lets say you're a bard (just for arguments sake) and you're constantly letting your buffs fall off, you're not spot healing but you have decent damage. You're not doing your job because the damage you do isn't enough to make up for the lost damage and healing from the buff loss. Now a different Bard joins and the buffs are always up, spot healing is performed and there is some damage being done. That Bard is doing a good job. A good raid leader will notice this and won't say anything about their performance.

    What it boils down to is the quality of players you associate with. Bad players will only see damage output, good players will look at everything. It's basically "The Elephant and the Blind Men". You can get a vague idea of what's going on but without looking at the whole picture you can't really make an informed decision.

    Now on the flip side of the coin if you don't care how well your group does and the fun for you is simply to play the game numbers don't/shouldn't matter. If you play the game for the sake of just playing it I have to ask, why do you even care if people analyze the numbers? It won't affect you in any way since you're not a raider or pvper. You shouldn't care if you get a buff or nerf for balance, in fact you shouldn't even notice.

    PvP I can't really comment a lot on cause in all honesty I don't like it and rarely do it. I grant if the game is a PvP centric game you should balance it around PvP, Rift is not one of those games. It's a game centered around PvE and should be balanced accordingly. PvP should be an after thought in regards to balance and numbers issues.

    TL;DR ~ The numbers matter but you are limiting yourself to just one source of information. Look at everything before you judge how someones doing. If performance doesn't matter at all to you then people that like to analyze things shouldn't bother you either.

  2. #47
    Rift Disciple Tunasalad's Avatar
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    Naaaaaaaa, all this just goes back to when people stopped having fun and started treating everything like it's a full time job. I have a full time job thanks, I'm playing a game to chill and have done a good job at other mmos without complaining, fighting or stressing.
    Sin all the way baby!
    It doesn't matter if a Sab can blow me up with 5 charges.... I'll just wait till she/he's low on health and cut that player up from behind without mercy.
    Now, that's fun without stressin about numbers, see?

  3. #48
    Shield of Telara Kanabull's Avatar
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    Default Pyromancer

    Quote Originally Posted by Junktrunk View Post
    Trion never said mages were glass cannons.


    I'm so sick of people with their preconceptions.



    Just because a class doesn't function how you think it should, doesn't mean it isn't functioning correctly.



    You might want a mage to be a glass cannon / nuker, but that doesn't mean it is.
    Pyromancer:

    Pyromancers are destructive mages whose sole focus is the mastery of fire, from launching massive incinerating blasts, to trapping their opponents behind a smoldering wall of flame. No other Ascended can match the sheer destruction at the Pyromancer’s fingertips.

    To bad plate wearers can do more damage with and insta cast than i can with a 2 sec cast...just sayin...

  4. #49
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junktrunk View Post
    Failing a recipe is more expensive then a repair and crafters do it far more often, especially in the crafter equivalent high end content.

    Nothing to do with mobs or combat, which is my point.
    I'd like a link stating that you can "fail" recipe's in Rift. I can't see that as being something they would do.
    Edit: At least not in the sense that you would lose your materials.
    Last edited by Mystryl; 02-22-2011 at 10:49 PM.

  5. #50
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormphoenix View Post
    Something that I noticed while browsing these forums, and indeed it's not limited to this game, but something that seems to have surfaced in the last few years that is troubling me.

    Since when has that been what playing a game is about? You pick a role, a character, a playstyle. You want to be that dodgy necromancer, hanging about the graveyards. You like the idea of having an elemental doing your work for you. You might like the idea of being a healer using water, slowly healing over time. You might want to be that angry dwarf, rushing about with a 2h axe. You might want to be the stealthy thief, only looking for his next quick profit.
    It's important for those of us who plan on doing straight-PvP. Myself, and a slew of other people I've played with in other games (EQ1, GW, WAR, WoW), are PvP'ers, and all we care about are getting the best advantage we can, even if it means having to re-spec 100 times to increase our crit-chance by 2%.

    For us, it's a game of Chess, with multiple players and a complex set of rules. Since this game happens to be built in the spirit of PvP, all we care about is statistical chance, stat-weighted-RNGs and our base stats.

    What I find pleasure in is running exotic builds in games. Until I heard about this game, I was running really exotic 10-man PvP matches in WoW's rated battlegrounds, testing out non-cookie-cutter team compositions, with players who I knew were team-player's and the Michael Jordan's of their class.

    It's always about the numbers and compositions.

    As you can tell, I don't give a flying-**** about RP =D
    Last edited by Lovemaker; 02-22-2011 at 11:13 PM.

  6. #51
    Plane Walker
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    To answer your question : "Since when has it been about the numbers?" I know the exact answer to this :

    Since battlegrounds and Arena type PVP was introduced.

    ^^^^^^^^
    This is a fact

  7. #52
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junktrunk View Post
    The fact that the only things in game now-a-days are focused around combat.


    In Rift...

    there is no theivery for a rogue.
    there is no conjuring / teleporting / enchanting for mages.
    There's no RP.
    Etc.


    With a game focused on 95% combat, that's all you get: combat effectiveness.

    It sucks, but classes / characters are really just a vessel for delivering combat.
    Well said

    Even so as the first poster mentioned, you'll find this in every single decent mmorpg.
    Problem is: some players put alot of effort in levelling a character. When that class gets nerfed, it's a pain in the ***.

  8. #53
    Soulwalker
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    The problem is simply that of playstyle.

    There has never been a time when some players have not been all about min/maxing (which means being all about the numbers). From the early days of original Dungeons and Dragons, "powergamers," "munchkins," "min/maxers," etc. have existed (though all these fancy names and subdivisions came later).

    I know that most who have been in the MMO community for any real length of time have encountered the Bartle theory on gameplay styles, but these don't really help put conflicts along the lines of "number crunchers vs. role players" into perspective.

    For that, there is a very interesting and heavily quoted and invoked PnP theory called GNS. I'm sure many MMOers have seen this as well, but from what I have encountered, far fewer have encountered this theory compared to Bartle's.

    If you look at this theory, you will find different gaming "personalities." These can end up in conflict with one another, because each sees the game as representing/providing a different experience.

    The truth is that people come at games from different angles, and as a result form different gaming subcultures. Simply because one person loves crunching numbers does not make another who would rather role play, or be forced to drink and eat in game to stay alive, at all superior...just different.

    Honestly, I feel that every one of these GNS subcultures (as they translate into the medium of MMOs) has a valid and compelling reason to play games. I think that if everyone just gave the other perspectives half a chance, they might at least be able to see the merit in those playstyles.
    Last edited by Paile; 02-23-2011 at 01:37 AM.

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